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A 1/72 Amodel I-16 Type 5 Spanish Civil War (without a bucket of filler?).


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So what did I learn?

1: That the vertical stabiliser halves need shaping and thinning, very carefully but moreover:
2: That the starboard hinge line needs filing back, carefully. To file at approx -3 degrees from the vertical plane should help nullify the step between the fuselage halves.
3: The fuselage gap seems to be created by the 'flared' nature of the front bulkhead as it is on the sprue without being quite forcibly reshaped. The 'flare' should go. It should (perhaps) have an utterly flat mating surface to the cylindrical interior of the fuselage halves.....this suggests..
4: The fuselage halves should be aligned and glued together first. Cockpit, IP, all else, comes after this?

Point 4 is almost counter intuitive in a 1/72 kit - we seem to always close up the fuselage halves after (another Cotswolds village) 'Much Faffing'.

Well - I decided to go for it.

P1250202_zpswvu8qdxz.jpg

By crikey, that looks fine, it has aligned quite wonderfully :)

Moreover, the macro setting on my $65 secondhand Panasonic shows..on one side of the fuselage only, a circle where plans indicate the IP windows should be. Hmm :hmmm:. I'm going to drill them out and put them in.

Now, how about the wings?

Well - they are a delicate challenge. The bottom one piece wing is a little difficult to remove without incurring damage to the rear fuselage join edge.

P1250170_zps7ljyprpp.jpg

The upper wings need the inner surfaces thinning so that the ailerons don't 'step' too badly. Also, it is very important to remove them carefully from the sprue (micro saw) and to shape the wing tips delicately with perhaps a 600 grit sanding stick.

P1250173_zpsfa53eae1.jpg

I may have mentioned I am using a micro saw set by Trumpeter that I got on the cheap from Evilbay. In all honesty - it has been incredibly useful. I'm a little stuck regarding what to buy now the saws are starting to get worn. Bright orange thingies they are - I'll show them soon.

Well, that's it for today. As you can see, the next step will be to see if the now quite nicely joined fuselage halves mate up with the wing.

P1250203_zpsg7vtgxzj.jpg

The joints beyond the wing roots to the rear have been so far very problematic. They need to be razor sharp, but have needed filler, ruining the profile. The under fuselage join has also been quite horrible with a 1.3mm or so uneven step. Tomorrow we'll see how it goes this time, :hmmm: .

Thanks for reading, Happy modelling

Tony

Edited to insert missing image.

Edited by TonyTiger66
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Don't you mean Nikolai Polikarpov ???

Great work on the I-16 BTW :thumbsup: - I built two of them to go under my TB-3 bomber as an 'Aviamatka'.....

Zveno_31B.jpg

Not the easiest of kits - but then I didn't do all the improvements that you are tackling.

Keep it up.

Ken

PS Re the Wanaka I-16s - I read an article in a magazine where the NZ pilot said that landing the I-16 was very difficult! - In fact it was easier to ditch the plane offshore and then recover it than it was to land it :analintruder:

Hi Ken, it's really great to hear from you. Way back I read your Zveno WIP and was just absolutely, as they say in the UK, gobsmacked :gobsmacked: !

You built a, to me, almost mythical and legendary model. The I-(1?)5 and Z were just icing on the cake of this tour-de-force. I have the ICM TB3 and it looks an incredible challenge. One day... ;)

Have you seen the recent 'Modelsvit' TB release? This opens up possibilities for earlier 'Zveno' configurations. Great!

Yes, Nikolai Polikarpov. Was he in jail in the Gulags at the time this was designed? I know quite a few of them were. A design team in a jail - quite bizarre.

Your Ishak's look and are great :worthy: .

Yes, Amodel kits are "Filler Queens".

Yes John, that seems to be the way with many of them, but it isn't the case sometimes. The Hispano Aviation 1109 isn't too bad. It has still found its way to the 'Drawer of Doom', but more of a 'ponder' moment than anything else (dihedral problem). They really are 'modellers' kits. They take some taming! :blink2: .

Thanks people and best regards

Tony

Edited for Derek Trotter style erroneous use of the French language.

Edited by TonyTiger66
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Great progress Tony :)

I find the molds on short runs often have 'extra plastic' on them but that, sometimes, the intended shape can be seen under the flash / blobs. A bit like Michelangelo, you just need to 'chip away the bits that aren't David'. (I've been trying to remember that for ages and finally found something on the 'net.) As you've also found, angled joins are not to be trusted!

With regards to micro saws, I use the RB Productions ones and they're great. I don't know if there's a supplier 'down under' but they're worth the postage / wait IMHO and the scribers are really useful too.

Joining the fuselage halves and shoving the cockpit in from underneath seems to be a common technique for some models so I think you're safe at that approach (he said, carefully avoiding suggestions of shoving things up the bottom) :)

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Yes, Nikolai Polikarpov. Was he in jail in the Gulags at the time this was designed? I know quite a few of them were. A design team in a jail - quite bizarre.

No, Polikarpov designed the fighters he's most famous for after his release from Butyrka - i don't think he ever ended up in a gulag ie a camp far way in the woods. One of the charges against him was the excessive delay in designing the I-6, a fighter which remained a protoype.

Polikarpov was inquired again after the ill-fated test flight of the I-180 that led to Chekalov's death, but he got off on a technicality - he hadn't signed permission for the test flight. The accident, however, marked the end of his career.

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Great progress Tony :)

A bit like Michelangelo, you just need to 'chip away the bits that aren't David'.

Thanks Ced and I followed the link to the quote. It's very appropriate, especially in terms of, for example, the engine in this kit! ;)

The RB Productions website is just what I have been looking for in terms of special modelling tools. He does 'tax free' for none EU customers. I feel I will buy quite a few things from him direct. I love nice tools.

Certainly best to avoid mention of shoving things up the bottom, but I do feel an Eddie Waring 'Up and Under!' will be achieved. :)

No, Polikarpov designed the fighters he's most famous for after his release from Butyrka.

Polikarpov was inquired again after the ill-fated test flight of the I-180 that led to Chekalov's death, but he got off on a technicality - he hadn't signed permission for the test flight. The accident, however, marked the end of his career.

Thanks Bonehammer. My knowledge of VVS designer history is poor, but I hope to learn more. These designers seem to have endured hardships, expectations, judgement and reprisals that seem very harsh. I like reading traditional books; if you could recommend a good text on the subject I'd really appreciate it.

It's after midnight here (almost) on the bottom of the world; time to sleep.

Another day of filing, sawing, pondering and glueing tomorrow.

Happy modelling

Tony

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If you

Thanks Bonehammer. My knowledge of VVS designer history is poor, but I hope to learn more. These designers seem to have endured hardships, expectations, judgement and reprisals that seem very harsh. I like reading traditional books; if you could recommend a good text on the subject I'd really appreciate it.

It's after midnight here (almost) on the bottom of the world; time to sleep.
Another day of filing, sawing, pondering and glueing tomorrow.

Happy modelling
Tony

My knowledge of the misadventures of Soviet aircraft designers is anecdotal: one line from an article here, another from a book there, a Wikipedia article... and Solzhenitsin's The First Circle, from way back then when I was in high school.

Love what you're doing to the Mosca BTW, and how you're determined to see it through. Some Amodel kits can be right pains to put together, each part seems fine on its own but when put together...

15040315890_9f192d2920_b_d.jpg...you're left choosing which chasm you dislike the least.

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Hi, Tony...sorry to tell you, but if you want to build an early spanish civil war Type 5, the kit wing ia incorrect..It should be the earlier, 11 ribs wings. Plus, the fuselage radio acces hatch is not correct for a Type 5. Finally, the I-16 cockpit didn't have a floor.....well, there were some other differences, but those are the most important ones...

Cheers...

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Hi, Tony...sorry to tell you, but if you want to build an early spanish civil war Type 5, the kit wing ia incorrect..It should be the earlier, 11 ribs wings. Plus, the fuselage radio acces hatch is not correct for a Type 5. Finally, the I-16 cockpit didn't have a floor.....well, there were some other differences, but those are the most important ones...

Cheers...

Hi Artie,

Yes you're right. I know the wings are wrong. I've decided to live with it for now and just see if there's a way to build this kit to a reasonable standard. Radio hatch, yes, I just got some new filler for that. Also I don't think the rudder is offset as it should be.

If it can be made into something passable, then I'll make more of them and gradually introduce corrections.

My ability needs to improve too, so I hope even if not with this model I will improve over time with each new one I tackle.

I have to say, I really wish AModel had provided 11 rib wings.

Eventually a 'suspended' floor could be made, but, for now, if I can just get something with red stripes on that I can live with on the shelf, I'll be happy enough.

If this doesn't work out well at all, maybe an ICM type 18 to type 5 conversion may be on the cards. I'll keep on.

Thanks again Artie

Best regards

Tony

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If you

My knowledge of the misadventures of Soviet aircraft designers is anecdotal: one line from an article here, another from a book there, a Wikipedia article... and Solzhenitsin's The First Circle, from way back then when I was in high school.

Love what you're doing to the Mosca BTW, and how you're determined to see it through. Some Amodel kits can be right pains to put together, each part seems fine on its own but when put together...

15040315890_9f192d2920_b_d.jpg...you're left choosing which chasm you dislike the least.

Oh my...Is that a Yak?

I'm not sure if it is, but it may be. I have an Amodel Yak 17 in the stash. This looks like it may be a 21 or 23?

You are absolutely right about 'choosing which chasm you like the best'.

Today's work has found this to be the case.. :weep:

I also read Solzhenitsyn - 'The Gulag Archipelago" and "One Day In The Life Of Ivan Denisovitch'. The latter in the early 90's, the former in 2004. Simply amazing books, quite harrowing but very human.

Thanks regarding the Mosca. I'm now at the stage where it is putting in a bit of a fight. Out with the filler soon I feel...

Onwards and upwards!

Tony

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Another day of plastic fettling.

Firstly, I decided that someone else must have been using my modelling desk. They had left it in a terrible mess. I couldn't work in the chaos anymore, what horrid person had done this to me?

P1000239_zpss5k2wm7u.jpg

Eeek!

P1000240_zpsal3b1dhm.jpg

Hmm - a lot of Amodel I-16 boxes there, looks like they've been busy. A Heller BF-109K?? Strange. :hmmm:

P1000241_zpsfrrzykle.jpg

Oh dear deary me.. :fraidnot:

So, it was tidied. I'm not letting that chap use my desk again.

So, the aim today: To see if I can get the fuselage and wings joined up without the stated 'bucket of filler'.

A dry fit led to, once again, the village known as 'Much Pondering' (It's in Kent - the local pub, 'The Thrice Newted' - do lovely Scotch Eggs).

P1000222_zps2bxchsfr.jpg

Those are doorstep like wing root joins If indeed they are - joins.

P1000223_zps1ymejjob.jpg

As Bonehammer already has suggested, we are in a 'choose which chasm you like the least' scenario. If the fuselage is moved to starboard - the gap can be closed up, but the port gap then becomes huge. The same applies when the port gap is closed - the starboard becomes huge.

Here are the gaps created by good alignment of the opposing side:

Filler?

P1000224_zpsqzdh6dia.jpg

Aerodynamic?

If the fuselage is pressed down from above, the gaps almost disappear. In bed last night I had pondered over joining the upper wings to the fuselage *before* joining all of that to the lower wing. Unfortunately, I had already glued them, so it was too late. Other wing challenges are:

1: Avoid a step in the leading edge. Solution seems to be to file back the leading edge of the aileron mouldings, forcing the wig to align further aft. I simply have to leave that typo in ;).

2: Avoid a big step to the rear of the wing. Solution - take some meat off the wing thickness, but carefully.

3: Get the machine guns on one half moulding to line up with the cutaway on the other half moulding. Also to sand down the machine guns to make them as fine as possible (they're quite fine and small on the real thing). The solution to this is trial and error filing and delicate filing/opening pf the cutaway.

P1000228_zpsxhjtmsbt.jpg

Aileron gap mostly closed, machine gun trimmed, leading edge lines up.

I used a fine Tamiya file to file down the area to the rear of the wing roots, to make it perfectly flat and thus hopefully negate the need for filler here.

P1000234_zpswlpbei8r.jpg

They key seems to be to make the edge as sharp as possible, but don't lose it. It is just the right width and excessive filing will narrow it and, yes, filler will be needed.

After filing, I think this picture shows that if I can find a way to clamp this, there will be no gap:

P1000225_zpshifjolxd.jpg

I have ordered some Berna clamps (inspired by CedB's use of them here on Britmodeller) but they will be at least 2 weeks arriving from the USA (best price). Has anyone any ideas how all this could be clamped down or taped? There are many curves here and four/five areas that need holding at once.

I had thought of CA and glueing it section by section: One wing root, the other wing root, one rear wing to fuselage seam ,other wing to fuselage seam, finally clamp down rear fuselage join. I recently got some lovely CA applicators by Uschi Van Der Rosten that I am sure can help me here. You can see them in this picture.

P1000237_zpsteiliqeq.jpg

Wait for clamping, pegs, elastic bands - any ideas?

Happy modelling and best regards

Tony

Edited to remove duplicate image (twice) and to correct all typo's apart from the one about 'getting the wig further aft'.

Edited by TonyTiger66
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Whilst we ponder, a first coat of paint has been applied to some parts with a hairy stick.

Although the restored examples show light blue fuselage walls and green suspended semi-floors, the majority of other accounts I have read online state that 'any shade of olive-tending' green is correct for I-16's of this vintage. Looking at other modellers choices, and a video of an I-15 interior of the same vintage, I chose something simply by eye. Mr. Colour 351 although not particularly grand as the 'Zinc Chromate Type 1' is is supposed to be (well - I don't think it's as bad as people say ;) ), looked about right, if a little dark , for the interior. Given none will be seen, I went for it.

Before:

P1000232_zpsqsil4stp.jpg

First coat:

P1000243_zpsmf3wd9zc.jpg

As you can see, a first coat also has been applied to the IP and Engine. A fresh tin of Humbrol 33 Matt Black was opened and stirred, thinned for this purpose.

We're going to revisit that engine/motor. Let's call it a motor from now on. :)

Edited for spelling

Edited by TonyTiger66
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The motor. It won't be seen at all you know. But it has to be done nicely all the same doesn't it? :mental:

As CedB so nicely put it - I had to 'chip away the bits that aren't David'. Here we have to substitute 'Motor' for 'David'. It's in there somewhere.

P1250196_zpsd8ojhvx2.jpg

That thing on the right is the propellor holding/rotating prongy wotsit. It doesn't fit at all. There is no hole in the engine. So - a hole was drilled out with the pin vice (1.5mm). Then the wotsit was fitted from the front to see if it would rotate, as it wouldn't fit from the back at all.

P1250204_zpsn6tymhko.jpg

It worked! :) It would rotate but fitted from the back we had a problem:

Pushed in as far as it will go.

So what do I have to fit into the prop?

P1250206_zpsk3ax75da.jpg

A big fat nothing.

Time to bring in the big boys:

P1250210_zpshufnvdaf.jpg

Drilled out until transparent from behind. Quite scary.

Then the motor is trimmed/cleaned up. A Swann Morton retractable scalpel with N0. 10 blade, a Trumpeter micro-saw and a Flexi File with the 280 grit band are employed:

P1250200_zpspfcad4ws.jpg

Getting there.

I love the Flexi-File for getting into difficult places. I don't use it a lot as the replacement 'bands' (or whatever they're called) are quite expensive and I can only find two stockists here in Oz.

P1250219_zpsdkfna5xn.jpg

I also drilled out the rear of the propellor to take the axle/spindle thingy - I cleaned up the propellor a lot, including scoring into the base of the blades with a "Bare Metal Foil' scriber to try to give a better impression of separate propellor and spinner:

P1250197_zpsc1wkwzjn.jpg

P1250201_zpsb45vmaso.jpg

Better?

P1250208_zpsegibfncu.jpg

Prods nicely into its behind :)

Righty ho. How does the spindle fit now?

P1250211_zpsbuhfgmfq.jpg

Nicely - just, and it rotates, plus we have enough for the prop.

I did have to drill out the cowl centre to allow the engine to fit into it.

P1250198_zpsu8kxpgwu.jpg

Final look at the motor:

P1250218_zpsboioo35x.jpg

It reminds me of 'Little Weed' from 'Bill and Ben'.

https://youtu.be/NLuU0wO5t8k

Is it just me, but what with 'Little Weed', lots of 'Flopadopalop' and talking vegetables, were the blokes at the BBC erm, a bit jolly? :elephant::shocked:

Well, that's it for today. I can't help but feel I'm going terribly slowly for a model of such a tiny plane, with so few parts.

Tomorrow I'll see what may have occurred to me/us regarding clamping it all together. I'll do an 'el-cheapo' seatbelt, finish up the interior and have a look at installing the engine, bulkhead and cowl front.

Thanks for reading and happy modelling!

Best regards

Tony

Edited to correct the auto-correct's mistakes.

Edited by TonyTiger66
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Wow, what progress - let's hope the sleepless nights will soon be gone :)

Those gaps are i m p r e s s i v e...! And yes, I was paying attention and noticed you posted the same photo twice (the one of the rear wing to fuselage gap). That said I don't know what other clamps you have whilst waiting for the Bernas (good choice) to arrive... I've used wire twists in the past, those things used to tie plastic freezer bags, but use the paper covered ones if you want to avoid accidents.

The interiors look good - I like the brushed effect myself, which I call 'weathering'. Never quite the same with an even coat IMHO.

Oops, just seen the post on the prop, spinner and engine - good work that man, you're really shaping those bits into an aircraft.

Now, go and tidy your room! :)

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Impressive clean up work there. Difficult to give advice on the clamping without actually having the pesky little thing in my mits...but I wouldn't recommend CA, it just doesn't have the strength. Proper plastic glue will give a much stronger bond. I think I'd go for doing it all at once....

Ian

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25936230694_fdc30427a1_o_d.jpg

There. I bet the pilot feels safer now.

Re your clamping woes, I have developed a technique over the years:

first of all, dry-fit with lots of masking tape. I think you've done it already and it's not going to get any better than this.

second, every fuselage half gets glued to the corresponding upper wing half. In this phase I check for dihedral and alignment.

third (but you can swap between second and third according to your preferences) the fuselage halves are mated forever.

Last, the lower wing half/halves (depending whether the plane is of mid- or low-wing construction) joins the rest.

This way, the worst gaps are left on the wing contour and underside.

It might be that the lower wing half is too flat and is causing the gap by spreading the wings apart. (That's what caused me to bin my first ever Russian kit, a Hobbycraft La-5. Tons of putty at the wing-fuselage join and the whole thing still looked just plain wrong).

Check the dihedral: I don't think the I-16 had much of it but I guess the wing upper surfaces would lie level.

If the wing tips are pointing down far too much, you can push them together with tape and glue in that position, then take care of the gaps. While you have the Dremel out, I don't know how thick it is (my educated guess: lots) but you can try and take out some plastic from the center underside so that it won't push back while everything sets together.

If the wing tips are in the correct position, then filling the gap with plastic card is your best bet. If you just fill it with putty, it will be forever cracking.

To put my money where my tongue is (or whatevr idioms is in use in these occasions) here's a partially completed Otaki Ki.61 (yes, I know, compared to an Amodel kit, it builds itself): wings to fuselage joins taken care of...

25936665814_fff79ca0aa_k_d.jpg

Wingtips pulled up with masking tape...

25938742523_12dea94a8b_k_d.jpg

In my experience I've seldom needed anything stronger than masking tape for this job. You might improve the fit af the lower wings by wrapping rubber band around the part, but beware that if glue seeps under the band it could ruin the surface detail ("Surface detail? What surface detail?" he asked, genuinely surprised).

BTW, yes, the kit was Amodel's Yak-17UTI, I'm afraid to tell. I can live with the under wing gaps (although I think cutting the parts in two, attaching the leading edge separately, and dealing with a gap in the middle of the wing might have been easier) but I haven't figured out how to mate the fuselage to the canopy yet. It's like they aren't even on speaking terms.

Edited by Bonehammer
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Hi again, Tony...As you'll surely know, ICM offers a nice 1/72 scale Type 17, wich can be easily backdated to Type 10 standards.

You can build your Amodel kit as a late Type 5, there were some of them flying during the SCW. They were fitted with Type 10, 22 ribs wings, but retained some early features such as the long span ailerons, canopy rails, two wing mounted machine guns and exhaust layout. Some examples were fitted with later Type 10 canopies but retained the early style telescopic gunsights. They were known as Type 6 here in Spain, an unofficlal type in the russian nomenclature. The canopies were locked in the open position, as the pilots found them to be very difficult to push them open just in case they needed to bail out from the plane.

Acording to some local sources, the early machines had grey/aluminium painted undersides, but the later ones were overpainted with local enamel paints, quite similar to Humbrol 115/114.

The cockpit interiors were light grey with gloss dark green tubular frames and pilot's seat (non armour protection until Type 10). That shade of green was called "John Deere green", for it came from local hardware supplies.

Both the undercarriage legs, hubcaps and wheel wells were painted matt black.

Hope this helps...!!!!!

Mosca.jpg

Edited by Artie
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Hello chaps. Well it's 3.49 am here in Oz and Ive actually had a sleepless night pondering many aspects of this build.
I've been sat at the table in the lounge with two huge books open getting, well, no further.
I log on to BM with my iPhone and find three splendid and helpful posts.
I'll reply to each individually tomorrow (ooops later today).
Meanwhile, although for the ICM kit (type 17), this looks rather splendid.

http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Modeling/Polikarpov/I-16/Aftermarket/Ace/

Oh dear, OOB is receding and I feel the pull of AMS... ;)

Thanks chaps, really good and kind help. We'll bash one into shape yet.

Best regards
Tony

Edited for spelling. Not 'darling' either you infernal little machine (that's what it suggested for 'spelling')!

Edited by TonyTiger66
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This is fascinating to watch, Tony! You're a stronger man than I...true short-run, this!

My dad built me the Hasegawa Ishak around the time the restored examples made their debut, the type was a real favourite of mine. I was lucky enough to see them fly at Wanaka in 2004-2008:

Ishak1_zps6661112e.jpg

But my favourite has been her biplane sister for a long time now:

Chaika1_zps77d388fa.jpg

Unfortunately the Polis of Wanaka are all gone - if you want to see and hear one fly you've got to go the US, Germany, Spain or Russia.

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Wow, what progress - let's hope the sleepless nights will soon be gone :)

Those gaps are i m p r e s s i v e...! And yes, I was paying attention and noticed you posted the same photo twice (the one of the rear wing to fuselage gap). That said I don't know what other clamps you have whilst waiting for the Bernas (good choice) to arrive... I've used wire twists in the past, those things used to tie plastic freezer bags, but use the paper covered ones if you want to avoid accidents.

The interiors look good - I like the brushed effect myself, which I call 'weathering'. Never quite the same with an even coat IMHO.

Oops, just seen the post on the prop, spinner and engine - good work that man, you're really shaping those bits into an aircraft.

Now, go and tidy your room! :)

Hi Ced, thank you for the tip with the 'bread tags'. I know exactly what you mean but unfortunately in this part of SE Queensland it is all little plastic 'claw' clips.

Nevertheless you gave me an idea. I have lots of single strand wire I thought 'would come in useful one day' :rolleyes: . Well, maybe it has - I thought of adapting your technique and wrapping this wire in, basically, loo roll :mental: and twisting it tight where needed. For attempt number 5, before the Berna clamps arrive, this seems a good option (in theory).

I've tidied my desk, but now it's tidy I can't find anything :winkgrin: .

Impressive clean up work there. Difficult to give advice on the clamping without actually having the pesky little thing in my mits...but I wouldn't recommend CA, it just doesn't have the strength. Proper plastic glue will give a much stronger bond. I think I'd go for doing it all at once....

Ian

Thanks Ian, OK I won't go down that road. I know what you mean - it's a brittle joint and not to be trusted in the long term, and that's what matters.

25936230694_fdc30427a1_o_d.jpg

There. I bet the pilot feels safer now.

In my experience I've seldom needed anything stronger than masking tape for this job. You might improve the fit af the lower wings by wrapping rubber band around the part, but beware that if glue seeps under the band it could ruin the surface detail ("Surface detail? What surface detail?" he asked, genuinely surprised).

BTW, yes, the kit was Amodel's Yak-17UTI, I'm afraid to tell. I can live with the under wing gaps (although I think cutting the parts in two, attaching the leading edge separately, and dealing with a gap in the middle of the wing might have been easier) but I haven't figured out how to mate the fuselage to the canopy yet. It's like they aren't even on speaking terms.

Crikey Bonehammer, I was in tears! :rofl: .

How did you do that? I want to incorporate it on a model... :fool: .

Now, your tip (more than a tip) on the fundamental construction sequence had me quite speechless. Fantastic. I can see how all this can and will work. Unfortunately attempt 5, the current WIP is beyond a change to this work sequence. I'm going to have to employ an adaptation of Ced's clamping with tags/wire technique now..I've gone too far.

Nevertheless, you have made me really think about revising the build sequence. To this end, I hadn't consigned attempt number 4 to the bin. I can still employ some of your method on it and I think you have helped me rescue it from my 'Drawer (not shelf) of doom). If the mods and no-one else minds, I would like to drag it out and now do this as a two aircraft build.

With Artie's advice below, I've changed a few things. So - what would have been '33' isn't suitable. I wave the white flag, if I don't change the wing ribs it must be later, so it will be CM-125, an aircraft featuring a nice 'Popeye' rudder illustration and hopefully late enough type 5 to warrant the late wing.

The 'once attempt 4' model will now become a captured aircraft (the first captured I-16); serial 1W-1. I'm going to be a little brave and try to revise the wings :banghead:.

As Magnus would say "I've started so I'll finish".

Hi again, Tony...As you'll surely know, ICM offers a nice 1/72 scale Type 17, wich can be easily backdated to Type 10 standards.

You can build your Amodel kit as a late Type 5, there were some of them flying during the SCW. They were fitted with Type 10, 22 ribs wings, but retained some early features such as the long span ailerons, canopy rails, two wing mounted machine guns and exhaust layout. Some examples were fitted with later Type 10 canopies but retained the early style telescopic gunsights. They were known as Type 6 here in Spain, an unofficlal type in the russian nomenclature. The canopies were locked in the open position, as the pilots found them to be very difficult to push them open just in case they needed to bail out from the plane.

Acording to some local sources, the early machines had grey/aluminium painted undersides, but the later ones were overpainted with local enamel paints, quite similar to Humbrol 115/114.

The cockpit interiors were light grey with gloss dark green tubular frames and pilot's seat (non armour protection until Type 10). That shade of green was called "John Deere green", for it came from local hardware supplies.

Both the undercarriage legs, hubcaps and wheel wells were painted matt black.

Hope this helps...!!!!!

Mosca.jpg

This is fascinating to watch, Tony! You're a stronger man than I...true short-run, this!

My dad built me the Hasegawa Ishak around the time the restored examples made their debut, the type was a real favourite of mine. I was lucky enough to see them fly at Wanaka in 2004-2008:

Ishak1_zps6661112e.jpg

But my favourite has been her biplane sister for a long time now:

Chaika1_zps77d388fa.jpg

Unfortunately the Polis of Wanaka are all gone - if you want to see and hear one fly you've got to go the US, Germany, Spain or Russia.

Hi Artie. Thanks so much. Everything you write has absolute credence in terms of the things I have seen and the research I have done so far. Moreover, the detail you have provided is excellent.

Today I revised the interior of two models, the now rescued 'attempt 4' and the current WIP. It is interesting that interior frames were painted in 'John Deere Green'. It is a tractor colour, of course widely available and very distinctive. It is quite lurid but also a corrosion inhibitor. Thus, it would make a lot of sense to paint major structural components in this colour. Moreover I have seen old videos of I-15 where this is clearly a cockpit colour, albeit on control column, frames.

The light grey makes sense, I love Lagg - 3 and these were light grey on IP and interior. Early soviet standards do not seem to deviate a lot. Only when WWII/Barbarossa commences does it really seem to diversify. Even Lagg -3 , Mig 1-3 were painted in a Russian 'Tractor Green' with black/night. In these times of economic hardship, it makes sense that internationally, 'tractor colours' were an economical superb anti corrosive solution.

I have given up on '33' for now, there are too many conflicting profiles and so far I have not found a single photograph of the aircraft. Bearing in mind the 'wing rib' issue, I propose CM-125. I'm sure a photo exists of it with less wing ribs, but let's pretend :winkgrin: .

I seek your advice: why on earth does the Amodel kit have 11 ribs on the lower wing and a multitude on the upper wing? Moreover why do many profiles show this? It seems quite crazy. Also - I have a photo of captured aircraft (No. 9?) type 5; 1W-1 and it clearly shows two tiny circular windows in the upper fuselage, forward of the cockpit. Many plans show these two tiny circular windows. I feel it os only the repaint on 1W-1 that allows these windows to be clearly seen, against a perhaps dark green background, this would be hard to detect.

Do you think the type 5's all had these tiny windows?

Finally, are there any photographs at all of a type 6 with the later windshield (rounded)? Some think a picture of Frank Tinker shows this (rounded windscreen, but older telescopic gunsight). I'm not so sure :hmmm:

Today I have mostly been painting tiny things. I hope to post more later. How do we feel about rescuing 'attempt 4' and making this a two aircraft WIP?

Thanks for all your advice and happy modelling

Best regards

Tony

Edited for syntax and spelling.

Edited by TonyTiger66
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This is fascinating to watch, Tony! You're a stronger man than I...true short-run, this!

My dad built me the Hasegawa Ishak around the time the restored examples made their debut, the type was a real favourite of mine. I was lucky enough to see them fly at Wanaka in 2004-2008:

Ishak1_zps6661112e.jpg

But my favourite has been her biplane sister for a long time now:

Chaika1_zps77d388fa.jpg

Unfortunately the Polis of Wanaka are all gone - if you want to see and hear one fly you've got to go the US, Germany, Spain or Russia.

Hi Zac.

Crikey that's deflated my balloon a little. :weep: . I didn't know all the I-16's had gone from NZ. I've been harping on to my wife for years about how much I wanted to go to Wanaka (and her home country). It's a shame they will be gone from Wanaka.

I hope there will still be a P-40 to see, and maybe a Corsair?

As for the I-15, I absolutely adore them. I have started an ICM kit, but I guess as you will see elsewhere on the 'net, the flipping cockpit assembly is really lovely and intricate, then doesn't fit in the fuselage in a pretty stress inducing way! Much detailing, much fine sawing, much painting and inserting of tiny windows, many gleeful smiles then. Oh dear. :hanging:

I think it will be the next build/rescue after this. I'll check with the mods, but I'm pretty sure it's nowhere near 25% done. Probably 10%, although at the time it felt more.

The 'Chato' is just lovely. Polikarpov was one cool designer. I hope one I-15 is available for Wanaka.

Best regards

Tony

Edited for spell checker auto- correct errors.

Edited by TonyTiger66
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Today was a rethink and revise day. I haven't done a lot, but at least I feel a little more of a foundation has been laid to help do something half OK with this kit. As in previous comments, I hope it's ok to introduce 'fail number 4' back in and make it a 'rescue' operation.

To that end, there is a little of it here and some of the new work. Work on what was '33' has mainly comprised of painting and a little filling. It was finally needed :blush: .
I did some research on the Shvetsov M 25 a Engine and found, pretty surprisingly, that blue was needed. A simple look at Wikipedia seems to confirm this, although I sought further confirmation.

I got this from an I-15 but I'm not sure that it's a Shvetsov 25.

galeria_I153_4-2_zpsjzm2ht66.jpg

Nevertheless this page (with a translator to English) really seems to suggest blue was involved:

http://legendary-aircraft.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/Konstrukcija-I-16.html

So I looked for a suitable blue. In the end I mixed one part Humbrol enamel 49 (gloss) with one part Humbrol enamel 89 (Matt). It isn't nearly as lurid as the photographs of the real thing would demand, but the 'FICE' rule apples. Anyone that doesn't know what the 'FICE' rule is, let me know ;)

P1250248_zpsouflhb4o.jpg

Also in that photo you can see I've had a little go at the IP with a Gunze Gundam Marker GM05. I think it is an aluminium shade. I toyed with the idea of an IP decal made from pictures in books, but faced reality - it just cannot be seen with a closed canopy, so this will do.

Also, the rear face of the propellor blades and the whole spinner have recieved an initial coat of Humbrol Enamel matt Black 33, as has the front cowling and associated intakes. I have done this now as I feel it will aid this particular build sequence. Next in this area I will try some Gunze 'Metal' steel for the propellor. I hope it works out ok - I may put a gloss black coat on the propellor front blades first to ensure a 'buffable' surface.

For the huge front cowl metal clasp I am considering a very fine strip of Bare Metal Foil steel. The instructions call out for Humbrol Metaliser Steel, but I just don't think that's going to work in such a small area.What do you think?


Painting revisions and the resurrection of 'attempt number 4' to follow chaps :)

Happy modelling

Tony

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Righty-ho. I hadn't got the right cockpit colours. Artie gave me solid advice, but I had a challenge - how on earth would I replicate John Deere Green. It is a really well known and rich shade. I looked through my myriad paint tins, bottle and dispensers and by (colourblind) eye, decided on two possible candidates. Tamiya XF-5 'Flat Green' and Humbrol 61...erm, green! :winkgrin: .

P1250261_zpsv6kjbqm6.jpg

I tried the Tamiya first, over the Mr Colour I had painted yesterday:

P1250244_zpsjwlo3zyu.jpg

I thought this was quite underpants. Big ones. Y fronts.

So I tried the Humbrol 61:

P1250262_zpsv2fmlqyi.jpg

Now I know you may think : "Aaaaagh!", but compered to copyrighted Photographs I can't put here (I think?) this looney, lurid green isn't far off. Thus I drilled out the handle of the control column (0.3mm HSS) and painted the lot. Given that it is Humbrol gloss, I will leave it 24 hours, then give it a coat of satin varnish. A little of it may be seen.

P1250263_zpskji7m9ei.jpg

As far as the cockpit sides are concerned, again i agree with Artie and chose a light grey. In this case, given the scale factor, I decided upon Mr Hobby 51 Light Gull Grey. I really base this upon Lagg-3 cockpit pictures I have seen, Massimo Tessitori's research and Artie's local knowledge. I hope it is ok.

The old olive shade is nearly gone:

P1250245_zpsoaig4ygs.jpg

I have to attend to family duties now, so I hope I can return later. If not there will be more fun (and tears) to post in around 14 hours.

Thank you for reading
Happy modelling

Tony



Edited by TonyTiger66
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Great progress Tony :)

Nice to see someone else using Humbrol filler - I love the stuff for bigger gaps and where some molding is required.

'FICE' rule? OK, I'll bite, what's the FICE rule? Is it "The "economic loss" rule is a court-created doctrine which prohibits the extension of tort recovery for cases in which a product has damaged only itself and there is no personal injury or damage to other property and the losses or damages are economic in nature."?

If so, very appropriate! :)

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Bit late for this build, but I've done a few Amodel Polikarpovs (currently doing the 'hotrod' I-180)- and it looks like Amodel mould the wing/fuselage similarly in all of them.

After much experiment, I actually found that gluing the fuselage sides to the wing roots before joining the fuselage halves worked well. It left a massive gap on the top of the fuselage, but this was much easier to make good than the hard-to-reach wing roots.

I reckon you'll crack this one- the hard bit's done now!

Will

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