1/72 Buchon

[bobfan40]

Ok for starters I'm not the best modeller maker in the world mostly doing airfix kits, but after a 15 year break from it I've started building again and to my surprise most of my humbrol paints have stayed good. Since my long break I've built a couple of airfix Spitfires and a 109e. But I'm pushing the boat out now and am building a buchon battle of Britain film style. I'll keep a blog on the progress. But my question is what colou rs are best used for the camouflage? And are the transfers from special hobbys any good

Cheers

Steve

[Truro Model Builder]

In the Humbrol range:

RLM02 -no.31 or 240

RLM04 -no.24

RLM65 -no.65

RLM71 -no.116 or 242

Special Hobby decals are printed by Aviprint, and tend to be quite good generally.

[Black Knight]

Depends on whether you want to be accurate to the film or the Luftwaffe

Above are good. add to that RLM 70 = Humbrol 91

[bobfan40]

I want to paint to correct to the 69 film colour scheme

[Boffin79]

I had the same challenge a while back, and my conclusion was that both the Buchons and the CASA 2.111s most likely were painted in the same colour scheme; i.e. RLM 70/71/65, although the RLM 71 was a relatively light version compared to more recent renditions of the colour. My guess is that the movie makers relied on the Ries interpretations of the RLM colours from 1963 (http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/luftwaffe/colors.html), which has a relatively light RLM71, almost approaching a dark RLM 02.

Can't remember the exact mix I went for, but I suspect that Tamiya's recommendation of XF62 + XF49 1:1 might be close enough. If you prefer using Humbrol, I would probably look into mixing 242 and 240.

Cheers,

Chris

[bobfan40]

Cheers Chris,

Does anyone know if anyone on the market does any other transfers for Buchons for the '69 film Battle of Britain, and also I'd like to build I'm guessing MkIX Spitfires Michael Cane and Christopher Plummer were in, in the film. Again any info on the Cane Plummer Spits? and where to get the tranfers?

[Work In Progress]

The only Battle of Britain movie Spitfire decals I know of are the set done by Fundekals for MH434, the aircraft flown by the Robert Shaw character.

http://www.fundekals.com/MH434_Spitfire.html

The only B of B movie Buchon decals I know are the kit ones for the Hobbycraft / Academy kit in 1/48. You best bet would probably to get hold of that and scan them at high resolution to print in a reduced scale onto white decal sheet

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/171753-hobbycraft-hc1523-hispano-civilschmitt

It appears that the same markings are also supplied in at least one of the Academy boxings:

http://www.internetmodeler.com/2004/november/first-looks/academy_ha1112.php

Edited May 21, 2016 by Work In Progress

[rav]

Two "Battle of Britain" movie Buchons in 1/72:

Classic Plane

Special Hobby

Edited May 21, 2016 by rav

[Work In Progress]

Hooray, and as I belatedly note that the original post mentions Special Hobby (I should have thought about that harder) then I imagine that's the kit Steve is building.

Yes, Special Hobby decals are generally fine, though bear in mind that if you've only done Airfix then they are likely to be thinner and more delicate, but give a superior result. Make sure you have your model nice and glossy before decal application.

[Graham Boak]

By the time of the Battle of Britain few if any Bf109s retained the low-contrast 70/71 colour combination. The majority would carry 71/02 (or perhaps 70/02) so I suggest that this was what the film aircraft were intended to match.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Graham Boak

[bobfan40]

Cheers guys, all good stuff. Going back to the Cane, Plummmer Spitfires does anyone know of any company that does transfers on a sheet where i can mix and match letters so to get a closer match to what I want to do. I've also got a 1:72 AZ Sliver Model of a MkIX twin seater which I want to build up as the Grace Spitfire, but again no idea where to get the transefers even if its a mix and match sheet

[Work In Progress]

The squadron codes used for the Spitfires in the film were in incorrect high-contrast easy-to-film white rather than correct harder-to-film medium sea grey, so they're not the necessarily sort of thing that crops up from the usual sources. However, if you are lucky they are straight-edge letters that you can easily make out of slices of solid white decal film.

To avoid us all from having to watch the whole film, what the the actual squadron codes you want to reproduce for the two actors' Spitfires?

There are these sheets but I suspect these are a later letter style, however they bay be near enough for you for the specific letters you require. I'm not sure what size you want but you can scale off the Fundekals sheet, which in any case I strongly recommend you buy as it gives you almost everything you need including the too-bright roundels used in the film. You should also, if you have not already, read Jennings Heilig's commentary on the markings used on the movie Spitfires which you will find here:

http://www.hyperscale.com/2011/reviews/decals/jenningsbobdecalpreview_.htm

This is the same sheet as the Fundekals sheet.

Serial numbers for other Spitfires will be easily enough derived from normal 1/72 8-inch black serial sheets such as this:

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/AOD72C05

As for doing other Spitfires out of generic sheets then a bit of searching onHannants will generally throw up the options you will need: just select the styles and sizes appropriate to your references for the individual aircraft you are modelling.

e.g. Lettering and numbers:

https://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?scale_id=956&search_direction=asc&search=letters&product_type_id=2677

Roundels and fin flashes:

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X72044

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X72044

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/TM72022

Be aware that the Techmod stuff can be very thin and a bit fragile.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Work In Progress

[Yankymodeler]

A couple of years ago (has it been that long already!?!) I finally go to building a series of models of the Battle of Britain movie stars. A favorite movie of mine since I was a child, I enjoyed the research as much as the construction of the models. My interpretations are simply my own and I do not claim to be an expert on the film by any stretch of the imagination.

I think that the 'Messers' as the Spanish called the HA-1112s were painted in a green/grey over light blue scheme while the CASAs 2.111s wore dark and light green over light blue.

Spitfires and Hurricanes were painted in a green and earth scheme that looked to be a very close match to RAF colors with very pale blue undersides, not quite in keeping with the accepted practices of the time period but a reasonable compromise for the movie.

To me, the colors used in the film were fairly close to what is generally accepted as historically correct, though not exact matches. I'm one who believes there are commonly quite some variation in colors and application so 'close' is about as good as we can reasonably expect in reproducing anything and even that opinion is subject to discussion!

The schemes, both color and patterns were kept as consistent as possible on each type to allow individual markings to be changed to meet filming needs. Clips filmed of different aircraft that had been marked with the same individual markings could be spliced together into a single scene.

The individual markings can be easily pieced together, the numbers and letters being pretty standard.

Anyway before I ramble on for too long, I'll post a couple of links to WIP postings. I hope they might be of help in your project, looking forward to seeing your progress!

Eric aka The Yankymodeler

HA-1112s

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/57379-hispano-ha-1112s-bob-movie-messrs/?hl=yankymodeler#entry618937

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/61044-hispano-ha-1112s/?hl=yankymodeler#entry661338

CASA 2.111

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/78051-casa-2111-18june12-final-update-before-completion/?hl=yankymodeler#entry879120

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234921171-casa-2111-at-the-ipms-2012-national-convention/?hl=yankymodeler

Spitfires and Hurricanes

WIP seem to missing but here's the RFI

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/71243-hurricane-and-spitfire-movie-stars/?hl=yankymodeler#entry785187

Edited May 22, 2016 by Yankymodeler

[bobfan40]

Eric this is Brilliant stuff!! As a kid I used to watch the Battle of Britain film that much that even now at the age of 30 I still know the dialogue almost word for word, and still enjoy watching it (probably watch it just once a year now just to keep a smile on my face)

I love the Buchon's there not 109's as such (well 109G with RR engines) I know so its just a movie prop I suppose you could say to make best they could with looking like an 109 Emil. But somehow the Buchon looks more aggressive and even more of a tough fighter with that 4 prop and RR engine, with a cheeky shark smile vent. Does anyone know are there any other noticeable differences between the Buchon 3 Prop, and the Buchon 4 Prop used in the film? There used to be a conversion kit some chap used to sell on Ebay for 1:72 and it featured some different bits for the 3 to the 4 prop, I never got hold of. Is the just for when the Buchon was a Spanish fighter and no relevance for what I'm doing?

Also cheers for the Hannants links, that should keep me busy for ages getting the correct marking

Just checked the start of the film with Christopher Plummer, and he flys a Hurricane (guessing a Mk2 made to look like a Mk1) with the marking F on it ( YouTube link below) you just see him at 3:38 climbing onto the wing. I know he was shot down with a Mk9 Spit IX later in the film, but I think I'm gonna build this Hurricane for Plummer, and as for Cane I'm gonna build the one from the scene 'We either sit down or blow up' think its code is CD E

but I'm not sure what mark spit was used?

Cheers guys all been so much good help!!

Steve

[Yankymodeler]

Thank you Steve, I share your enduring enthusiasm for BoB!

As far as I know there were no other visible differences other than the 3 blades on the Messers. Do keep in mind that the 3 blades aircraft were for static or taxy scenes only, they were not airworthy. I have taken the liberty, and ask your forgiveness if I have trangressed on your thread, of pasting a portion of a posting that provides a short history of a select few of the aircraft I've replicated. Because numerous aircraft were used for filming of any given scene it is difficult to pin down a single aircraft to a favorite scene. Note that in the case of Plummer's character (Squadron Leader Colin Harvey) being shot down, the external views sometimes show a Hurricane burning!

The aircraft used to depict the pilot officer played by Micheal Caine ( Squadron Leader Canfield) was usually portrayed by a Mk IX. Spitfire Mk IX MH415 was one of number of Sptifires probably marked as CD E

HA-1112-M1L, C.4K-169, factory number 234. One of the 17 Buchons purchased through Spitfire Productions Ltd for use in filming the 1969 movie âBattle of Britainâ Given the British registration G-AWHT, it was flown to Duxford and assumed numerous costumes including that shown here, Red 5. G-AWHT (in company with Spitfire MH415) was equipped with flash bulbs in the gun positions to simulate muzzle flashes, but this did not work as well as expected and the flashes were dubbed in during editing.

After filming was complete, the âMesserâ as the Spanish referred to the type, was bought by one of the film pilots Ed âConnieâ Edwards and shipped to Harlington, Texas to become one of the first of the Confederate Air Force collection registered N9939. After enduring a number of mishaps, it was bought by Harold Clovis of California and re-registered N109W. In December of 2009 it was sold to the Air Fighter Academy GmbH. and shipped to Germany as D-FMVS. The aircraft continues to fly today.

The last of 14.533 Hurricanes ever built, PZ865 rolled off the production line as a Hurricane Mk IIC at Langley, Buckinghamshire, in the summer of 1944 with the inscription "The Last of the Many" on her port and starboard sides.

The aircraft was almost immediately purchased back from the Air Ministry by Hawkers and initially mothballed, before being employed as a company communications and test aircraft with the civilian registration G-AMAU. In 1950 it was entered in the Kingâs Cup Air Race by HRH Princess Margaret. Flown by Group Captain Peter Townsend it achieved second place.

During the 1960s, PZ865 was returned to its wartime camouflage scheme and continued its use as a company hack and communications aircraft. In 1968 it was leased by Spitfire Productions Ltd for the filming of "The Battle of Britain. One of the roles PZ865 played was the mount of S/L Edwards, in leader of the in-training Polish squadron T9 that dove into battle rather than following instructions to fly heading ââ¦two, three, zeroâ¦.â. This is the part the model depicts. After a complete overhaul, PZ865 was flown to Coltishall in March 1972 and donated to the Memorial Flight by Hawker Siddeley.

Spitfire MH415 was built by Vickers Armstrongs Ltd in the summer of 1943 at the Castle Bromwich Aircraft Factory as an LFIXb. The aircraft was delivered to No.129 squadron at Hornchurch in August 1943, serving with a number of RAF units including the Air Fighting Development Unit at RAF Wittering. The aircraft must have suffered some damage for in early January 1945 it was transferred to Vickers Armstrongs at Oxford for repairs and modifications and then into storage.

In August 1946 MH415 was sold to the Dutch Government and served with the Royal Netherlands Air Force in Java and was shipped back to Holland. It was stored for some time before being sold to the Belgian Air Force. MH415 was overhauled by Fokker NV before delivery in April 1953 being retired in 1956.

MH415 was sold in June 1956 to a Belgian company COGEA, which had a target-towing contract with the Belgian and NATO forces and was registered OO-ARD.. In 1961 it was leased for film use in The Longest Day, which was filmed on location in France.

MH415 was then purchased by Rousseau Aviation of Dinhard in France, where the aircraft was in open storage for some years.

In 1966 Hamish Mahaddie on behalf of Spitfire Productions Ltd, was collecting aircraft for the forthcoming film The Battle of Britain. The aircraft was dismantled and shipped to Simpsons Aeroservices Ltd for an overhaul, being registered G-AVDJ on 29th December 1966. The aircraft was stored during most of 1967. In early 1968 filming had started in Spain, and a Spitfire was required for location work. MH415 was chosen and prepared, a 90-gallon drop-tank being fitted. In late March it left the UK, flying via France to Tablada Air Base in Spain.

On 11 May 1968, the well traveled Spitfire returned to England in company with 17 Hispano 1112s, 2 CASA 2.111s and the B-25 camera-ship. On 14th May MH415 arrived with the film unit at RAF North Weald also flying out of Debden, Duxford and Hawkinge. The weather in 1968 was typically British, so it was decided to move the aerial unit to the good weather of the South of France. MH415 and a number of other Spitfires and Hispanos were flown out to Montpelier in August for three weeks, and the necessary footage was obtained in the sunshine.

MH415 wore many markings during filming, including N3312/AI-C, N3311/CD-B, N3321/AI-M, N2210/CD-A, N3310/AI-A, N3322/AI/N, N3319/DO-K and N3314/AI-E. This Spitfire (as was Hispano C.4K-169) was fitted with strobe lights in the machine gun ports, the only British member of the cast to be so equipped. This experiment did not work as well as expected, and the flashes were dubbed in during editing. MH415 and was flown for a total of 125 hours during filming.

One of the film unit pilots, Texan Wilson âConnieâ Edwards, bought MH415 on completion of its film duties by Simpsons Aeroservices for shipment to Houston, Texas, where it arrived in January 1969. MH415 was delivered to the Edwards ranch at Big Spring and was registered N415MH. It was repainted and 222 squadron codes ZD-E were applied. The aircraft has flown little since its arrival in the USA.

CASA 2.111A, serial number B.2H-25, was built in 1948 powered by with Jumo 211 engines. It was rebuilt in 1957 as B.2I-77 and reengined with Rolls Royce Merlins continuing to serve with the Spanish Air Force until purchased by Spitfire Productions Ltd. in 1968, and flown to England for the filming of the movie 'The Battle of Britain'. Registered G-AWHA the CASA assumed many identities for the film usually seen streaming smoke while hounded by Spitfires and Hurricanes.

In the fall of 1970 B.21-77 received the German registration D-CAGI and made its last flight into the Deutsches Museum, storage facility at Erding. In 1982 it was moved to the SchleiÃheim storage facility and place on display at the Deutsches Museum in 1992.

A complete restoration to return the aircraft to it's original Spanish Air Force service condition was undertaken in 2000 and on completion in 2009 was placed on display at the Deutsches Museum in Oberschleissheim near Munich.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Yankymodeler

[Rich G]

They look absolutely superb, every detail is there, a brilliant tribute to a great film!

Rich

[stevehnz]

Cheers guys, all good stuff. Going back to the Cane, Plummmer Spitfires does anyone know of any company that does transfers on a sheet where i can mix and match letters so to get a closer match to what I want to do. I've also got a 1:72 AZ Sliver Model of a MkIX twin seater which I want to build up as the Grace Spitfire, but again no idea where to get the transefers even if its a mix and match sheet

I ran up against the same issue a year or three back, I eventually tracked down this sheet after some guidance from Yankeemodeller. The Fundekals code letters fror AI-A measured 10.5mm, that sheet is for 11mm, I can live with 0.5mm difference. Of course, its only the white part of the letter you want.

Steve.

[bobfan40]

Eric them models are awesome! Thank you so much for all that info. But just quick going back to the Buchon 3 probs, why is Yellow 10 at Duxford 3 prob, that's an airworthy plane

I've looked into the Connie Edwards collection many times, but other than a short video of him selling a few of his Buchons there only a handful of pictures of them stacked away coved in dust, seems very much a private collection and not much can be said for it, or seen for that matter unless you live in Texis and know Connie Edwards as a friend lol. I did wonder with his Spit weather it was a Battle of Britain film one, cheers for confirming that

stevehnz I'll get some of them transfers ordered up, I'm only an amateur modeller so I'm not too bothered about .5mm out

Cheers

Steve

Edited May 23, 2016 by bobfan40

[bobfan40]

This is my current 109E Airfix kit, I'm happy with my results:

And the Buchon:

The Pilot is an Airfix one and needed some shaving off his arms to get him in but hey it worked. I'm going for a look of ready for take off.. I know this kit from Special Hobbys does have a few etching but I need to get myself back into the swing of how good I was over a 15 years ago when I used to build them at weekends with my dad, so I'm keeping basic for now. Hand painted, no weathering, just keeping them easy. I'm sure the eagle eye will spot the controls on the buchon are slightly off centre, my slight cock up there. Also the eagle eye will note I've added a few more transfers to the Airfix kit, them airfix transfers I did find are a bit crap, but its a starter kit so I'll let it off, and its got me back into it. I like probably so many others get a little pee'd off with the politically correctness of not showing the swastika on the tail, humm to be politically correct it should have a swastika, but that racist, fashiouism etc etc (Don't get me started!!!)

Cheers

Steve

Edited May 23, 2016 by bobfan40

[Yankymodeler]

Looking good so far Steve!

I do know that not all propeller and engine combinations work on all airframes and some combinations are susceptible to vibration and harmonic problems. During the filming of BoB it might have been a simple as the 3 blade aircraft were the airframes that were purchased and assembled for static shots and used the 3 blade props from CASA spares as they were visually more accurate. The flyable Messers were not changed as it was not economically or technically feasible to change already airworthy aircraft.

As to the current Buchon flying with a 3 blade prop, I'm sorry I don't have the definitive answer, it might be as simple as it is am approved combination and looks better.

Eric aka The Yankymodeler

[English Electric]

You may find this interesting... I'll spare you the one of me in the cockpit...

C

And this one too... Note the roundel coming through underneath... The unit flashes were as well...

[Yankymodeler]

Great pics, thanks for sharing!

[English Electric]

Yw... Unfortunately you can't see the two seater... It was behind the other one. Was stripped down anyway.

Both had four bladed props... And a lovely covering of sand in the case of Yellow 7... Apparently getting the rats nests out was fun...

[Yankymodeler]

You wouldn't by any chance have pics of the cockpit of the two seater? I have a couple more additions to the BoB movie star cast, starting with the two place Messer and Spitfire.

I can empathize with the dust and dirt, my Cessna 170 looks like that now in a state of partial disassembly.

[English Electric]

Alas, no, it had all fittings removed. I can confirm it had a bubble canopy though - not an extended greenhouse like the G-12. Interior was RLM grey or as good as...

The cockpit of Yellow 7 was complete though - even to the extent of still having the radio frequencies for the film locations taped to the coaming - Duxford, Le Bourget etc. There were also two banks of switches for adding smoke effects during the film.

Edited May 24, 2016 by English Electric