Special Hobby 1:72 Mirage F.1B numéro 505

[Mountain goat]

Thanks guys! Nice to know you appreciate it.

Which/whose seats are you going to use? I was thinking MB Mk.4's would be appropriate for that time frame (although I don't know whether the F.1B's got Mk10's).

Wez

Wez, thank you - about the seats, I actually thought all F.1Bs were delivered with Mk10s and never had the Mk4, so that for a time two different seats were used within the units that flew both C and B; at least that's what I remember reading somewhere - have to look it up again. From older photos the seats indeed appear to be Mk10s but I'd be happily proven wrong.

Great job !!!

And if you want, you can improve this F1B without aftermarkets :

- the grid just behind the cockpit on the port side has to be erased
- the scoops just below of the leading edge of the wings should be grids in two-seater version
- fill the four holes just below the canopy on the starboard side : they are supposedly for ladders, but, it should be only on port side !
- panels on the backbone, just behind the rear canopy, are false... they could be re-engraved...

There is some panelings issues also under the belly, but finally, no one will see !

Hi, big cheers for that! You're right on time because I'm just finishing the exterior. What do you mean with the panels behind the rear canopy - you mean the circa two cm behind the cockpit, or even further back? I'm looking up some drawings to check. Funnily enough I did wonder about a few things on the belly but decided to leave it as is -as you say, who's going to notice. The scoops on the fuselage under the wing - completely forgotten about that! The grids are going to be minuscule in 1/72 so maybe I'm going to use a decal for that, or draw it on with a pencil.

Edit: I think I know what you mean with the panel behind the canopy. There is a one-piece maintenance panel on the real one, where the model has two smaller ones. Am I correct?

Jay

Edited July 17, 2016 by Mountain goat

[Wez]

Great job !!!

And if you want, you can improve this F1B without aftermarkets :

- the grid just behind the cockpit on the port side has to be erased

- the scoops just below of the leading edge of the wings should be grids in two-seater version

- fill the four holes just below the canopy on the starboard side : they are supposedly for ladders, but, it should be only on port side !

- panels on the backbone, just behind the rear canopy, are false... they could be re-engraved...

There is some panelings issues also under the belly, but finally, no one will see !

Good information but a small request - Pictures please!!!

Thanks guys! Nice to know you appreciate it.

Wez, thank you - about the seats, I actually thought all F.1Bs were delivered with Mk10s and never had the Mk4, so that for a time two different seats were used within the units that flew both C and B; at least that's what I remember reading somewhere - have to look it up again. From older photos the seats indeed appear to be Mk10s but I'd be happily proven wrong.

Hi, big cheers for that! You're right on time because I'm just finishing the exterior. What do you mean with the panels behind the rear canopy - you mean the circa two cm behind the cockpit, or even further back? I'm looking up some drawings to check. Funnily enough I did wonder about a few things on the belly but decided to leave it as is -as you say, who's going to notice. The scoops on the fuselage under the wing - completely forgotten about that! The grids are going to be minuscule in 1/72 so maybe I'm going to use a decal for that, or draw it on with a pencil.

Edit: I think I know what you mean with the panel behind the canopy. There is a one-piece maintenance panel on the real one, where the model has two smaller ones. Am I correct?

Jay

Jay,

I'm not at all sure about the seats myself, I know the earlier F.1C's were delivered with Mk.4's and later aircraft Mk.10's which eventually replaced the Mk.4's at least in French service - I really don't have a clue about export aircraft, but, I assumed that F.1B's were similarly equipped to the single seaters, but I too am happy to be proven wrong.

I shall be watching what you do regarding the panelling and making notes for my own builds, hopefully Eclipse will come up with some pictures to show us what he means... ...no pressure Mr Eclipse

Edited July 17, 2016 by Wez

[Mountain goat]

(See this post further on for an update on these pics.)

So I think what Eclipse means regarding 'panels on the backbone, just behind the rear canopy, are false... they could be re-engraved...' is seen below. In addition, the kit on the left-hand side also has a small grille above the frangible rescue window where the big 'Sauvetage' arrow points to - that shouldn't be there, it's only present on the right-hand side.

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Furthermore: 'the scoops just below of the leading edge of the wings should be grids in two-seater version':

An the ladder attachment points:

Fair use of photos by Rafju, see http://www.master194.com/photo_avion/mirage-f1b/index.htm for more.

Jay

Edited July 21, 2016 by Mountain goat

[eclipse]

Well, about seats, the first two-seater Mirage F1 was Mirage F1BK for Kuwait, prototype was equipped with Mk.6, but after that, except for ecuadorian and libyan two-seaters, Mk.10 was used. No Mk.4 at all !

Pictures please!!!

OK !

- the grid just behind the cockpit on the port side has to be erased

starboard side : grid !

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tony-roch/6172414594/sizes/l

port side : no grid !!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/antoniozamora/9887456726/sizes/l

- the scoops just below of the leading edge of the wings should be grids in two-seater version

single seater (here in spanish version) :

http://hunavia.freeweb.hu/AIRSHOW/KE2010/MirageF1Kecskemt2010/photos/photo82.jpg

two-seater :

http://www.master194.com/photo_avion/mirage-f1b/pages/cimg4804_jpg.htm

- fill the four holes just below the canopy on the starboard side : they are supposedly for ladders, but, it should be only on port side !

port side, four holes :

http://www.master194.com/photo_avion/mirage-f1b/pages/cimg4796_jpg.htm

Here with ladders !

http://www.hottail.nl/basevisits/2005/0611-Cazaux/Images/France-Other/MirageF1B-33FS-509-1.jpg

starboard side, no holes !

http://www.hottail.nl/basevisits/2004/0629-EuropeanTrainersMeet/Images/MirF1-FAF-cs-cockpit.jpg

There is a one-piece maintenance panel on the real one, where the model has two smaller ones. Am I correct?

Yes !

- panels on the backbone, just behind the rear canopy, are false... they could be re-engraved...

hard to find...

https://d31asmy75eposw.cloudfront.net/full/4/16885_1379782127.jpg

https://www.flickr.com/photos/antoniozamora/9819328804/sizes/o/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/126023802@N05/14630636305/sizes/o/

(with some distortion... Mirage F1 in the foreground - with red stripes on the tail fin is a two-seater)

http://img.over-blog-kiwi.com/0/64/42/44/20160624/ob_a5eae8_2015-asap-075-001-016.jpg

http://www.fox-two.com/plans-im/53-mirageF1B-02.jpg

Hope this is helpful... !

[Mountain goat]

Thank you Eclipse! Very helpful indeed. I had taken the liberty meanwhile to play a little with red lines - the extra info is more than welcome!

As regards the holes on the starboard/ right-hand side: to avoid confusion (or perhaps to add to it) there is a fifth hole very close to the rear canopy sill that should be left untouched, it's basically the rearmost one - as that is seen on the real aircraft as well. Not sure of its function, but there you go.

Jay

[eclipse]

hmm, please use another red line, I'm not sure to understand what you're talking about...

Unless, you mean port side, the same side of ladders ! Where just up of the first two holes, and just rear of the two last, there are indeed two different holes. They are a kind of key holes in order to manually lock or unlock canopies but it's not an emergency procedure...

Edited July 18, 2016 by eclipse

[Mountain goat]

hmm, please use another red line, I'm not sure to understand what you're talking about...

Unless, you mean port side, the same side of ladders ! Where just up of the first two holes, and just rear of the two last, there are indeed two different holes. They are a kind of key holes in order manually to unlock canopies and open them simply from outside by lifting them ...

I meant the red lines in the photos above your post.

So it's a key hole - good to know.

it's basically the rearmost [hole]. Not sure of its function, but there you go

*sigh* did I actually write that...

(insert Beavis & Butt head jokes here)

Jay

Edited July 18, 2016 by Mountain goat

[eclipse]

to be sure we are talking about the same thing... "key holes" are those one ! J-_-

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b544/sechen/mf1b_zpsggjbxy4p.jpg~original

And, by the way, concerning panels : look at the one just below the white and red ejection seat triangle, they are differents on each side, but Special hobby represents them similar...

[exdraken]

nice start!

[Wez]

Eclipse and Jay,

Thank you very much, very, very useful indeed.

[mirageiv]

Lovely work so far Jay, will be very interested in how you go about this kit and look for tips for when I build mine. Looking at the previous page it seems they nailed the subtle shapes to my eyes, really nicely done . This should be of great use when I get round to my Qatar F.1B!

David.

Edited July 18, 2016 by mirageiv

[PaulT 876]

Hi Jay

You also have to remove the wing lights that are on the kit . 506 did not have that mod in 1984 you have to have the ones that are in the wing the 1st ones. I think the kit says remove for one of the options in the kit you do the same.

Have a close look at the wing tips in the photos you can not see the new lights.

The seats are the type 10 seats not the type 4,s.

An they have missed the large panel that is raised on both sides at the rear they have done the other 3 the smaller ones but missed the largest one ??.

I have loads of close ups photos of F1's when I get time I will post a photo to show how it is on the real a/c.

The kit is nice I have a few copies, the best bit of these kits is the amount of spare stuff you get, all good for the other F1,s kits to use on You also get the Spanish ecm pod as well in the kit.

If you need any help with photos email me and I will see what I have, I aim just sorting all these out just now so I can put them on a tablet I have just got so I can take them to shows a lot better than taking loads of photo albums.

Good luck

Paul

[Mountain goat]

Hi all, thanks for all the replies, I'll answer them later on, but now I'm having a bit of a fight with the front windscreen - doesn't fit basically: maybe because of its thickness, I'm not sure.

To be continued! With pics obvs.

Jay

[Mountain goat]

From all your superb input, I've made a few visual references for myself on what needs to be modified for an earlier F.1B (circa 1984) - in the process updating the pictures I posted earlier. Hope this helps others! Note: Some modifications are required for the kit to make it accurate for any F.1B - some changes however are dependent on the period of your subject - both will be differentiated.

Thanks to ECLIPSE and PaulT 876 for their priceless suggestions.

Modifications for very early Mirage F.1B (up to late eighties):

Modifications for Mirage F.1B regardless of period:

Jay

PS Fair use of photos on escradrilles.org and photos by Rafju on http://www.master194.com/photo_avion/mirage-f1b/index.htm.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Mountain goat

[jrlx]

Hi Jay,

Thanks a lot for summing up all the photo references and the corrections needed. Very useful!

Cheers

Jaime

[PaulT 876]

Hi Jay
Have a look at the photos in the walk round 4806 4807 4811 http://www.master194...e-f1b/index.htm the panel with the roundel on it is not flush fit it is a service panel. there are 4 on each side all size's like this they have missed the largest one done the rest all F1's have this.

Also note not all F1's have the police light on the R/H intake, Most of the early ones do not and a lot of the B's are the same see photos above as 507 the a/c in the walk round dose not have it and 30-MM dose not and 506 is the same form the photos I can see.

Hope this helps

Paul

Edited July 19, 2016 by PaulT 876

[eclipse]

Good idea to summarize the most visible things to fix on this model !

In that case, maybe I can add this one :

The little air intake and the grid just below the tailfin on the starboard side should be erased too !

Visible here, as on the SH model, but not present on your Mirage F1B in 1980s.

source : http://www.master194.com/photo_avion/mirage-f1b/index.htm

[eclipse]

The light on the starboard side air intake is an IFR light, so that, every version of Mirage F1 IFR capable is equipped with.

For example :

Mirage F1EE, IFR probe, then light !

https://www.flickr.com/photos/joseluiscel/9128736391/sizes/l

Mirage F1CE, no IFR probe, no light !!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/marcburgueros/6336922411/sizes/l

Mirage F1B is not capable of IFR, then, no light.

[Mountain goat]

Hi Jay

Have a look at the photos in the walk round 4806 4807 4811 http://www.master194...e-f1b/index.htm the panel with the roundel on it is not flush fit it is a service panel. there are 4 on each side all size's like this they have missed the largest one done the rest all F1's have this.

Cheers - I've updated my earlier post with an overview of the modifications.

Jay

[Wez]

A big thanks from me to all who've contributed to this thread, with all the reference pictures and Jay's build of the SH kit this is rapidly becoming a reference thread in its own right.

Hopefully will be of great benefit to participants in the Mirage GB for 2017 if it gets through the poll!

[Mountain goat]

Good idea to summarize the most visible things to fix on this model !

In that case, maybe I can add this one :

The little air intake and the grid just below the tailfin on the starboard side should be erased too !

Visible here, as on the SH model, but not present on your Mirage F1B in 1980s.

source : http://www.master194.com/photo_avion/mirage-f1b/index.htm

Thank you once again Eclipse - very helpful!!

Jay

[Mountain goat]

Hi!

Some further updates - not a lot unfortunately, as the assembly of the windscreen took much more time than anticipated, also due to a heatwave, ergo sweaty hands, productivity has been rather prohibited. Then again, immediately after I write this, the painting stage will have been begun so at least that feels something like real progress.

Ok, first, the several panels that need filling and rescribing, as per the suggestions by Eclipse and PaulT. Most visible and therefore a minimum modification in my opinion is the incorrect panelling of the kit. Special Hobby has two distinct panels on top of the spine, although in reality F.1Bs had one big electronics access hatch behing the rear cockpit. The two panels need to be filled.

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A simple straight panel line needs to rescribed across the spine.



The wing lights need to removed for the specific period of my project.



The access panel on the rear fuselage needs to be raised. I have solved this thus - using paper-thin plasticard I cut two panel-sized and -shaped rectangles…



…and using a thin layer of Tamiya Cement secured them over the offending panel. Note: PVA glue might be better because the Tamiya bit into the plastic a little.



For the landing light I used a little aluminium tape and attached the transparent piece over it.



On to the canopy. The central section fits like a glove - but the windscreen behaves exactly like its rear friend will not. A few very small thing are at fault. First, the fairing that blends the front of the windscreen with the fuselage is too small for the windscreen to fit into.

From: http://www.master194.com/photo_avion/mirage-f1b/index.htm

Also the contour of the front of the windscreen doesn’t quite correspond with the grey plastic - although the contour of the bottom of the part should in theory fit the nose section very well.

Then there is also the thickness of the windscreen, which doesn’t allow for any wriggle room and basically butts against the instrument panel coaming when installed. I tried to solve the issue with the nose-windscreen fairing with putty - and the result at first looks like a right mess, but when held against the light it looks acceptably smooth. I’m far from satisfied with the windscreen area as a whole though. But for now it’s all I can think of. Glue used was Tamiya Cement (great for transparencies and it doesn’t mist!) and after setting a bit I used some CA glue that’s been de-misted (drop of the stuff on a carrier, let it settle for about 15 mins, wait until matt white misting has formed around the drop, then it can be cautiously used preferably only on corners of the canopy -without much danger of misting)



The inside of the windscreen and mid section were brush painted using Vallejo without masking.

In the mean time - Ready to airbrush!



First I’ll paint the landing gear bays Vallejo Metal: Aluminium, block them off with styrofoam, then use Surfacer 1000 as a primer for the rest. Then I am going to mix a home brew for the Gris Bleu using Tamiya Acrylics and perhaps whatever else I can use. I’ll note down the ratios, just in case they’re of use. Lastly I will use Vallejo Metal: Dull Aluminium 77.717 for the undersurfaces which is an exact match for the paint used on the real thing.

Thanks for checking in!

Jay

Edited August 1, 2016 by Mountain goat

[eclipse]

It will be a very nice Mirage F1B !!!

A question : how will you paint the navigation lights, now that the missile launchers are glued ?

[Mountain goat]

Thank you eclipse!

A question : how will you paint the navigation lights, now that the missile launchers are glued ?

I think I'll paint it black, the two small white dots in the middle of the black field, on top and below, then clear gloss red and green over it all. I could have made two transparencies there, but I wanted to move on as well. Compromises, compromises.

In the mean while (day off today, so I can get some stuff done) I've sprayed the model with Mr Surfacer. There are still a couple of things that need some extra filling and smoothing and rescribing, but on the whole I can live with it. Here the windscreen up close. I am not satisfied with how the fairing now continues forward too much. But it's no deal breaker.

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Here with the drop tanks under the wings. They're done too. Forgot to mention that.

Oh, I forgot to add in my to do-list posted above - I will add some rivets here and there as there were quite visible in the real aircraft.

Jay

Edited July 21, 2016 by Mountain goat

[eclipse]

I think I'll paint it black, the two small white dots in the middle of the black field, on top and below, then clear gloss red and green over it all. I could have made two transparencies there, but I wanted to move on as well. Compromises, compromises.

I mean, and the missile launchers in the wing tips won't hinder you ?