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Phantom II F-4F to F-4E help and advice please


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Hi All, long time lurker and no poster but thought it's about time I started to get involved with this site as I have often read reviews and taken advice from the many excellent threads here. In time I hope I can give something back to help others but I'm looking for some advice on converting a Phantom II F-4F to an F-4E. I've been desperate to build a Vietnam era sea camo rhino in 1/72 but there appears to be a distinct lack of decent kits in this scale on the market at the moment. I eventually resulted in buying a Revell F-4F (Pharewell) after reading quite a bit about the fact that on the surface, they look very similar to an F-4E - perfect for my subject! I have also purchased some after-market decals and will be modelling F-4E 67-0210, 1972 58TFS, 432 TFW. This particular jet grabbed a mig kill with the gun... and it's got a sharks mouth adorning it which sold it :)


So my questions are really around my research as I'm confident one of the many experts on here will be able to help.


First off, I'm concerned about the main wings. I have omitted the little ridges (3 on the underside of each wing) as the pictures I can find of the jet in question don't have these; out of interest does anyone know what these are for (step 26)?

IMG_3054_zpslceo1h18.jpg


I now have two options for the wing tips. I can opt for the ones without 'leading edges' or ones with. I can't find any further pictures which show what it should have and I'm not sure what to choose. Again, what are these used for? I assume improved control surfaces?


This picture may help, the one on the right is the one with what I have called 'leading edges':

IMG_3060_zps5nweak2j.jpg


Thanks in advanced and if anyone is interested I'll start taking pictures of the build and share :)
Edited by Victory-is-in-the-Kitchen
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The parts you are asking about on the underside of the wing are the hinges for the leading edge slats and this is where I think you might have your work cut out depending on the specific era and airframe you are building.

The early E's didn't have the slats, their wings were very similar to the earlier USAF Phantoms in that they had leading edge flaps (quite different in shape so best google for images to compare). If your aircraft had the extended slats then you are just looking at detail changes otherwise you'll need to change the outer wing section (your kit might have them on the sprues, I know my Revell F4F did) or remove the slats from the leading edge and not fit those parts underneath.

It's been a long time since I modelled USAF aircraft but some other things I can think might be worth checking are the style of the gun muzzle, It changed later to the extended type you have with your kit (but is an easy fix), the length of the jet pipe nozzles (I can't remember if the F's had uprated engines but suspect they were uprated compared to the early E so this might effect the exhaust length), Big Stu has already mentioned the slotted stabilator (tailplane), the wing tips wouldn't have the F's ECM blisters as per your kit and there will be differences in aerial types too ( I think there is a flat with an aerial on the right hand fuselage on the F that wasn't on the E).

I'm sure there are more detail differences but with a bit of research and work it shouldn't be too difficult a conversion especially if your kit has the earlier style outer wing panels which helps with the ECM and part of the slat problem.

Duncan B

p.s if you don't have the early outer wing panels PM me and I can send you the ones that came with my kit

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As Duncan said, omit parts 101 to 106 for an unslatted E - not sure if any slatted Es served in Vietnam ? If so, than probably rather late in the game. I think the panelling on an unslatted inboard wing would be different to the slatted one, but this would perhaps not be too obvious.

The pic above looks like it's (edit: pt. 32, that is...) an unslatted panel as it also has a different wingtip, so that would bring you a long way towards an E. Short gun muzzle was mentioned already, too, I think it predates introduction of the slats. Edit: Stupid wording, IIRC the long fairing was introduced before the slats were, due to gas ingestion issues.

The Fs had MTU-built engines which may have been slightly more powerful, but I don't think I ever read any ref. to their nozzles being longer - the Es and Js were longer than b to D, but I don't think E to F.

A number of Es had a sensor called TISEO (target identification sensor electro-optical) on the inboard leading edge, but I don't think all did - not sure if that one was incompatible with the slatted wing.

The Fs had one fuselage tank less but I don't think this results in external differences. For the cockpit it may be slightly different as the F was not wired for AIM-7s, so all Sparrow control equipment would not be fitted I think.

A very good reference even though quite old now is the Detail & Scale booklet on the E to G

Edited by tempestfan
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Thanks all, very helpful information. I'm glad I omitted the hinges under the wings and I'll fit the wing tips without the leading edge slats and ECM blisters (part 32 as an example on the sprue above). Thanks Duncan for the offer of the parts anyway.

I'll have to see how I can model the stabilisers... I did a search for them and found this thread which was quite useful as well:

http://www.angelfire.com/dc/jinxx1/Phantoms/F4bits.html

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Not all F-4Es had TISEO. We had a TISEO equipped E model hanging around RAF Woodbridge for a week or two around 1976. I'll have to see if I can find the picture of it again, but I am pretty sure it didn't have the slats, not sure on the muzzle fairing though.

Later,

Dave

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Nice work so far!

Another few pointers, if I may:

- the Sidewinder launchers: for an early F-4E, these were Aero LAU-3's - the kit provides the later LAU-7 rails.

- remove the chaff / flare launchers from the inner wing pylons, these were a later addition

- should you want to use a centreline fuel tank on your build, the type supplied in the RoG kit is the later F-15 style High Performance item. For an early F-4E's you'll want the, very different, Royal Jet type.

Cheers,

Andre

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Nice work so far!

Another few pointers, if I may:

- the Sidewinder launchers: for an early F-4E, these were Aero LAU-3's - the kit provides the later LAU-7 rails.

- remove the chaff / flare launchers from the inner wing pylons, these were a later addition

- should you want to use a centreline fuel tank on your build, the type supplied in the RoG kit is the later F-15 style High Performance item. For an early F-4E's you'll want the, very different, Royal Jet type.

Cheers,

Andre

Thanks Andre, I'll post a picture of the launchers and the centre tank when I get a second as I can't tell - they do look similar if not the same as the ones on the real life E's I have seen but let's see what you think. Fortunately it hasn't got the chaff/flare launchers in place. Cheers!

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The F-4 Tank is shaped like an extended drop, while the F-15 style is cylindrical (parallel sides) for about 2/3rd of its length. IIRC F's rarely used the original version (in contrast to RF-Es),so I'd expect the Revell kit to have the later style, not being familiar with its contents.

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Need to add slotted stabilisers, had the same idea myself though I've since acquired a hasegawa one

Yep, that's the stumbling block in the conversion. Had REvell AG provided that piece (even though it would run unused in German F-4s) that kit would have sold like hot cakes.

FErnando

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  • 2 weeks later...

Nice work, the tanks on its way. I'm currently building the other one on the same decal sheet :)

Hi Stu, tank arrived and I now assembled - thanks once again. Will post some progress shots over the next couple of days :)

What one are you representing?

Edited by Victory-is-in-the-Kitchen
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