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dreamwriter

1/48 F-14A Tomcat in 2016 and F-14D in 2018!

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Saw a message from one of the decal companies yesterday on Cybermodeler that said the tail fins of the Hasgawa and Tamiya kits are different so the decals for the Hase kit wiil need a bit of cutting down to fit the Tamiya kit. So here's a question.... who got the fins correct? :worms:

Paul Harrison

Edit: wasn't on Cybermodeler, IIRC it was on Facebook.

Edited by GreenDragon

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So here's a question.... who got the fins correct?

Grumman. :)

Cheers,

Bill

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Is the boat tail fairing correct for the VF-1 plane? It's right for the other two for sure but I thought Enterprise's Tomcats had the early fairing until they went overall gull grey. Also are the early fin stiffeners correct for the Nimitz bird?

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i picked one up yesterday. It has the boat tail from the late 70s onwards but without the ecm blister on it from the later model tomcats. So you won't be able to do those early vf-1 and vf-2 tomcats which I wanted to do myself. However those squadrons did have that boat tail from the kit on their 1976 cruise. I have the Fightertown decals for the earlier vf-1 tomcats but I will try and depict a tomcat from that 1976 cruise. Hope this helps.

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Sorry for being slightly off-topic, but how do the Trumpeter F-14s in 1/32 compare to Tamiya's?

 

Much as I am convinced of both Tamiya's and AMK's (future) 1/48th F-14 models' quality, building this brilliant aircraft in as large a scale as possible is still on my wish list. Until now, I have been put off by the half-job Tamiya did on the fuselage details (rivets), especially in combination with their pricing policy... 

 

Robert

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looking through the sprue shots, I wonder if early and late model Aim-9 Sidewinders D& L/M really share the same aft body incl fins... are they supposed to be the same width and length??

or is just the variation in various kits that big?

thanks for clarification!

 

Edited by exdraken

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It sort of depends, because the missiles themselves changed over time.  The early production D's had a different motor, which was the same diameter as the body - ie. the body was a straight tube.  Later D/G/H's and all L/M's had a motor that was flared slightly behind the wings.  In 1984, they added the T-shaped arming handle to the motor.  The same basic wing was used on the C/D/G/H/L/M/R/S and AGM-122, but there were four iterations (Mk1 Mod 0 through Mk1 Mod 3).  In general though, body diameter and overall dimensions are the same.  Ignoring the canards, if you're *just* looking at the wings and body, the biggest difference would be the target detection windows (the circles just behind the canards).  L/M's used a different target detector, and had windows that were about 3/8" larger.  

 

The differences are all *very* slight, though.  The motor flare is .165" on the actual missile (.08mm in 1/48).  The wing Mods relate to stuff like how the caging mechanism on the rollerons function, etc.  Stuff that would be essentially invisible on a scale missile.  Even the target windows would be hard to spot.  So yes, for practical purposes, in modelling terms, it's pretty much just a matter of swapping out the canards.

 

 TL/DR: if you want to be strictly accurate, a very early D would have a straight, tubular body and slightly different wings than your typical L/M, and an L/M would have slightly different targeting windows and would be more likely to have the T-handle, but there's no definite configuration and in most cases, Tamiya's breakdown would be perfectly fine.

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3 hours ago, ICMF said:

It sort of depends, because the missiles themselves changed over time.  The early production D's had a different motor, which was the same diameter as the body - ie. the body was a straight tube.  Later D/G/H's and all L/M's had a motor that was flared slightly behind the wings.  In 1984, they added the T-shaped arming handle to the motor.  The same basic wing was used on the C/D/G/H/L/M/R/S and AGM-122, but there were four iterations (Mk1 Mod 0 through Mk1 Mod 3).  In general though, body diameter and overall dimensions are the same.  Ignoring the canards, if you're *just* looking at the wings and body, the biggest difference would be the target detection windows (the circles just behind the canards).  L/M's used a different target detector, and had windows that were about 3/8" larger.  

 

The differences are all *very* slight, though.  The motor flare is .165" on the actual missile (.08mm in 1/48).  The wing Mods relate to stuff like how the caging mechanism on the rollerons function, etc.  Stuff that would be essentially invisible on a scale missile.  Even the target windows would be hard to spot.  So yes, for practical purposes, in modelling terms, it's pretty much just a matter of swapping out the canards.

 

 TL/DR: if you want to be strictly accurate, a very early D would have a straight, tubular body and slightly different wings than your typical L/M, and an L/M would have slightly different targeting windows and would be more likely to have the T-handle, but there's no definite configuration and in most cases, Tamiya's breakdown would be perfectly fine.

 

thank you very much for that ve detailed information ICMF!

so Sidewinder evolution was not really a straight forward process it seems with some parallel developement paths! :thumbsup:

 

so then only B (of course) and  E/J/N/ P models would be different ...

 

wonder why Tamiya does not enclude them for the Iranian Tomcats !

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, exdraken said:

 

so Sidewinder evolution was not really a straight forward process it seems with some parallel developement paths! :thumbsup:

 

 

Each 'type' was not a static and unchanging unit, no.  They were gradually developed over time.  As a (really) rough analogy, it's less 'F-16C' and more, F-16 Block 25/30/32/40/42/50/52....  Or, Spit Mk.V vs. Va/Vb/Vc/  There are a lot of subtle detail differences for each particular configuration, even though they all shared the same basic name.  There are five major 'blocks' for the AIM-9P alone, for instance.

 

As I said, the changes were usually pretty subtle - a sliding connector for the rollerons might change, resulting in a different model number for the wings - which would then be fitted to new missiles being built.  But not significant enough to designate a new missile.  Realistically, the simple answer, to a modeller, is that yes, the back half of an AIM-9D and an L/M is the same.  If you want to get nit picky and be strictly accurate, the answer is 'it depends' because each type changed subtly over time.

 

Taking a step back, there are three generations of Sidewinder.  The A/B/E/J/N/P are the first generation - same motor, same wings, same basic geometry, which was noticeably longer.  The first gen had a lot more visible development, but if you strip the fins off an AIM-9E and an AIM-9P, they look pretty much the same.  The C/D/G/H/L/M/R/Sidearm/Chapparal are all second generation - the basic design and geometry changed compared to the first gen, but was pretty much the same within the generation.  Again, strip the fins off the missiles, and the second gen Winders all look basically the same. Third generation is the AIM-9X.  Yet again, the basic design was thoroughly overhauled, and there's zero compatibility with previous missiles, but when the AIM-9Y and Z are developed, they'll share a family resemblance.

 

As for Iranian 'Winders...  they use the AIM-9P, which is evolved from the first generation Sidewinder, so it doesn't share anything with the missiles in the kit.  It would have required separate toolings for the full missile.  My guess is, Tamiya figure that most people (especially in their main market: Japan) will be building USN Tomcats, so it wasn't worth the added expense.  I was surprised they included IRIAF markings at all, so I view it more as a nice bonus, rather than, 'why'd they leave out the Iranian missiles?'  Besides, this way you can do something cool and exotic, like mount Alamos. :D

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$86+shipping.

 

New models I am buying recently are all around this range. I guess this is new normal now. Well at least I cut a lot from after market so I guess it is almost even..

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Oops, I appear to have ordered one. Should be here in a couple of days...

 

Won't stop me from buying the AMK versions though, I have a thing for the Tomcat.

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On ‎10‎-‎10‎-‎2016 at 7:06 PM, ICMF said:

 

Each 'type' was not a static and unchanging unit, no.  They were gradually developed over time.  As a (really) rough analogy, it's less 'F-16C' and more, F-16 Block 25/30/32/40/42/50/52....  Or, Spit Mk.V vs. Va/Vb/Vc/  There are a lot of subtle detail differences for each particular configuration, even though they all shared the same basic name.  There are five major 'blocks' for the AIM-9P alone, for instance.

 

As I said, the changes were usually pretty subtle - a sliding connector for the rollerons might change, resulting in a different model number for the wings - which would then be fitted to new missiles being built.  But not significant enough to designate a new missile.  Realistically, the simple answer, to a modeller, is that yes, the back half of an AIM-9D and an L/M is the same.  If you want to get nit picky and be strictly accurate, the answer is 'it depends' because each type changed subtly over time.

 

Taking a step back, there are three generations of Sidewinder.  The A/B/E/J/N/P are the first generation - same motor, same wings, same basic geometry, which was noticeably longer.  The first gen had a lot more visible development, but if you strip the fins off an AIM-9E and an AIM-9P, they look pretty much the same.  The C/D/G/H/L/M/R/Sidearm/Chapparal are all second generation - the basic design and geometry changed compared to the first gen, but was pretty much the same within the generation.  Again, strip the fins off the missiles, and the second gen Winders all look basically the same. Third generation is the AIM-9X.  Yet again, the basic design was thoroughly overhauled, and there's zero compatibility with previous missiles, but when the AIM-9Y and Z are developed, they'll share a family resemblance.

 

As for Iranian 'Winders...  they use the AIM-9P, which is evolved from the first generation Sidewinder, so it doesn't share anything with the missiles in the kit.  It would have required separate toolings for the full missile.  My guess is, Tamiya figure that most people (especially in their main market: Japan) will be building USN Tomcats, so it wasn't worth the added expense.  I was surprised they included IRIAF markings at all, so I view it more as a nice bonus, rather than, 'why'd they leave out the Iranian missiles?'  Besides, this way you can do something cool and exotic, like mount Alamos. :D

 

Or you can just go to Wikipedia...Saves a lot of typing. LOL

 

Joe

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9 hours ago, Robotics said:

 

Or you can just go to Wikipedia...Saves a lot of typing. LOL

 

Joe

I'd say ICMF put much more info here than there can bf found on Wikipedia regarding this topic anf my questions in particular...

Aditionally, Wikipedia has always this uncertainty included when it comes to specifics........

 

So again,thanks ICMF for taking the time!

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Now that the kit is out in the UK what is the best price you have seen. The best l have seen is £64.95 post free from Jadlam .

 

Robert

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8 hours ago, Robert said:

Now that the kit is out in the UK what is the best price you have seen. The best l have seen is £64.95 post free from Jadlam .

 

Robert

 

That's where i've mine ordered from. Had it pre-ordered with the big H but saw that Jadlam were a bit cheaper. Hoping it will be here tomorrow!

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