De Havilland Hornet F1 markings -

[David Womby]

I am tarting up the Frog Hornet and converting it to an F1. I've done the fin and tailplanes and am looking for markings. I have decals from the SH kit and think I may do PX252 with the huge red chevrons of 65 Squadron BUT I'd really like to see a photos of that aircraft and can't find any. Lots of drawings but no actual photo. Does anybody know where I can find one, please?

I'd also be interested in other pics of F1s. There's plenty of F3s in silver, camo/PRU blue and grey/PRU blue but precious few of F1s. I should note that I don't want to model one with C type roundels (just personal preference) but red/blue or D type roundels are fine. I do have a good pic of PX277 (grey/PRU blue/D type) in the old Fighting Colours book but that's the only non-C type F1 I can find so far.

David

[The wooksta V2.0]

A quick flip through the Tony Buttler/David Collins book revels two - PX281 XL-E with type B and PX238 XL-D with type B. Both appear to be in MSG/PRU Blue. Also PX232 YT-R of 65 Sqn in the same scheme, type B markings and white codes.

And don't forget PX216 either! It started life as a PR2 but was converted to an F1 later, in overal HSS with type D markings and the codes WA-TN, the last two being smaller. Check the markings in the 48th Trumpeter mk 1 for the style.

[fatalbert]

How about the prototype with yellow undersides

[David Womby]

How about the prototype with yellow undersides

That would be different but I'd prefer in service markings.

A quick flip through the Tony Buttler/David Collins book revels two - PX281 XL-E with type B and PX238 XL-D with type B. Both appear to be in MSG/PRU Blue. Also PX232 YT-R of 65 Sqn in the same scheme, type B markings and white codes.

And don't forget PX216 either! It started life as a PR2 but was converted to an F1 later, in overal HSS with type D markings and the codes WA-TN, the last two being smaller. Check the markings in the 48th Trumpeter mk 1 for the style.

Thanks, that's helpful info. and I'd forgotten PX216. Isn't it odd though, PX252 is so widely drawn and modelled but nobody seems to have a photo of her with those chevrons on?

David

[canberra kid]

I can't find any photos of 252 eather but I found these two in my collection if they are of any interest.

John

[Britman]

Interesting serial and code's on PX252,not exactly "line of flight "!

[wyverns4]

Alas, no photograph of PX252 with the chevrons. In: Cooper, L.G., 1992, The Hornet File, Air-Britain publications, Tonbridge, UK, ISBN 0 85130 202 5, pp.147, on page 67 it mentions that,

"During 1946/47 Sqn. Ldr. Haw flew PX252, which was decorated in 65 Squadron pre-war style red chevron markings on both the upper wing and fuselage sides. These attractive markings were eventually removed in favour of the squadron code "YT" on the orders of Fighter Command".

In the above mentioned tome there is;

P. 73, PX232, 65 Sqn, YT-R

P. 92, PX238, 226 OCU, XL-D

P. 93, PX275, CFS GO-F

P. 123, PX288, pre-delivery, no code

Gray-tone plate of;

P. 43, PX281, 226 OCU, XL-E

HTH! Need to find other books and photographs that have been packed away for our impending translation to Tanzania...

Christian, exiled to the armpit of the world

Edited April 21, 2016 by wyverns4

[David Womby]

Thanks. Christian. Most helpful.

I am beginning to suspect that there are no photos of PX252 with those chevrons but that the drawings and decals available are all based on just a verbal description such as you quote. Pity as I really like to see a photo of the actual aircraft I am modelling to be as sure as I can of the markings (and colours). I also hoped for a pic to be sure what colour the spinners were on this scheme - I have seen some models built with them in red and others in silver.

David

[Chris Thomas]

There is a photo of PX252 in 65 Sqn chevrons. It was published somewhere but I photographed it so have a copy neg, which I will attempt to find! I acquired it when I was painting a Hornet for some cover art that in the event wasn't used. I spoke to 'Wag' Haw at the time and he told me it was the only Hornet with the markings and they were not carried for long as he was told in no uncertain terms to re move them.

CT

Edited April 21, 2016 by Chris Thomas

[David Womby]

There is a photo of PX252 in 65 Sqn chevrons. It was published somewhere but I photographed it so have a copy neg, which I will attempt to find! I acquired it when I was painting a Hornet for some cover art that in the event wasn't used. I spoke to 'Wag' Haw at e time and he told me it was the only Hornet with the markings and they were not carried for long as he was told in no uncertain terms to re move them.

CT

That's fantastic news, Chris. I hope you can find it because I'm sure I am not alone in wanting to see it. Thanks.

David

[David Womby]

So here, courtesy of Chris Thomas who asked me to post the pics, is the picture of PX252 wearing the famous (or infamous) chevrons. Here is Chris's email to me:

Well here is the shot of PX252. Sorry its not better quality but it is taken from a small photo in Aeromodeller c.1947/8 which was rather coarsely screened. Ive descreened it to some extent and boosted the contrast/brightness.

I actually copied it from an album belonging to one Angus Fraser who had spent his National Service as ground crew at Tangmere. Haw had flown in and Fraser took the other photo attached, of PX252 wearing codes (YT)-H, after the chevrons were removed. Not too good a shot either but it at least shows you how the under wing serials were positioned. Fraser had obviously spoken to Haw, or one of his chums had, for there was a note alongside the Aeromodeller cutting which said the markings were removed on the order of AOC 12 Group.

Please post them on Britmodeller for me and credit A.Fraser via CT.

I have to say, thanks so much, Chris. I am thrilled you were able to find these photos for us.

David

[ththtttu7]

On 4/22/2016 at 11:56 AM, David Womby said:

So here, courtesy of Chris Thomas who asked me to post the pics, is the picture of PX252 wearing the famous (or infamous) chevrons. Here is Chris's email to me:

Well here is the shot of PX252. Sorry its not better quality but it is taken from a small photo in Aeromodeller c.1947/8 which was rather coarsely screened. Ive descreened it to some extent and boosted the contrast/brightness.

 

I actually copied it from an album belonging to one Angus Fraser who had spent his National Service as ground crew at Tangmere. Haw had flown in and Fraser took the other photo attached, of PX252 wearing codes (YT)-H, after the chevrons were removed. Not too good a shot either but it at least shows you how the under wing serials were positioned. Fraser had obviously spoken to Haw, or one of his chums had, for there was a note alongside the Aeromodeller cutting which said the markings were removed on the order of AOC 12 Group.

 

Please post them on Britmodeller for me and credit A.Fraser via CT.

 

 

 

I have to say, thanks so much, Chris. I am thrilled you were able to find these photos for us.

 

David

 

Hi David,

I'm pleased to read some first hand reference to the famously marked PX252. While I don't doubt that it was briefly painted with the red chevrons at all, the first photo you have shared above is actually an artist's impression of it done at the time. I've got the original photo of PX217 at exactly this angle matching the ground behind. The Aeromoddeller Magazine have effectively "photoshopped" it.

 

I have some further correspondence from ground crew talking if three Hornet squadrons trying a similar thing: 65 with these chevrons (no photos); 19 with their blue/white checks (two photos); and 64 with their red/blue trellis pattern.

 

I have another two views of PX252 after it was repainted as YT-H. 

Edited November 28, 2020 by David A Collins

[David Womby]

15 minutes ago, David A Collins said:

 

Hi David,

I'm pleased to read some first hand reference to the famously marked PX252. While I don't doubt that it was briefly painted with the red chevrons at all, the first photo you have shared above is actually an artist's impression of it done at the time. I've got the original photo of PX217 at exactly this angle matching the ground behind. The Aeromoddeller Magazine have effectively "photoshopped" it.

 

I have some further correspondence from ground crew talking if three Hornet squadrons trying a similar thing: 65 with these chevrons (no photos); 19 with their blue/white checks (two photos); and 64 with their red/blue trellis pattern.

 

I have another two views of PX252 after it was repainted as YT-H. 

Thanks, David.   I actually painted my model as per the pic of PX252 wearing chevrons and D type roundels but it was pointed out to me after that the pic had been airbrushed and that she would almost certainly have worn C type roundels throughout.  So I redid her.   It's all here: PX252 Build.

David

[ththtttu7]

Hi David,

This is the photo of PX217 that Aeromodeller doctored to depict PX252 with.

 

You can see even though the background that they have painted a river on, there is an unmistakable ghost of the original photo 😀

 

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by David A Collins

[canberra kid]

It doesn't really help but here is a photo of PX252 pre or post chevrons

 

John

[ththtttu7]

Hi John,

I think this was the post chevron scheme.

[canberra kid]

26 minutes ago, David A Collins said:

Hi John,

I think this was the post chevron scheme.

Thanks David

John

[wellsprop]

16 hours ago, David A Collins said:

Hi David,

This is the photo of PX217 that Aeromodeller doctored to depict PX252 with.

 

You can see even though the background that they have painted a river on, there is an unmistakable ghost of the original photo 😀

 

 

 

 

Wwwwwwhhhhhhaaaaaattt?!?! 

 

I thought that was real, in fact, it was what convinced me that PX252 did have chevrons, hence I modelled it as such! 

 

Well now I know

[ththtttu7]

3 hours ago, wellsprop said:

Wwwwwwhhhhhhaaaaaattt?!?! 

 

I thought that was real, in fact, it was what convinced me that PX252 did have chevrons, hence I modelled it as such! 

 

Well now I know

 

I am confident that PX252 was painted temporary with these red chevrons, as there is plenty of RAF correspondence about it from the time...just no photos unfortunately.