Handley Page Sparrow

[bristol boy]

Can anyone help with references for Sparrows? I've acquired the Contrail vacform and intend to build it as a 271 squadron aircraft complete with D Day stripes. There is a photo in Coastal Support and Special Squadrons of the RAF and their Aircraft by j D R Rawlings which I am particularly keen to see, does anyone have that book? Any cockpit info would also be useful as there is little to nothing on the internet.

Please help me construct a Sparrow before Valom ruin it by releasing theirs!

[Junchan]

I also have a Contrail vac kit of Harrow, but never attempted to build this. Hope I would help your challenging project by sharing some information.

Here is a photo of the Sparrow K6994 of the No. 271 Sqn from the book "Coastal Support and Special Squadrons of the RAF and their Aircraft"

and a link to a color profile of this aircraft.

http://www.rafweb.org/Squadrons/Sqn%20Markings/SqnMark271-299.htm

Also these photos from Aeroplane Special, British multi-engined support aircraft of WW2 must be helpful.

Finally a link to a interior photo of the Harrow from Flight Global.

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1938/1938%20-%200585.html

Some more photos from the IWM collection.

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/search?query=handley%20page%20harrow&items_per_page=10&f[0]=mediaType%3Aimage

Cheers,

Jun in Tokyo

https://www.flickr.com/photos/horaburo/albums

Edited April 14, 2016 by Junchan

[bristol boy]

Jun,

Thank you very much for posting the photo I was looking for, it's very much appreciated.

I think that is the aircraft I'll model but don't believe the colour profile matches it, the photo is clearly a Sparrow but the profile still has the Harrow front end, also it has black undersides whilst the photo has sky. In short I wouldn't trust the profile.

There are a couple of photos below of another sparrow from the same squadron, code unknown but again with invasion stripes round the fuselage and the wing underside, your photo doesn't have them on the upper surface so I assume they weren't added for some reason.

This will be quite some challenge as the kit is very basic but with patience it should produce a decent model.

Thanks again for your assistance,

Neil

[Mike Starmer]

The Harrow in September 1944 is in day flying colours, hence Sky undersurfaces. The lack of upper wing stripes is due to the date, by then no wing stripes or upper fuselage stripes were required.

[Graham Boak]

The upper fuselage stripes were initially deleted with the upper wing ones, but were reinstated for transports and medium bombers in, I think, October.

Harrow bombers were initially with Night (black) undersides, but the transports will have had Temperate Land (Dark Green and Dark Earth) with silver (Aluminium) undersides. The undersides will then have become Sky, as Mike says. By the end of the war they should have been in Temperate Sea Scheme (Dark Slate Grey and Extra Dark Sea Grey) uppersurfaces with Azure Blue undersides, but the photos (particularly the one above of K6994/U taken on ortho film) suggests to me that this may not have happened.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Graham Boak

[bristol boy]

Thanks chaps, that's really interesting. I hadn't even noticed on K6994 that the stripes stop at a certain height on the fuselage.

So if I did use that as a subject it is likely to be Dark Green/Dark Earth, Sky undersides, partial D Day stripes on the fuselage and on the underwing but not on top?

The image I posted of another Sparrow is late 1945 with full D-Day fuselage markings and also on the wing underside, presumably not on the upper although it can't be seen. The caption for this photo says it is taken at an airfield near Brussels in June 1945 and is the last Sparrow that 217 squadron had left. I'd use this as a subject but reproducing the nose art puts me off.

[Graham Boak]

It's impossible to be absolutely certain when interpreting b&w photos, and sometimes difficult even to be fairly sure. This is one of the difficult ones. The panchromatic photos, such as the last one, are entirely consistent with TLS/Sky, so you might think that a safe choice.

However, it could be consistent with TSS/Azure Blue too. TSS is very variable on panchromatic photos, sometimes having very low contrast and sometimes just what you see here. The orthochromatic photo, K6992/U, doesn't have the very high contrast between the colours sometimes seen with TSS. However, often there's very little contrast between DG and DE on ortho film, and that isn't true here. So is it in TLS with faded Dark Earth? This is very common and indeed very likely on these aircraft, if still in this scheme.

There is something niggling at the back of my mind, that the TSS/AB scheme was intended for overseas transport aircraft, at least originally. The Harrow doesn't fall into this category - the Continent not counting as overseas in this context. Which takes us back to TLS/Sky as the likeliest scheme. That's a bit of a shame, as it would be nice to have a choice of schemes for the aircraft, particularly as I am going to have a Valom example to go with my Contrail. If the Contrail ever gets made, which is increasingly unlikely.

[Seahawk]

There is something niggling at the back of my mind, that the TSS/AB scheme was intended for overseas transport aircraft, at least originally. The Harrow doesn't fall into this category - the Continent not counting as overseas in this context.

Same here.

[tonyot]

If you look closely at the photo you can see the D-Day stripes have been painted out on the top of the wings, so you could go with full D-Day stripes if you wished..

Also,.....weren`t most,....if not all Sparrows destroyed on Belgian airfields during the Bodenplatte raids of 1st January 1945,........leading to 271 Sqn`s Sparrow flight being re equipped with Dakota`s,......so they probably didn`t uirvive long enough to receive the TSS with Aure Blue undersides?

Cheers

Tony

[JWM]

On 15.04.2016 at 9:19 PM, tonyot said:

Also,.....weren`t most,....if not all Sparrows destroyed on Belgian airfields during the Bodenplatte raids of 1st January 1945,........leading to 271 Sqn`s Sparrow flight being re equipped with Dakota`s,......so they probably didn`t uirvive long enough to receive the TSS with Aure Blue undersides?

This Sparrow with low contrast topsides and intermadiate dark bottom sides (not yellow - if you look on oundel ring) is perhaps such late TSS/Azur???

(big photo in IWM resources  here:

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205127051

and also here

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205210464

descripted

"Medical orderlies loading stretcher cases into Handley Page Harrow Transport (Sparrow) ambulance aircraft, K6984 BJ-E, of No. 271 Squadron RAF Detachment at Hendon, Middlesex."

 

On this page:

http://www.rafweb.org/Squadrons/Sqn Markings/SqnMark271-299.htm

it is said that Harrows were in 271 Sq till May 1945 - so apparently some survived Bodenpalette attack.

How do you think?

Regards

J-W

 

[Graham Boak]

Five Sparrows were destroyed during Bodenplatte, and two others were scrapped  after damage (one described as beyond economic repair, both struck off charge in February).  Eight others continued until scrapped either in February or May 1945, one as the result of an accident.  Source Air Britain: The K File.  Feel free to check my numbers, but  clearly not all and not (quite) most were destroyed.  However, they'd had a long war so were overdue for replacement.  It is perhaps a little surprising that they lasted until May - one of the few aircraft to see the war from beginning to the end.  Certainly among the few individual airframes to be in active service throughout.  No doubt someone will be able to quote serials of similar Tiger Moths and Ansons, but they were available in much larger numbers even in September 1939.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Graham Boak
clarification of the state of the two damaged aircraft

[Ed Russell]

Picture in Post #3. From a popular song in 1944. I have a slightly better image I have sent to Mr Valom.

"Mairzy doats and dozy doats and liddle lamzy divey
A kiddley divey too, wouldn't you?

If the words sound queer and funny to your ear, a little bit jumbled and jivey
Sing "Mares eat oats and does eat oats and little lambs eat ivy""

[Sheepster]

What was the serial code of Mairzy Doats?

[Ed Russell]

271 Sqn Ambulance Flight operated these Sparrows - K6937, K6943, K6970, K6984, K6987, K6993, K6994. The picture is reportedly (according to the caption)  the last Sparrow extant with 271 and indeed you can see the field is full of Dakotas. So if you can identify the one struck from 271 last, then that's it.

[Graham Boak]

From memory of the K File, several were finally struck off charge together in May 1945 rather than staggering along individually.  So you could reduce it to a small number, but not one?  Not that the soc date is necessarily identical to the withdrawal date.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Graham Boak

[gingerbob]

Unearthing a 'middle-aged' thread rather than reinventing the wheel.

 

I just received my Valom Sparrow (oooh!) and have done a first pass bit of "research".  I'm wondering if the long strip "picture windows" and probably overhead windows (which Valom wants you to measure and cut out of the fuselage halves) are indicative of the stretcher-bearing configuration?  On the IWM site there are some good photos of the inside of one of these.

 

I'm intending to build a general hauler- presumably a fairly typical cargo-or-people setup inside- as was commonly used to move fighter squadrons from one base to another.  (Some ORB comments make the distinction between Harrows (X lbs lifting capacity) and Sparrows (considerably higher lift)).  If these Sparrows did not have such extensive windows, it'll make life much easier, and hide the unprototypical smooth featureless interior of the kit.

 

So, any Harrow/Sparrow experts lurking?

 

bob

Edited October 26, 2021 by gingerbob

[modelldoc]

The Valom Sparrow is a nice kit.

 

Beware the landing gear, that makes problems when you build the kit.

My once is here:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/40088596393/in/dateposted/

 

modelldoc

[dogsbody]

Canadian author Carl Vincent has asked me to post these photos here:

 

 

" I attach the only photos in my collection showing the Harrow in its Sparrow configuration. The final four images are official RCAF photos taken by an RCAF photographer somewhere, sometime in Europe. While they do not depict complete aircraft, the detail may possibly be useful or, at least, of interest. "

   

    Carl

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris, for Carl

[Graham Boak]

On 10/26/2021 at 8:08 AM, gingerbob said:

I just received my Valom Sparrow (oooh!) and have done a first pass bit of "research".  I'm wondering if the long strip "picture windows" and probably overhead windows (which Valom wants you to measure and cut out of the fuselage halves) are indicative of the stretcher-bearing configuration?  On the IWM site there are some good photos of the inside of one of these.

 

I'm intending to build a general hauler- presumably a fairly typical cargo-or-people setup inside- as was commonly used to move fighter squadrons from one base to another.  (Some ORB comments make the distinction between Harrows (X lbs lifting capacity) and Sparrows (considerably higher lift)).  If these Sparrows did not have such extensive windows, it'll make life much easier, and hide the unprototypical smooth featureless interior of the kit.

Not all conversions had the picture windows.  However, I think it is fair to say that all the photos I've seen of those without only have individual codes, whereas those with have full unit and individual codes.  I suspect that the windows were a later modification.

 

D-Day stripes varied with date:  initially sides with wings top and bottom, then removed from undersides, then removed altogether, then (on twin and multi-engined aircraft, the fuselages striped were re-added.  Thanks to trigger-happy fighter pilots.

 

I thought that there was a second release of the Sparrow with these windows, but never saw it to confirm.

[tonyot]

On 10/26/2021 at 8:08 AM, gingerbob said:

Unearthing a 'middle-aged' thread rather than reinventing the wheel.

 

I just received my Valom Sparrow (oooh!) and have done a first pass bit of "research".  I'm wondering if the long strip "picture windows" and probably overhead windows (which Valom wants you to measure and cut out of the fuselage halves) are indicative of the stretcher-bearing configuration?  On the IWM site there are some good photos of the inside of one of these.

 

I'm intending to build a general hauler- presumably a fairly typical cargo-or-people setup inside- as was commonly used to move fighter squadrons from one base to another.  (Some ORB comments make the distinction between Harrows (X lbs lifting capacity) and Sparrows (considerably higher lift)).  If these Sparrows did not have such extensive windows, it'll make life much easier, and hide the unprototypical smooth featureless interior of the kit.

 

So, any Harrow/Sparrow experts lurking?

 

bob

 

Hiya Bob,

           I have seen an earlier window configuration mate,....

 

Here is a nice colour pic too,... but with the later windows,...... nice Flamingo too,.... could be one of the RN `Merlin' titled ones?;

 

Cheers

       Tony

Edited October 30, 2021 by tonyot

[dogsbody]

Valom has two Sparrow kits, one with the windows:

 

https://www.super-hobby.com/products/Handley-Page-Sparrow-Mk.II-No.271-Squadron-RAF.html

 

 

and one without:

 

https://www.super-hobby.com/products/Handley-Page-Harrow-Sparrow.html

 

 

 

Chris

[gingerbob]

Thanks Tony.  That first one I'd been looking at, but the second I don't recognize, and with fighters in the vicinity, it's more what I've got in mind.  Note also that (as the last shot shows, which I've seen in B&W, so probably colorized- but nice and atmospheric!) my deduction guess is that the "door extension"- the square-topped part aft of the "proper" door- is part of the casualty evac mods.  Though now that I think about it, if these things hauled cargo, wouldn't they have wanted a bigger door to get stuff in and out?  Perhaps they were more oriented toward personnel and whatever could be manually carried aboard?

 

Sorry Chris, didn't see your comment until I'd posted.  I've got the "with" version, but while they give you the strips of clear, the instructions just give coordinates and leave it up to you to make the long rectangular openings for these windows.  And the fuselage is moderately thick and quite featureless in the cabin, aside from cockpit, so the less one can see into it the better!  Anyway, I'm more interested in the shape of the beast than superdetail.  (That door is also "welded shut".)

Edited October 27, 2021 by gingerbob

[Richard Tucker]

Here is my Sparrow in ambulance configuration. It wasn't much fun cutting out all the windows. The kit came with no interior behind the cockpit so I scratch built some stretchers and built the tubing according to the one and only photo of the interior I found on the web.

 

 

Can you see much of it as a result? No not really.

[Ed Russell]

@Richard TuckerNice build. You might want to read through the posts above and change that B to a D. My slightly clearer image was not good enough but I did send them the rhyme.

[Richard Tucker]

8 hours ago, Ed Russell said:

@Richard TuckerNice build. You might want to read through the posts above and change that B to a D. My slightly clearer image was not good enough but I did send them the rhyme.

I've only just spotted this. Yes you are right. I'll dig out the white and the dark earth again.