A 1/72 Amodel I-16 Type 5 Spanish Civil War (without a bucket of filler?).

[Antoine]

did you notice my phone just went French again? It does that ever since I dropped it in salad dressing....

Does this to me all the time, double check often necessary.

I like your little donkey very much, but I see you're battling with putty armed with flexifiles.

How about using this, and the flexifiles are gone, at least for 90% when putty's needed.

[TonyTiger66]

Does this to me all the time, double check often necessary.

I like your little donkey very much, but I see you're battling with putty armed with flexifiles.

How about using this, and the flexifiles are gone, at least for 90% when putty's needed.

Hi Antoine. Many thanks I have multiple language keyboards set up on my phone. My screen is damaged at the lower corners, it often thinks I have clicked on the 'globe' to the left of the space key, then changes languages. . It's reassuring to know this happens to other people too.

I have PPP but up to now haven't had good results with it. It doesn't seem to like fine wet and dry paper, e.g. 1500 grit. Yet I feel I have been doing something wrong.

After your suggestion this evening I decided to try it again on the wing roots of one of my LaGG 3s, the Roden kit.

I'll put the results over in the build thread for those models tomorrow, I've smoothed the PPP with a little water and I decided (as it's now 11.50pm here) to leave it overnight.

It would be lovely if it worked!

Thanks for prodding me to try with it again

Happy modelling

Tony

[Antoine]

I also think its not that good with everything, it depend on the type of work and on the place where its located.

But for simple filling, it"s usually ok, the secret being to let it dry enough once the shape you want is achieved.

Remember, you don't need sand paper with it, you only have to smooth it with some cotton bud dipped in water.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Antoine

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Here;s my preferred PPP application & removal method:

FWIW

[TonyTiger66]

Thanks chaps.

Now we've identified where I've been going wrong. I've been treating it like other fillers, letting it dry (it dries very hard ) then trying to sand it. It really doesn't like being sanded.

Is that a Focke-Wulf helicopter Sarge? Looks quite nifty

I'll get the wet earbud out in a few hours.

Now where else would one find a sentence like that?

Best regards

Tony

[Sgt.Squarehead]

It's a Japanese thing: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234998186-kayaba-ha-go-o-go-model-1/

I squirt a blob of PPP onto a bit of paper, apply it to the model with a cocktail stick and then almost immediately start to clean up with a cotton bud.....Repeat as required or use this to fill the gap then finish off with a skim of Mr.Surfacer.

[Artie]

Looks like the fuselage of a Focke Wulw FW56 Stosser....

[TonyTiger66]

I thought it was this one Sarge, but apparently the American Kellet.auto gyro was the pattern for it. I like auto gyros, a lot

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_186

That sounds like a good technique for the PPP. Thanks

The nozzle provided is wasteful and useless; the cocktail stick is a much better idea. I'm at the stage of dealing with ridges in surfaces, so a good thick Surfacer is what I need for e.g. The UTI-4. I've been using Mr. Surfacer, but that has been giving a little grief too. It seems very hard to find a grade of sandpaper that will feather the edges.

I keep having to go to 800 grit, but I wish it would feather with 1200 or 1500. Tamiya fine white putty just comes off, won't feather and also seems to be able to melt some plastics a bit. So; I'm currently using very thin layers of good old Humbrol.

I've heard the Vallejo is good.

I'm open to all suggestions on fillers and surfaces; 80% of my stash is short run kits!

Best regards

Tony

Edited to include missing link to Focke-Wulf autogiro.

[CedB]

Fillers? I'm still looking for the 'perfect one' that magically fills gaps in one go and disappears under the primer, but for me (so far) it's

- Humbrol for ejector marks and larger holes because you can shape it as it goes off and it sands well

- Vallejo for small gaps like wing roots because you can wipe it off when it's nearly dry with a damp cotton bud (which you need to do as I've found it doesn't vanish if you have excess)

- Citadel Liquid Green Stuff for fuselage seams and small dings because it cleans up with water and sands really well (and goes on nicely with a little water)

- PPP for bigger gaps for immediate clean up as suggested above. Still getting used to this and yes, the nozzle wastes loads so I apply it with a stick / small spatula.

I've tried 'sprue soup' but my mix (currently) dries shiny and is hard to sand.

I've tried CA and Roket powder and that doesn't sand at all but is probably good for deep holes as long as you leave a top surface to fill with something less hard.

I've got Lilliput because Nigel uses it - yet to be deployed.

HTH

[The Spadgent]

Fillers? I'm still looking for the 'perfect one' that magically fills gaps in one go and disappears under the primer, but for me (so far) it's

- Humbrol for ejector marks and larger holes because you can shape it as it goes off and it sands well

- Vallejo for small gaps like wing roots because you can wipe it off when it's nearly dry with a damp cotton bud (which you need to do as I've found it doesn't vanish if you have excess)

- Citadel Liquid Green Stuff for fuselage seams and small dings because it cleans up with water and sands really well (and goes on nicely with a little water)

- PPP for bigger gaps for immediate clean up as suggested above. Still getting used to this and yes, the nozzle wastes loads so I apply it with a stick / small spatula.

I've tried 'sprue soup' but my mix (currently) dries shiny and is hard to sand.

I've tried CA and Roket powder and that doesn't sand at all but is probably good for deep holes as long as you leave a top surface to fill with something less hard.

I've got Lilliput because Nigel uses it - yet to be deployed.

HTH

Hi Ced. I'm trying to find a good filler at the moment, I have Revell "plasto" it was recommended by a model shop but it seems to dry really quickly and not give a great Finnish. Do any of you guys used Plasto? Just wondering as no one seems to ever mention it.

John.

[Artie]

- Humbrol for ejector marks and larger holes because you can shape it as it goes off and it sands well

- Vallejo for small gaps like wing roots because you can wipe it off when it's nearly dry with a damp cotton bud (which you need to do as I've found it doesn't vanish if you have excess)

100% agree.......

anyway, the best filler is called sanding, dry fitting, sanding, dry fitting, sandind..... :banghead:

[TonyTiger66]

Fillers? I'm still looking for the 'perfect one' that magically fills gaps in one go and disappears under the primer, but for me (so far) it's

- Humbrol for ejector marks and larger holes because you can shape it as it goes off and it sands well

- Vallejo for small gaps like wing roots because you can wipe it off when it's nearly dry with a damp cotton bud (which you need to do as I've found it doesn't vanish if you have excess)

- Citadel Liquid Green Stuff for fuselage seams and small dings because it cleans up with water and sands really well (and goes on nicely with a little water)

- PPP for bigger gaps for immediate clean up as suggested above. Still getting used to this and yes, the nozzle wastes loads so I apply it with a stick / small spatula.

I've tried 'sprue soup' but my mix (currently) dries shiny and is hard to sand.

I've tried CA and Roket powder and that doesn't sand at all but is probably good for deep holes as long as you leave a top surface to fill with something less hard.

I've got Lilliput because Nigel uses it - yet to be deployed.

HTH

Thanks Ced, that's a great guide for just about all uses. . The liquid green stuff sound useful, I like the 'sands very well' part. It's missing from my arsenal (fnar) so I'll have to hunt that one out.

I'm getting used to auto-correct and I think 'Lilliput' is 'Milliput', although the former would be a nice name for a product that helped build 1/100 diorama buildings .

I haven't found a use for it yet, but recently bought some as I see so many people doing lots of very different things with it here on BM.

The Humbrol stuff really is rather excellent, it can seem a bit coarse, yet it smooths down very nicely indeed.

The Tamiya was recommended to me; it's rather like warm toothpaste, it even looks the same! I used to like it a lot, but since it melted a wing root a bit, I haven't used it much. It was actually my fault, I applied it too thickly.

I haven't tried the Revell stuff John, their products are usually pretty good (their paints are growing on me, especially the enamels); it would be interesting to see how you get on with it.

Artie is right about the dry fitting. There are just some kits that, no matter how much sanding a dry fitting, just refuse to co-operate. I don't know why the manufacturers do it to us ?

We're not off topic discussing filler in this thread, it's in the title so feel free to discuss away.

That suggestion has nothing to do with some extremely strange stuff, and photos I'm scared to post, in relation to wing ribs. Utter madness has now taken hold

Happy sanding and filling

Tony

[TonyTiger66]

I just noticed. 15 pages ! Time to get one finished methinks.

TT

[Sgt.Squarehead]

If you ever need to resculpt something you will discover the value of Milliput, stick a blob where you need it, let it set up for ten minutes, then dampen your wax-carvers and dive right in.....When it dries, it dries hard and I do mean hard! It can then be filed and sanded with confidence, assuming you mixed it properly in the first place.

Just found this:

Try doing that with Squadron Green!

[CedB]

Who are you? Oh, a new avatar, got it...

Lilliput? What the...? I corrected that I thought but ho hum...

I now have Milliput (it did it again, time to teach it a lesson!) standard, black and white (superfine). One day I might actually open the packets and use it!

As well as the liquid green stuff (recommended by Stew) I've also got some Citadel Green Stuff (two part) which I've used for 'T Tommy' but didn't get on with that well. Both are from Games Workshop - hope you can pick some up down under (fnaar!)

[TonyTiger66]

Thanks Sarge. I went on to look at a few YouTube videos on using Milliput. It gave me a few ideas, especially where the stuff was being rolled into thin sheets. I can think of a few situations where it would have been useful recently, wing root intakes on my Roden LaGG 3 is one. I'll know for next time

Thanks Ced I have to make sure my phone doesn't correct to 'Lilliput' too! Yes, I changed my avatar. I hope Tony the Tiger is ok? On modelling days when things don't quite go to plan, I couldn't quite reconcile what I was typing with a picture of myself smiling inanely back at me from my previous avatar ! I decided to choose something light hearted that will make me smile when I need a boost

I did an Internet search for Citadel and found a supplier 7km away. I also found a Games Workshop and they do deliveries for a reasonable price. I quite like the look of the seam line removal tool you have from them, so I'll probably put in an order to get some filler and the tool, and some flesh paints, all at once

Our internet has been 'throttled' . My daughter spent her last 2 weeks school holidays watching the entirety of the TV series 'Friends' on an Internet service called 'Stan'. As a result, all of our one terabyte allowance has been used up .

All of my photos are on the iMac, I can't use this iPhone for photos due to its 'salad dressing' related past. So, I can't upload any pictures to Photowotsit. Well, I tried. One photograph took 29 minutes!

Our internet allowance resets on the 25th. Meanwhile I'm going to try tethering this iPhone to the iMac as I have a 3 Gig data allowance I never use. That will be fine and more than enough for my photographs.

I will be back soon with ribbing madness

Best regards

Tony

PS: How she could sit through all those episodes of 'Friends' is beyond me. I didn't find any of it funny. I'm definitely turning into a grumpy old man !

[CedB]

I used to enjoy Friends when it was first on, but now the canned laughter drives me nuts (grumpy old man here too).

Oh, and memories of Monica... ... ... Sorry, what? Ms Cox is now, sadly, off my list.

[TonyTiger66]

I used to enjoy Friends when it was first on, but now the canned laughter drives me nuts (grumpy old man here too).

Oh, and memories of Monica... ... ... Sorry, what? Ms Cox is now, sadly, off my list.

Oh Ced, canned laughter . Recently Mrs T obtained M*A*S*H on DVD (many!) and we couldn't understand why it was so much better. Then I figured it out:

*No* canned laughter.

We have no idea how we managed to get this boxed DVD set with no canned laughter but it is bliss; the whole series takes on another aspect and one does indeed laugh, but not due to being prompted. Simply laughing due to good writing. The whole series is far darker than it may seem given the inane jolly laughter layered on top in the TV releases.

Crikey; America was scared of showing the public the reality of war. God bless Alan Alda

Righto folks, I really *have* been working on these lovely Moscas, but in a way that would bore you (and me) rigid. I've been chasing paint around them.

I'm not good at masking. Look:

And look :

So I have spent two weeks chasing myself round Popeye trying to be a 'good masker'. Why so slow? For some reason the Alclad gloss black on the cowl seems to take forever to dry and the Gunz acrylic 'Red Madder' really does not like Tamiya masking tape at all, and the residue does not clean off, even with just distilled water..

My ineptitude in masking seemed to go on forever:

Well, I have probably chased my ineptitude senseless and hope my next pictures will show that all is ready for undercarriage and detailing

Meanwhile, 1W*1 and the ribs.

OK, I went for it having only half thought it out.

I had some 10 thou " rod pieces.

I decided to first, fold them to create a 'leading edge' crease, then to attach them to the aircraft aligned with the underwing rib positions. After all, if this is to be an even semi-ok model, the under surface rib positions *must* match the upper ones. Here is a piece of 10 thou rod, magnified a lot. As you will have realised by now, madness in only the way we modellers know, had commenced :

Here are the underwing rib locations I need to use as absolute reference points:

First one done using thick CA, my hands for around 90 seconds, patience and the leading edge fold:

Three done. By now, given the alignment issues, holding them in place, the glue, everything, I had given up the will to live:

I slowly progressed to eight or nine. It is important to try this to know how ludicrously fiddly and mind numbing it is. Between positioning/rolling/leading edge/glue setting time/cocktail stick/light/eyes it is quite interesting.

Photo bucket won't allow me to see what I'm uploading, but intuitively I believe it is around 8-9 bits of 10 thou" rod attached (only) to a leading edge:

At this point I became brown sugared, in that I couldn't find the rest of the pack of my 10 thou rods . That halted play for a while, but around a week later, they emerged in the box of a 'Drawer of Doom' model. Here re the final three rods attached:

The next step is to fold these babies over the wing. By the way; after all, this is where the ribs are needed! Well, it starts off looking like a very bad hair day::

I pondered hard and long over how to glue these to the wing upper. I needed a nice smooth ribbed effect. I couldn't see Polystyrene cement, in any incarnation, helping me. White glue would simply peel, Mr. Surfacer would probably not hold them in place and would at the very least, end up as 'Mr. Blobby'. Some inner brain process told me thick CA was the choice. I am still not sure if it is a good choice, but that is what has been used:

So

I started securing ''ribs' from the wing innermost positions. It just was easier. Also the outermost rib, unhelpfully, fell off. .

Once all were in place, I decided to coat them all with thick CA. I'm not sure why. I think I wanted them to lie flat. I asked them and they told me that's what they wanted, so I helped them:

And the rest:

I left all this to set, around three days ago. I have to trim the leading edge as the ribs start to appear aft of the leading edge metal panelled section. I also have to trim the aileron bits off. Then I have to try to blend it all in.

I suspect all this may be utter madness but if any of you have comments, either confirmatory or not, please feel free

Thanks for watching folks,

Best wishes

Tony

[The Spadgent]

Mad as a brush but I love it. ribs look super straight, I hope they work out alright.

We have free WiFi here so I get to keep up with you guys.

John

[The Spadgent]

By the way Tony. On the masking front. Is the faded black paint just past the cowl overshoot past the masking? Tell me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs but you can stick plain paper or plastic or whatever to the outer edge to stop overshoot. Sorry if you know all this but I'm in a field and really want to make some plastic dance.

[Brandy]

You're certifiably nuts...but what a fighter!

Personally I would have used very thin plastic rod if I was really going to follow this path at all...at least I could then just sand it down to blend it in! Check out my Ilya Muromets build

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234973036-172-ilya-muromets-maquettescratchbuilt/?hl=%2Bilya+%2Bmuromets

to see how I added the wing rib batons....although I wouldn't use that method to just show the ridges formed by the ribs. By covering it all in CA you are now back at square one...in that you have to smooth it all off and blend it in again! Try to stop thinking of this as a car and smothering it..you only have to remove it all again later! Less is more.......

Still watching and cheering from the sidelines....

Ian

[TonyTiger66]

By the way Tony. On the masking front. Is the faded black paint just past the cowl overshoot past the masking? Tell me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs but you can stick plain paper or plastic or whatever to the outer edge to stop overshoot. Sorry if you know all this but I'm in a field and really want to make some plastic dance.

Hi John! Thanks, don't worry about suggesting stuff, even if I know it, it can't hurt I think I know what you mean, and I think somewhere in my airbrush journey I realised I could use paper etc.

This is still only my first airbrushed plane so it's all learning and any tips most welcome

To be honest, in the UK around 14 years ago (I might have mentioned this; going senile you know ) I built an Airfix Stirling as a birthday present for my dad. Grandad served as wireless operator in one during WWII. Grandad had died recently so this was to make dad feel better. I did airbrush that one.

I was widowed and single at the time, my method will indicate what happens to widowers on their own.

I airbrushed it using: the bath. An old bed sheet in the bath. Humbrol enamels (Black, Dark Green, Dark Earth). A Revell £15.00 airbrush from Hobbyzone (no expense spared eh? ). A car wheel with associated tyre, *in the bathroom*, as my pressure source for the airbrush. A hose, an adaptor kit to enable me to use the tyre. A foot pump for the tyre. Yes people, this is what happens when men 'lose the plot' slightly

Needless to say, although I had few visitors, the airbrushing went well and I masked it off using lots of plastic bag 'bits', Tesco shopping bags if I remember correctly. I wouldn't have wasted Waitrose bags, Sainsburys was too far away and I'm not sure Netto have them at all ?

I seem to have wandered off topic. What's your favourite supermarket bag for masking a Stirling in the bath, whilst spraying it using a 165/13 Dunlop Radial at 35 psi? :fish:

Erm.

A yes, models. So this is technically my second airbrushing attempt, but because I have a memory like the goldfish above (it hasn't always been this way ..... ) I forget such things. Plus there's no Tesco here. Or Waitrose. Or Sainsbury's. Ah for the green fields and Oak Trees of England. For Sparrows, Starlings, Foxes, Badgers, early morning dew and multi vehicle road rage pile ups on the M6 .

How I miss it all.

I actually had 'under spray' on Popeye. I had been masking using paper towels :

To try to avoid what I think is overspray, but my airbrush managed to blow the masking tape off of the cowl and paint then went underneath !

Also paper towel is porous. So if a bit of red paint should slop out of the gravity feed cup onto it due to an over zealous hobbyist, it will soak through and leave red blobby marks beneath. That are hard to remove. A picture above shows the aftermath of this particular occurrence

It's fighting every inch of the way, the LaGGs are co-operating in their own way, my DC-9 is being quite kind and although I've lost the instructions for it my fuel bowser is generally content. These I-16's? They've got spirit. .

I won't be defeated!

I'm just off for a nice lie down with some slices of cucumber on my eyes

All the best John

Tony

Edited to correct autocorrect which has a wicked sense of humour.

[TheBaron]

Regarding your wing rib madness. If nobody tried these mad things we'd still be carving balsa. With hyena bones..I love watching somebody's brainwave take physical form. It doesn't matter even if it doesn't work (I'm sure you'll ace this BTW), it's what makes modelling interesting for me, seeing Homo sapiens inventing tools

Your airbrushing bath anecdote made me feel better about eyeing up the fact that our shower has an extractor fan and wipe clean surfaces....

Nice work Tony,

Tony

[The Spadgent]

Hi John! Thanks, don't worry about suggesting stuff, even if I know it, it can't hurt I think I know what you mean, and I think somewhere in my airbrush journey I realised I could use paper etc.

This is still only my first airbrushed plane so it's all learning and any tips most welcome

To be honest, in the UK around 14 years ago (I might have mentioned this; going senile you know ) I built an Airfix Stirling as a birthday present for my dad. Grandad served as wireless operator in one during WWII. Grandad had died recently so this was to make dad feel better. I did airbrush that one.

I was widowed and single at the time, my method will indicate what happens to widowers on their own.

I airbrushed it using: the bath. An old bed sheet in the bath. Humbrol enamels (Black, Dark Green, Dark Earth). A Revell £15.00 airbrush from Hobbyzone (no expense spared eh? ). A car wheel with associated tyre, *in the bathroom*, as my pressure source for the airbrush. A hose, an adaptor kit to enable me to use the tyre. A foot pump for the tyre. Yes people, this is what happens when men 'lose the plot' slightly

Needless to say, although I had few visitors, the airbrushing went well and I masked it off using lots of plastic bag 'bits', Tesco shopping bags if I remember correctly. I wouldn't have wasted Waitrose bags, Sainsburys was too far away and I'm not sure Netto have them at all ?

I seem to have wandered off topic. What's your favourite supermarket bag for masking a Stirling in the bath, whilst spraying it using a 165/13 Dunlop Radial at 35 psi? :fish:

Erm.

A yes, models. So this is technically my second airbrushing attempt, but because I have a memory like the goldfish above (it hasn't always been this way ..... ) I forget such things. Plus there's no Tesco here. Or Waitrose. Or Sainsbury's. Ah for the green fields and Oak Trees of England. For Sparrows, Starlings, Foxes, Badgers, early morning dew and multi vehicle road rage pile ups on the M6 .

How I miss it all.

I actually had 'under spray' on Popeye. I had been masking using paper towels :

To try to avoid what I think is overspray, but my airbrush managed to blow the masking tape off of the cowl and paint then went underneath !

Also paper towel is porous. So if a bit of red paint should slop out of the gravity feed cup onto it due to an over zealous hobbyist, it will soak through and leave red blobby marks beneath. That are hard to remove. A picture above shows the aftermath of this particular occurrence

It's fighting every inch of the way, the LaGGs are co-operating in their own way, my DC-9 is being quite kind and although I've lost the instructions for it my fuel bowser is generally content. These I-16's? They've got spirit. .

I won't be defeated!

I'm just off for a nice lie down with some slices of cucumber on my eyes

All the best John

Tony

Edited to correct autocorrect which has a wicked sense of humour.

Luckily I didn't mention the dirty knife.

[CedB]

Made me smile Tony... Tyres in the bath...

Cling film for fill in masking? I use Tamiya burnished down for the edges and cheap DIY tape behind that for the fill in.