A 1/72 Amodel I-16 Type 5 Spanish Civil War (without a bucket of filler?).

[amblypygid]

I don't know what to type, Tony. Are you accumulating good karma, or releasing bad?

[CedB]

Hi Tony.

You're not the only one to have problems with Alclad bottles... Procopius has a photo somewhere of his escapade and, like you, his clothes did not survive!

Your recovery skills are certainly up to the job and they're looking good again.

The Valom looks interesting and I'll watch that one with interest and a little trepidation!

[The Spadgent]

Oh my good lord. I couldn't like the "Black" post as it was too painful, you seem to be recovering well however. One word of advice, fill your airbrush away from your build just in case something bad happens. Ask me how I know? Also if you are using pots definitely use a glass pippet, like an ear dropper for the thinner and maybe a plastic coffee stirrer for the paint drops. That way you don't have to clean the dropper every 5 seconds. I hope it all comes good in the end kid.

All the best.

John.

[AdrianMF]

Goodness me! You have been in the wars...

I admire your persistence. When they look good, they look very nice indeed.

Maybe you need two separate rooms for modelling - one for all your paints and one for the models. That should lessen the risk of spillage and do wonders for your fitness with all the walking between the two rooms...

Regards,

Adrian

[TonyTiger66]

I don't know what to type, Tony. Are you accumulating good karma, or releasing bad?

I hope it's the former Chris In all honesty every little challenge is honestly a good learning experience. I can see how all the blunders have occurred and it really is all down to having to be more patient, anticipate *everything* that can go wrong and, erm, being a total clot .

[TonyTiger66]

Hi Tony.

You're not the only one to have problems with Alclad bottles... Procopius has a photo somewhere of his escapade and, like you, his clothes did not survive!

Your recovery skills are certainly up to the job and they're looking good again.

The Valom looks interesting and I'll watch that one with interest and a little trepidation!

Thank you Ced The recoveries are getting faster now, there's almost a set of 'mental notes'. A procedure to follow to assess what the recovery entails. With 'Popeye' the recovery has been quite pleasurable and relatively fast. The UTI-4 has been quite a recovery, an almost 'star from scratch' experience.

At the start of this thread, the UTI-4 was quite near to completion but, strangely is now way behind Popeye, the one that has been built from ground zero. I wouldn't have predicted that.

As I type the colour 'blue-violet' is drying on 'Popeye' on the bench

It would be good to have you along for the 'big Fokker' Ced

[TonyTiger66]

Oh my good lord. I couldn't like the "Black" post as it was too painful, you seem to be recovering well however. One word of advice, fill your airbrush away from your build just in case something bad happens. Ask me how I know? Also if you are using pots definitely use a glass pippet, like an ear dropper for the thinner and maybe a plastic coffee stirrer for the paint drops. That way you don't have to clean the dropper every 5 seconds. I hope it all comes good in the end kid.

All the best.

John.

Thanks John All this knowledge we accrue. Then, with top chaps like you, share it. It makes BM a great place and the hobby very pleasurable.

Yes, the BLACK experience was, erm, different. My wife was amazed in that when it happened, rather than clean it up immediately, I got her to help me take pictures of it 'for the lads' .

Our local 'dollar store' is out of the plastic droppers I've been using, think I'll just bite the bullet and order some from an online hobby store. The one in Victoria that I feel know me too well!

I like the coffee stirrer idea; it will be used, thanks John

[TonyTiger66]

Goodness me! You have been in the wars...

I admire your persistence. When they look good, they look very nice indeed.

Maybe you need two separate rooms for modelling - one for all your paints and one for the models. That should lessen the risk of spillage and do wonders for your fitness with all the walking between the two rooms...

Regards,

Adrian

Thanks Adrian I'm still enjoying the battle, that's the main thing. I like your idea about the two rooms.

I'm a little spoilt as I've been given the entire (enclosed) front veranda of the home as my modelling, stash and computer space. The computer is in an entirely different area of this to my modelling space. After your suggestion, I feel a rethink is necessary. I have a large workbench/desk, I feel maybe I should now divide it into two sections, one for building and sanding, one for painting.

I've already bought (but not had much success building) some MIG paint racks to free up some space and become more organised. You must have a crystal ball regarding my need to excercise! My great weakness is best summed up by this

Maybe I should saw the desk in half and put the painting section at least 10 paces away....

Righty ho everyone, I need to upload some pictures. ThIngs to post include another attempt at/technique for, wing ribs, the recovery and painting of 'Popeye' (I think maybe it looks nice again Adrian ) and a start on undercarriage. Some nice resin wheels arrived from the big H in the UK, well worth the money.

Thanks for reading, pictures and a proper update soon,

Happy modelling

Tony

[CedB]

Looking forward to the Fokker Tony - let us have a link from here when you start please so I don't miss it.

[perdu]

Tony

I missed some of these because (to overdo the honesty) WW2 and thereabouts Russian gear isnt my bag

But I always spend some of my model downtime pondering the great models hereabouts in BM so I popped into the last page

Then terrified, I went back in search of BLACK...

Wish I hadnt, oh mate that is not a good thing to happen

(nor are those things that happened to the models before they got HERE)

After studying the last few pages I decided to relaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Tony, you are going to win big time on these

Well done, very well done

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Your battles with the Airfix Auster and Tony's in here have a few things in common don't they.....It's the stuff of high darma and makes for great spectator sport, way better than say, football!

[TonyTiger66]

Tony

I missed some of these because (to overdo the honesty) WW2 and thereabouts Russian gear isnt my bag

But I always spend some of my model downtime pondering the great models hereabouts in BM so I popped into the last page

Then terrified, I went back in search of BLACK...

Wish I hadnt, oh mate that is not a good thing to happen

(nor are those things that happened to the models before they got HERE)

After studying the last few pages I decided to relaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Tony, you are going to win big time on these

Well done, very well done

Thank you Perfu, very kind words

It's amazing how little of the Alclad black it took to make all that mess; it has amazing coverage powers, I'll give it that!

Yup, winning these little blighters. A while back Artie gave me some good advice, in essence; to simplify my expectations a bit. Trying too many new techniques at once seems to lead to blunders

I still wish the wing was wired onto 'Popeye' but it's holding out so far.

Thanks for reading and popping over!

Best regards

Tony

[TonyTiger66]

Your battles with the Airfix Auster and Tony's in here have a few things in common don't they.....It's the stuff of high darma and makes for great spectator sport, way better than say, football!

That had me laughing out loud at 2am!

Good job Mrs. Tiger has a chest infection and is in the spare room! Er, oops, what did I just say about my wife?

No, it's terrible that she's got a chest infection and is in the spare room

Of course BM muddling is far better than football!

Best regards

Tony

[TonyTiger66]

So, it's 6.13 am in a small corner of deepest South East Queensland. Time for an early update on these little aircraft.

First, ribs. Not spare ribs or broken ribs but wing ribs.

I tried without success to laminate an 11 rib upper surface onto the port wing earlier in this thread. I also tried thick paint. I received lots of positive suggestions on other possible methods.

There are two more I'm interested in; firstly foil tape with the ribs gently 'written' into the back with a ball point pen. Secondly: to try thin strips of masking tape for the ribs, then paint over with thick paint, primer or Mr Surfacer and sand back and rescribe later.

I haven't been able to get hold of any foil tape yet, so I decided to try the tape method first. I also don't have any 1mm thick (thin) tape, so it was time to make my own.

I'm going to go through this 'Blue Peter' style. I'm not sure if I'll end up using a coat hanger, a used Fairy Liquid bottle or a pair of Val's old knickers, but you never know, anything can happen on this thread

First I needed some glass. I went to my local Salvation Army charity store and purchased two picture frames. One large, one small. I intended to use the glass from the small one, but clot that I am didn't realise it was clear plastic until I got home. Well, no problem, that frame becomes the base for my Vignette in the GB.

Meanwhile, here we have a huge piece of sharp edged brittle glass flexing on my mainly melted cutting mat:

Following on in the true spirit of health and safety I decided the next thing I needed was a metal ruler and a scalpel. My ruler had rusted due to the splendid humidity in this sub-tropical part of our little planet, so the first step was to sand the rust off so that I had a nice clean edge for the scalpel to move along:

In that picture it's possible to see two long strips of 5mm thick Tamiya tape, taped to the glass ready for slicing. I decided long, even strips would be better than trying to get consistent width strips from shorter lengths.

I didn't want any snagging or rips, so time for a fresh scalpel blade, purchased from a 'man that can' in the place they are made; Sheffield, UK:

I have no idea what my postman thinks when he delivers me envelopes from England with the words: "Sterile Surgical Implements" boldly inscribed on the 'Customs Declaration".

Using the now smooth straight edge of the metalworking ruler I went as close to the edge of the tape as I could, pressed evenly and gently but firmly, I cut narrow strips:

I discarded the first one as, given they were intended to make sharp wing ribs, the edge of the tape is a bit 'fluffy', so the second and subsequent slices were used:

So, there I had three long strips of DIY wing rib material.

I couldn't guarantee that the rib positions on plans would match that of the existing under wing positions on the Amodel kit, so I decided to just lead these 'tapes' from beneath, over the leading edge, over the wing top and meeting up with the lower ribs at the trailing edge:

This photo made me realise that the outer most 'rib' was too thick; it was changed. Also I noticed a step in the leading edge of the wing.

Earlier in this thread I discussed how this step can be negated in this kit by sanding away the front of the aileron and back of the wing halves. I had started this kit before I worked out that method, so in this case, some leading edge reshaping will occur later.

I then used a large piece of tape to effectively 'clamp' down these ribs like a gate:

I lined this up to correspond with where the ribs actually appear on the aircraft wing. It could then act as a mask whilst I painted Mr. Surfacer 500 over the ribs:

I applied it thickly but it settled down well once dry:

I applied another coat and after leaving overnight to dry:

I started sanding to see if I could make the strips look more like ribs. Unfortunately one of the masking strips surfaced and snagged off

It's the 6th one in from the wing tip. It's also possible to see that they're all surfacing and Im not really getting the 'peaked' profile I want. My strips were too wide.

Ever optimistic I tried a 'repair rib':

And here we have the wing after another coat of Mr. Surfacer, and removal of the masking strip from the leading edge:

I really wasn't impressed. I could see where I had gone wrong. The strips weren't narrow enough and the wing needed sanding down more so the rib tapes wouldn't stand so proud. If anyone can spot anywhere else I went wrong, please let me know.

I know this method can work, but I definitely blundered this one.

I decided that I should try again, but this time with some Slaters 10 thou plastic 'rod', which in fact is more like hair:

I thought I had lost this; I've been searching for it for weeks. It turned up in the box of a Special Hobby Lockheed Vega, currently residing in the Drawer of Doom, due to a lost canopy. This stuff looks like it might make finer and better ribs:

It has a kink in it from being folded in the Lockheed Vega box. I decided to use this to my advantage at the point at which the individual rods fold over the leading edge and glue onto the ribs on the wing underside.

I haven't gone any further with this yet, I'm going to try it on the starboard wing.

A final bit if detail work I have done for 1W*1 was to make some tiny exhaust stacks from 0.8mm brass rod:

It doesn't matter that they're uneven in length as they vanish into the dark recess of the cowl with only the tip showing. I have gently filed the ends to around a 30 degree angle to try to emulate the way the stacks look on the real thing.

Here are the clunky kit stacks (top) compared to my scratch brass efforts below:

The observant will have noticed that the carpet monster has swallowed one of each!

I hope they will look ok. I know progress is a little glacial on 1W*1 but I also hope it leads to less mistakes and a better model. I will be using wire pins for the stabilisers and wings and filler will be applied far more sparingly, and with masks

I'll post more later today (it will be early tomorrow European time), this time showing Popeye in Green, blue, red, yellow and 'violet azul', and showing how it got to look like that.

Undercarriage, a canopy and a scratch built gunsight will also feature!

Thanks for reading and all the kind and helpful comments,

Best regards

Tony

[CedB]

Pity the tape didn't work out Tony but good luck with the rod.

Those exhausts look good too

[Brandy]

Next time you try the tape method, don't paint the Mr Surfacer over the whole wing, just use it along the edges of the ribs, to blend them in. Then use a fine sanding block run gently fore and aft across the tapes to remove any surfacer from them and keep the ribs to the thickness of the tape.

Ian

[The Spadgent]

Hi Tony. Those wing ribs look like a right pain in the harris. I really do t know a way of doing them but I'll try and find out.

Those brass rods look great, can't wait to see em in. Good luck sir.

Take care and as always. Happy modelling.

John.

[The Spadgent]

Tony I've been thinking. And I can't quite figure out what you are doing with those ribs. I went back through the WIP and the model had ribs originally, were these bad? You said something about 11 ribs and 22 ribs but I got lost. Any way I figured through the many hours of filling and sanding the original ribs got worn down and you are adding new ones. Cool bananas. now forgive me if this sounds like an obvious answer but have you tried just sanding the wing using a round file giving the rib indent? One like this.

Using strips and filler and what not seems like a bit of a ball ache. I thought of maybe heating up a metal rod and slightly melting dents (ribs) but that option seemed to messy. (Btw I'm laughing out now as my telephone just spell corrected the word "option" to "onion"

Sorry if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick here and I've simplified what you are doing but it's fascinating watching these planes progress with so many different, wierd and wonderful techniques in action. I couldn't help but put in my two penneth.

Looking forward to the next steps sir.

Keep up the good work.

Happy modelling.

Johnny spanner.

(Edit) ok I've got it now. 22 ribs on the top to 11. I thought I was looking at the underside. Doh! Either way the sanding tube idea is still valid. ... Isn't it?

Sorry to messy up yer feed.

J

Edited June 29, 2016 by The Spadgent

[TonyTiger66]

Next time you try the tape method, don't paint the Mr Surfacer over the whole wing, just use it along the edges of the ribs, to blend them in. Then use a fine sanding block run gently fore and aft across the tapes to remove any surfacer from them and keep the ribs to the thickness of the tape.

Ian

Many thanks Ian, I do need advice on this, very kind

I know it's hard to describe (for me ) without pictures;

Should I just paint thin 'lines' of e.g. Mr. Surfacer each side of the tapes, effectively blending in the tapes, then, as you say, sand fore and aft?

I think I understand, but I just want to make sure. I'm going to try with the tiny plastic rods instead of tape tomorrow night.

All best regards

Tony

[TonyTiger66]

Tony I've been thinking. And I can't quite figure out what you are doing with those ribs. I went back through the WIP and the model had ribs originally, were these bad? You said something about 11 ribs and 22 ribs but I got lost. Any way I figured through the many hours of filling and sanding the original ribs got worn down and you are adding new ones. Cool bananas. now forgive me if this sounds like an obvious answer but have you tried just sanding the wing using a round file giving the rib indent? One like this.

Using strips and filler and what not seems like a bit of a ball ache. I thought of maybe heating up a metal rod and slightly melting dents (ribs) but that option seemed to messy. (Btw I'm laughing out now as my telephone just spell corrected the word "option" to "onion"

Sorry if I'm getting the wrong end of the stick here and I've simplified what you are doing but it's fascinating watching these planes progress with so many different, wierd and wonderful techniques in action. I couldn't help but put in my two penneth.

Looking forward to the next steps sir.

Keep up the good work.

Happy modelling.

Johnny spanner.

(Edit) ok I've got it now. 22 ribs on the top to 11. I thought I was looking at the underside. Doh! Either way the sanding tube idea is still valid. ... Isn't it?

Sorry to messy up yer feed.

J

Hi John! No your not messing up the thread at all, many thanks for having a think about this

You know, there could be some milage in your heating idea for quite a few modelling situations. The main thing would be control of the temperature and an applicator that wouldn't melt the surface and would distribute heat evenly.

I can see applications for AFV's and rally car modelling (dents), and also for vignettes with crashed aircraft. It's worthy of further thought. Somewhere in my rice pudding bowl of a brain a tiny voice is saying "oooh ooh, modify a hot glue gun or soldering iron!".

It could end in tears, and third degree burns , but it would be fun experimenting

Now the file. That is one of what I'm starting to see as your trademark solutions; very straightforward, not over-thought (like all my hair-brain ideas) and quite clearly, it should work!

I think perhaps to maintain the regular spacing of the 'dips' between the ribs, the file would have to be used held against a straight edge, the straight edge lined up with regular spacing marks on the model? The ribs on top don't go the full chord of the wing, so post-filing, some filling (in Filey on a fine Friday eating a filling fillet ) would still be needed along the area aft of the leading edge. That could be achieved by masking and, again Surfacer or fine filler (to fill it, then after that, file it)?

Am I overthinking it again? I suspect so ....

Here's a terrible reason for trying 'ribs and filler' (a new McDonalds 'Happy Meal') again tomorrow; I can't find my small round profile file . It's been lost in that space-time continuum vortex shear that exists somewhere on my modelling bench. Probably right now, it is floating in the 'n'th string dimension just out of the reach of a curious crystal based life form that has just noticed it.

On the other hand it might have fallen down the back of the bench?

I'm going to crack on with a final try (for now) with tape style ribs tomorrow night, then, if that doesn't work, I'll get grovelling under the desk where all the spiders live and try to find my flipping file!

Thanks again John, all these ideas contribute to the knowledge base of all of us,

Best wishes

Tony Baloney

[Brandy]

Many thanks Ian, I do need advice on this, very kind

I know it's hard to describe (for me ) without pictures;

Should I just paint thin 'lines' of e.g. Mr. Surfacer each side of the tapes, effectively blending in the tapes, then, as you say, sand fore and aft?

I think I understand, but I just want to make sure. I'm going to try with the tiny plastic rods instead of tape tomorrow night.

All best regards

Tony

Yes, keep it minimal. Here's my RE8 wing to show what I mean...

It's a little more fiddly, but far less work removing what you don't need and getting it all smooth.

Ian

[The Spadgent]

I keep trying to think of a way you could sand to a point (a line and stop) by maybe masking the part you don't want to sand. Possibly with dymo tape? I think you could sand slowly and carefully and negate the need for any type of guide. Ooh the possibilities. either way good luck with your next try and if, if that doesn't work good luck with finding the vortex file.

But as always. Happy modelling.

John.

(Edit)Or Ian's way. That looks pretty dandy.

Edited June 30, 2016 by The Spadgent

[TonyTiger66]

Thanks Ian, that really helps. It also looks effective. I had a look at the wing I have tape ribs and Mr. Surfacer on. Then I looked a bit more. I felt my modelling mojo draining away as I visualised sanding it all down flat for the third time . I quietly put it back in its box for the moment, hoping no-one would notice...I will return to the ribs soon, with fresh knowledge and recharged mojo.

Thanks John; in combination with Ian's method I think the Dymo tape will provide the demarcation line I need aft of the 'flat bit' that exists for around 2-6mm aft of the leading edge. Once I've cracked it Im tempted to try my hand (here I go : ) at making a silicone mould from the wing. Then for future I-16 type 5's I could cast resin top wings. Future ones? Yes, I've not been put off; I received this through the post:

It's a Kora set to turn an ICM type 18 into a type 5/6. It includes skis, wheels, decals and this funky little resin insert to make the exhaust arrangement correct, which looks suspiciously like it could have been 'derived' from the Amodel kit :

Nevertheless, no 11 rib wing tops are included, so perhaps that's a part, for both this ICM conversion, and the Amodel kit, I will try to 'mass fabricate' myself. I won't do the ICM conversion in this thread, but I have got some nice Kora wheels I'll be using on the two I-16's and the UTI-4 in this build:

Even after the kit wheels are cleaned up (on the right in the picture below):

The resin ones still look a lot better

I've bought a two part resin making set, now I'm saving up for some Silicone type stuff. I love 'having a go' so making those wing tops could be fun. Or a complete debarcle. Which will be fun for everyone else to watch

I'm uploading (better) pictures so I'll post my next update soon.

Thanks for reading and happy modelling

Tony

[TonyTiger66]

Righto, it's finally time for an update.
After the BLACK incident everything was set back a little, including my mojo . but I didn't give up. The UTI-4 was set back to an almost complete rebuild, but 'Popeye' was a good candidate for rescue.

Let's look at Popeye first. The whole starboard wing upper (and lower) had been soaked in black Alclad II lacquer. I masked the area off and used rubbing alcohol (IPA) and lint free cloths to get back to bare plastic (again) and then sprayed with, by now, a valued friend: Stynylrez primer. I am starting to love the latter quite irrationally - it is superb. Thanks CedB for introducing me to it and thanks John (The Spadgent) for introducing me to a great airbrush that loves the stuff - with only a 0.2mm needle!




I was a little concerned about any step that may occur in the paint finish but felt I would deal with that as and when it arose. The repair area starboard:



Port also needed repair, here my hasty removal of BLACK has also taken off the underlying green:



The underside cannot be forgotten. This is where most of the BLACK leaked and lifted lots of paint. Nothing less than a total repaint would do here:



So, after 1200 grit, 1500grit then Micromesh, it was done:



I finally had to give up on the upper surfaces and decided to reprime all of those:



Hataka A11 green (a joy to spray) and Gunze Aqueous Red madder were (again) applied:



At this point I would like us all to pause for a moment and look at what I feel is the Gunze Chinese to German translation of 'Red Madder':



Yes folks - its 'Krapp Rot'. Now, as far as I know, the last reported case of this was in Hertfordshire in the late 1950's. Much linament was needed, but eventually the patient recovered and was able to, erm, pass, normally. It seems Gunze have tried to (very successfully) recreate the colour of inflammation associated with this rare disorder.

Those red ares? I first sprayed a Sandgelb colour I purchased many years ago over the green. Do not try to spray red straight over green, trust me, it is an exercise in futility. I don't even know what brand this paint is, I do know it is gone. I do know it is lovely straight out of the bottle:



Here's how it goes on out of the bottle:



And then this is how nicely just one coat of red goes on:



Here is the underside resprayed in Agama P9P Polish light blue and Gunze Red Madder:



It was finally time to colour the wheel wells. I decided to use Microscale Micro Mask to help me not to smudge my chosen colour (Tamiya NATO Black) over the light blue. I have never used this product before so was a little concerned:



Applied with a fine brush. It'll never work, it'll never work!!



NATO black was applied with a 3/0 brush. I chose this shade as i didn't want pure black - it doesn't look right in 1/72.



First coat - I gave it another:



It was time to give the (previously filed very thin) undercarriage components a coat. I masked off the outer faces:



Painted. We're reaching the finish line. What is that to the lower of the picture? That would be the canopy. It needed dipping in Humbrol Clear:



I test fitted it to the model:



I like that

In open, the style of Spain:



Hmm, I don't want it to look overly toylike. The painting of the frame and construction of the gunsight is going to be important..

I prefer it closed. I may model this aircraft on a rainy day. I know it is a presumptuous approach - but it's my model after all, and I bet the canopy was closed sometimes, especially when the rain in Spain fell mainly on the Plane .

The rudder was sprayed white, ready for red, yellow and purple. Don't worry about the area of 'rubbish' green fore of the fuselage red stripe - I resprayed it green



I then sprayed the whole rudder the lightest (and most troublesome) colour - yellow:



Followed by red:



And by now, the more observant out there will notice I hand painted a very obscure Humbrol acrylic colour (5042?):



On the lower rudder. Far better than the decal option:



So there is Popeye right now. My next steps are to prepare and paint resin wheels, make a brass gunsight, make brass tube wing guns, a pitot and to paint (started) the canopy.

Thanks for all your support and for the continued lovely feedback. It's still my first WIP and all input has been very gratefully received

Happy modelling
Tony

PS - check out my 3 LaGG's on the GPW Group Build if you would like to see how I have been torturing occupying myself between paint coats
TT

Edited to correct the autocorrect incorrect corrects.

[Brandy]

Lovely recovery Tony, she's really getting close now...I'm not going to say anymore as I don't want to tempt fate....

Ian