Spitfire FR IXc AZ Model 1/72

[Procopius]

I want it NOW! You should try living here, mon brave. About the only thing I get frustrated about living in rural France is the postal service, or lack thereof. I'm doing really well if I get it this week! SWMBO has been waiting over a week for a new case for her iPhone and it's coming from France!!

I live within thirty miles of one of the largest cities in the USA, and even "two-day" priority mail takes five days.

[Beard]

Thanks for the offer of the PRU Pink, Ced, although I hate the think what it would cost to send one tin by courier though (I don't believe you'd send it by RM as that would be breaking their rules).

I'm going to the LHS tomorrow to get two pots of Humbrol White and one of Roundel Red and mix my own.

I doubt I'll be getting much done over the next week as I have Estate Agents visiting and I need to tidy-up (yes, my house is so messy it'll take a week to tidy-up).

[PlaStix]

Impressive work so far and good luck with those decals!!!!

[keefr22]

I do wish I could remember where I read the reference to what PRU pink looked like (& allegedly how it was formulated). To the best of my recollection (& this might be total bollards), it was produced by adding a smidgen of roundel red to a tin of roundel white to give a pale, off white pink colour (I'm guessing that the amount of red added was slightly more scientifically measured than in smidgens!)

I do seem to recall that wherever I read it had a period colour piccie of a PRU Spit (or two) in which the colours of the roundels, background etc looked close to what would be expected, and it/they looked very pale pink - it was difficult to see that they weren't white. I do know they looked much paler than the 72nd PRU Mk1 a club mate had just painted in xtracolor pru pink straight from the tin...

On other matters, that punch & die set looks nice...!

Keith

[keefr22]

Thinking more about it, I believe the Spit(s) in the pic I remember were invasion striped MkIX's, so maybe they weren't darker...

But when all's said & done, who's to really be able to say whether the pink we paint 'our' Spit's is right or wrong.Unless you use Cerise I suppose...!!

Be interesting to know where Hannants got their formula from.

Keith

[CedB]

Thanks guys

Having a rest tonight after fighting with the I/p transfers... Rag lost so calming down... There will be G&T tonight!

Paint hopefully arriving tomorrow so a calmer, better response then

[Beard]

I 'like' the G&T, rather than you losing your rag.

[keefr22]

There will be G&T tonight!

Can't join you tonight Ced, dog-sitting for my son as he's away with work, so my supplies are 2 miles away. And the swine has finished the bottle of Glenfiddich that was here last week...grrrr!!

[keefr22]

Gawd, if I could remember where I left my memory I'd be dangerous....

Ced, have a look at Troy Smith's post #6 on this thread;

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235001919-xtracolour-x035-pru-mauve/#entry2347465

I know I've read the thread Troy links too before, so had forgotten that the picture I was rambling on about was on BM all the time. I'm still sure I have it in a book somewhere too though...

Keith

Edit: I've just been looking at that pic again, & despite claims it was a WW2 period colour photo., I'm now thinking it may a colourized black & white one....

[Giorgio N]

Even Edgar didn't, as far as I know, find the recipe for PRU Pink.

He didn't but he found a sample of this paint and reported that it was so light that taken on its own looked white and only appeared pink when compared directly with something that was actually white.

There is no evidence as far as I know that later pink aircrafts were darker, I believe that a lot of confusion has been created by the appearance a while ago of a warbird painted in a darker pink.

[CedB]

Well, really, I mean, who's got time for "now"? It's so passe.

bob

Thanks bob

I did some more research last night to keep me away from the bench - there are several hammers and a lot of sharp things there...

I searched the 'net for posts to see if I could find anything more on PRU Pink and on SpitfireForums.com found an interesting thread on Pink Spitfire FR.IXs where a very wise man has posted a comment (#3) to the effect that later PRs may well have been a different colour... although, in 2009, 'gingerbob' was a newbie on that forum... hey, wait a minute, 'gingerbob' was that you?

I now declare that I entirely agree with bob's post and that this one will be pink, not dirty white (I'll save that for the Ig). I wanted a pink Spitfire and I shall have a pink Spitfire, so there (what a brat!)

Thanks bob!

We'll still have some fun with the paint though. Try not to get it on your clothes.

I want it NOW! You should try living here, mon brave. About the only thing I get frustrated about living in rural France is the postal service, or lack thereof. I'm doing really well if I get it this week! SWMBO has been waiting over a week for a new case for her iPhone and it's coming from France!!

Rant over

John

PS I think you will need to add some white to the Xtracolour PRU pink.

I live within thirty miles of one of the largest cities in the USA, and even "two-day" priority mail takes five days.

Thanks John and PC

I will, from now on, never complain about delayed deliveries (especially as eModels despatched my order last night).

It does beg the question as to whether we should allow the continued attacks on the 'Royal Mail' in the name of 'competition'. They do a great job IMHO - where else can you stick a (relatively) cheap stamp on a letter to far off places and expect, yes expect it to be delivered the next day. Good on you, Royal Mail, long may you continue. (Now I have the Postman Pat tune in my head - rats).

Note that eModels have despatched my parcel. Others dispatch them. Mrs B (English teacher as you know) says either is acceptable. I will add 'as long as you don't pronounce it dee-spatched'

Thanks for the offer of the PRU Pink, Ced, although I hate the think what it would cost to send one tin by courier though (I don't believe you'd send it by RM as that would be breaking their rules).

I'm going to the LHS tomorrow to get two pots of Humbrol White and one of Roundel Red and mix my own.

I doubt I'll be getting much done over the next week as I have Estate Agents visiting and I need to tidy-up (yes, my house is so messy it'll take a week to tidy-up).

Hi Simon

I think Royal Mail (bless them again) may have relaxed their rules now back to 'the old days' - the parcel from Hannants came via Parcel Force 24. It's your if you want it.

Good luck with the Estate Agents - moving far?

I met an Estate Agent at a party in London years ago. A proper one. He managed the Estate for 'the Duke'. I berated him for selling London to foreigners. 'Leased old boy, leased. We'll get it back in 999 years'.

One of my best mates was one of the other types and collected phrases from the details his colleagues circulated and we all had a good laugh over them. Two favourites were 'deceptively spacious' ("It looks spacious but...") and 'entrance hall having mat well', presumably some sort of sexual deviation

Thanks for the 'like' on the G&T too - I enjoyed it!

Impressive work so far and good luck with those decals!!!!

Thanks Stix!

I do wish I could remember where I read the reference to what PRU pink looked like (& allegedly how it was formulated). To the best of my recollection (& this might be total bollards), it was produced by adding a smidgen of roundel red to a tin of roundel white to give a pale, off white pink colour (I'm guessing that the amount of red added was slightly more scientifically measured than in smidgens!)

I do seem to recall that wherever I read it had a period colour piccie of a PRU Spit (or two) in which the colours of the roundels, background etc looked close to what would be expected, and it/they looked very pale pink - it was difficult to see that they weren't white. I do know they looked much paler than the 72nd PRU Mk1 a club mate had just painted in xtracolor pru pink straight from the tin...

On other matters, that punch & die set looks nice...!

Keith

Thinking more about it, I believe the Spit(s) in the pic I remember were invasion striped MkIX's, so maybe they weren't darker...

But when all's said & done, who's to really be able to say whether the pink we paint 'our' Spit's is right or wrong.Unless you use Cerise I suppose...!!

Be interesting to know where Hannants got their formula from.

Keith

Can't join you tonight Ced, dog-sitting for my son as he's away with work, so my supplies are 2 miles away. And the swine has finished the bottle of Glenfiddich that was here last week...grrrr!!

Gawd, if I could remember where I left my memory I'd be dangerous....

Ced, have a look at Troy Smith's post #6 on this thread;

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235001919-xtracolour-x035-pru-mauve/#entry2347465

I know I've read the thread Troy links too before, so had forgotten that the picture I was rambling on about was on BM all the time. I'm still sure I have it in a book somewhere too though...

Keith

Edit: I've just been looking at that pic again, & despite claims it was a WW2 period colour photo., I'm now thinking it may a colourized black & white one....

Thanks Keith!

I'm so sorry - I seem to have passed on my obsession with pink (still in a manly way!). Thanks for taking the time and trouble - much appreciated and helpful in making my decision

I am very pleased with the punch and die set - see below.

He didn't but he found a sample of this paint and reported that it was so light that taken on its own looked white and only appeared pink when compared directly with something that was actually white.

There is no evidence as far as I know that later pink aircrafts were darker, I believe that a lot of confusion has been created by the appearance a while ago of a warbird painted in a darker pink.

Thanks Giorgio Edgar is already missed; I'm sure we'll be taking about him for years to come.

Right, I'd better post that lot and start another just in case...

[06/24]

Crikey mate. No lack of modelling mojo in the south west is there. Third build in the time it's taken me to (not) finish one!

[Giorgio N]

A post from the past discussing PRU Pink, may be useful

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/56605-pru-pink/

There's mention of the famous sample.. and this thread also mentions how Edgar was not the only Britmodeller involved in the find... one day we should put together all the knowledge of this forum and write a book, would probably contain the answer to any question

[CedB]

The boys are finished and the PJ Productions ones are really nice, if a little angry looking. What has he seen 'over there'?

Untitled by Ced Bufton, on Flickr

Sorry about the focus - still playing with the light box and not having much joy.

I showed them to Mrs B because she's always so interested (not) and I like to share things with her. Still. After 30+ years. Some people never learn. She said "Looks 'armless enough". Boom boom tish, the old ones are the best ones.

I just know I'm going to have lots of fun positioning the arms while trying to get the CA to go off. A treat to look forward to. I shall of course be saving these for 'special' and this model may get one, if it behaves itself.

At the moment that's not the case. For those of you not interested in rambling disaster stories I suggest you skip to the next post.

The punch and die set is great - very precisely engineered as you would expect from something that cost £70.

I know, but it's an investment. I shall use it a lot. Well, I shall try to find excuses to use it, a lot.

The Mike Grant decals are also nice - Nigel uses them after all.

The AZ Model i/p is very nice... nice raised edges around the dials, raised central panel and everything.

Put them all together and, well... remember this?

You can see the raised detail there and how the transfer is settling into the (slightly smaller) raised dial detail.

DO NOT BE FOOLED. It's not settled at all. It's just resting there. After using my scanning electron microscope to find two more suitable dials on the Mike Grant sheet and punching them out with the 1.5mm punch (that's small) I soaked them in the little (but safe) water pot.

This time they didn't sink as the first one did, they floated on the surface. Like Water Boatmen.

I decided to use the straight pointy tweezers I keep for transfers - for the first one I'd just picked up my favourite sharp bendy ones.

Have you ever tried to pick up something that's floating ON water rather than in it? The physicists among you (Hi Stephen!) will know that surface tension, at the microscopic level, is like magnetism - there's a repulsive repelling force - no, right first time, a repulsive force that has you chasing the thing around as it scurries away, like a Water Boatman. One of these guys:

water boatman by penfold, on Flickr

(Thanks to penfold for that shot - let me know if you want it removed)

So I decided to poke it to the bottom of the pot as I had done with the first one and then remove the transfer from the backing with the tweezers. Success!

Then I applied it to the i/p, resulting in the previously reported 'a drop of water is BIG at this scale' problem. Rats.

Soaked the water away with a cotton bud and settled the transfer.

Picked up the third one.

Applied it to the i/p and the first one pinged off, never to be found again.

I'm still pondering what to do. Two options are:

1. flatten the lovely panel detail so that the transfer stick properly

2. forget the transfers and paint the panel or

3. Three options, our three options are surprise and fear...

OK, enough. I may try punching out the dials smaller so they fit in the raised detail. Thereby lies the route to madness.

Or I may just paint the nice detail. I have an idea that if I blob white in the dial holes and then spray black over the top, thinly, I can scratch the black away and make, you know, things that look like needles. And scale marks.

Nurse!

[Giorgio N]

I would suggest sticking the instruments to the panel using future/klear rather than rely on the adhesion of the decal. I would also pick the decals from the water using the back of a small knife blade, is easier than using tweezers.

[CedB]

Crikey mate. No lack of modelling mojo in the south west is there. Third build in the time it's taken me to (not) finish one!

Hi Jon! Well, you're a busy man! All those award ceremonies and everything (congratulations by the way!) and the family to look after.

Right, that's enough cuddly stuff, now get on with those Sea Kings! (Wikipedia says it's two words, good enough for me)

A post from the past discussing PRU Pink, may be useful

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/56605-pru-pink/

There's mention of the famous sample.. and this thread also mentions how Edgar was not the only Britmodeller involved in the find... one day we should put together all the knowledge of this forum and write a book, would probably contain the answer to any question

Thanks Giorgio

You're right (of course) that there's lots of stuff on the 'net about this and also right that there doesn't seem to be a definitive source, as usual.

I've decided for my kit bashing that I'm going with both Edgar's 'almost white' for the early Ig (coming soon) and a darker pink for this later model as per gingerbob's post (see above) as both have seen samples and bob's point that it may have been modified by the field unit later seems valid. Also, did I mention that I'm doing this because I wanted a pink Spitfire?

Other references abound. Here's some and I share them not to protract the argument discussion but merely for interest.

Beard's post 'Spitfire PR1G/ PRVII' back in 2014.

Spitfire Forum's 'Pink Spitfire FR.IXs' back in 2009, including gingerbob's post #3

A very interesting site on 'RAF Reconnaissance Aircraft' that gives the history of the various types.

An article from IPMS Stockholm on 'Camouflage & Markings - Early Armed Reconnaissance Spitfires" by Rick Kent (not the 'early'?)

And last, but not least, this:

Beautiful. I know it's probably a restoration but I assume they did some homework and it's PINK!

If my decision makes anyone cross I apologise, but you will have some recompense watching me trying to replicate that staining from the exhausts.

Enough posting. Wait for paint. Do some sticking in the meantime.

[CedB]

I would suggest sticking the instruments to the panel using future/klear rather than rely on the adhesion of the decal. I would also pick the decals from the water using the back of a small knife blade, is easier than using tweezers.

Thanks Giorgio - great tip!

[Giorgio N]

The aircraft in the video is the warbird I had mentioned in a previous post. It was painted in a great scheme but is quite inaccurate.. not only because of the tone of pink but because it's a PR.XI and these aircrafts did not use pink. Pink was used by low level recce aircrafts (the so called "dicers") to blend with a cloudy overcast. The XI was a high level recce type and PRU blue (sometimes with medium sea grey) was the colour of choice.

In any case PRU Pink is one of those subject on which discussions will rage on forever, what's important is building a model in the colour that you think is right

[keefr22]

I wanted a pink Spitfire and I shall have a pink Spitfire, so there (what a brat!)

Good man, that's the spirit..!!

Careful that you don't overdo that exhaust staining, or you'll have the weathering police, as well as the pink paint ones after you...!!

And I must confess that your IP dials travails made me smile (OK, nearly laugh out loud, but that sounded to cruel!) Not so much for the hassle they're giving you, but for all the patience you are expending on a 72nd scale IP that will be in a Spitfire with a closed canopy hanging from the ceiling. I salute your fortitude & persistence...!!

Keith

[CedB]

The aircraft in the video is the warbird I had mentioned in a previous post. It was painted in a great scheme but is quite inaccurate.. not only because of the tone of pink but because it's a PR.XI and these aircrafts did not use pink. Pink was used by low level recce aircrafts (the so called "dicers") to blend with a cloudy overcast. The XI was a high level recce type and PRU blue (sometimes with medium sea grey) was the colour of choice.

In any case PRU Pink is one of those subject on which discussions will rage on forever, what's important is building a model in the colour that you think is right

Thanks Giorgio, very kind

Good man, that's the spirit..!!

Careful that you don't overdo that exhaust staining, or you'll have the weathering police, as well as the pink paint ones after you...!!

And I must confess that your IP dials travails made me smile (OK, nearly laugh out loud, but that sounded to cruel!) Not so much for the hassle they're giving you, but for all the patience you are expending on a 72nd scale IP that will be in a Spitfire with a closed canopy hanging from the ceiling. I salute your fortitude & persistence...!!

Keith

Thanks Keith

I will be careful not to overdo it... and I'm happy the post has brought a little joy into your life!

I found the missing dial when I reached for my current piece of kitchen towel:

There it is! by Ced Bufton, on Flickr

I have glued some bits together:

Stuck by Ced Bufton, on Flickr

Question. Aluminium either side of the IG, or carry on the green?

Finally some good news. I tried scratching the i/p dials with a needle to see how fine it was and the plastic showing through looked OK so I continued doing tiny scratches and pokes. Added some colour with the Liquidex pens on a tiny brush.

Enough! by Ced Bufton, on Flickr

Happy with that especially, as Keith says, it'll be on the ceiling.

[Giorgio N]

I'd say the result on the IP is very realistic

[Beard]

That instrument panel looks great.

Aluminium either side of the green inside, some-one more knowledgeable than me will be able to tell you exactly where the green started and stopped.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Beard

[keefr22]

Happy with that especially, as Keith says, it'll be on the ceiling.

I'd be more than happy with that IP in a Spit. with its wheels on the ground & canopy & cockpit door wide open! Cracking victory over yesterday's adversity there Ced!

I'm certainly no expert but I've always painted mine aluminium aft of the seat bulkhead & forward of the IP. Though I don't recall ever seeing much forward of the IP in a finished kit...

Keith

[PlaStix]

Well done with those dials! I do not know how you had the patience!

Edited May 5, 2016 by PlaStix

[Cookenbacher]

" 'armless" - good one Mrs. B.

The IP looks great Ced, I had assumed you had successfully applied the decals until I read the text of the post. Wow, that's some tiny detail work.