another 'which one should I buy?'

[Badder]

I have an old Aztec, purchased around 15yrs ago, and that was from a mate who'd had it for several years himself. I've had clogging issues with it in the past but replacement nozzle units and cleaning solved these issues and it operates okay now. However, it does leak air within the body when the pressures have built up, and this air comes out around the trigger. As I cant take it apart I assume that O rings or some other parts have worn and I don't think it's operating with full effectiveness. So, I have decided to upgrade to something better, and more versatile and use the Aztec for the 'rough stuff'.

I want a metal airbrush and have zeroed in on Iwata.

Now, I know there are similar topics to this one, and I've read them, and I've also looked at the Iwata website, but all these HP-CS, HL, GBP, NASA, NHS, SWALK designations do my head in. What puzzles me more is that Iwata's website top recommended airbrushes don't seem to get a mention on BM. (Those being the Eclipse CS and SBS and the Hi-line CH)

So, here's what I'm after.... An airbrush which will cope with inks and dyes, up to enamels and acrylics for 1/35th models, and possibly, though not essential, lacquers for customizing guitars. If that requires purchasing extra nozzles/needles that's fine (or rather, broad). If there's no brush capable of the full range, then I understand I may need another one for lacquers.

I'd prefer a side cup, but the majority seem to be gravity fed and maybe I will just have to get used to them. Price isn't too much of an issue. I'd prefer quality and versatility to economy.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Badder

Edited April 2, 2016 by Badder

[TeeELL]

I use Passche airbrushes, I used a single action H model for years although I possessed a double action that didn't function. Having learnt how to clean it out it is now my airbrush of choice (typically, as I write this I am away from home so cannot tell you the model designation of the latter.

[TeeELL]

The double action is a VL model. Both airbrushes have side feeds and even the H model is capable of quite fine work (although it won't do the eyebrows on a 1:72 figure!). Apart from that, I recently bought a cheap clone from 'the 'bay' with a handle and trigger me hanism which is very nice to use - I bought it to see what that arrangement would feel like. It has 3 sizes of nozzle, 3 sizes of paint cup and is threaded for an Iwata hose.

[denstore]

I have an old Aztec, purchased around 15yrs ago, and that was from a mate who'd had it for several years himself. I've had clogging issues with it in the past but replacement nozzle units and cleaning solved these issues and it operates okay now. However, it does leak air within the body when the pressures have built up, and this air comes out around the trigger. As I cant take it apart I assume that O rings or some other parts have worn and I don't think it's operating with full effectiveness. So, I have decided to upgrade to something better, and more versatile and use the Aztec for the 'rough stuff'.

I want a metal airbrush and have zeroed in on Iwata.

Now, I know there are similar topics to this one, and I've read them, and I've also looked at the Iwata website, but all these HP-CS, HL, GBP, NASA, NHS, SWALK designations do my head in. What puzzles me more is that Iwata's website top recommended airbrushes don't seem to get a mention on BM. (Those being the Eclipse CS and SBS and the Hi-line CH)

So, here's what I'm after.... An airbrush which will cope with inks and dyes, up to enamels and acrylics for 1/35th models, and possibly, though not essential, lacquers for customizing guitars. If that requires purchasing extra nozzles/needles that's fine (or rather, broad). If there's no brush capable of the full range, then I understand I may need another one for lacquers.

I'd prefer a side cup, but the majority seem to be gravity fed and maybe I will just have to get used to them. Price isn't too much of an issue. I'd prefer quality and versatility to economy.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Badder

Here´s something that I wrote about Iwata airbrushes a couple of years ago.

The difference between the different Iwata airbrushes is quite easy to decode as soon as you know what to look for.

As an example, the C in the end usually stands for large gravity cup. So, the HP-CR, the HP-CS, The HP-CH and the CM-C all have large gravity cups, but are from different lines.

B is small gravity cup. A is internal cup, SB is sidefeed and BC is bottom feed.

HP-x is the high performance line series. They atomize paint very good at low pressure, which makes them perform excellent with thinned paint. They are out of production, but can quite often be found. One of the most common ones is the HP-C, which is a High Performance with large gravity feed cup.

HP-x+ is the development of the HP-line. They are basicly the same, but with "better" shaped cups, and factory fitted cutaway pre-set handles.

As an example HP-B+ is a small cup gravity fed airbrush with preset handle.

HP-xH is the Highline series. Same as the +-line, but with an airvalve mounted on the airbrush body.

The HP-AH is a internal cup airbrush with preset handle and MAC-valve.

HP-xS is the Eclipse series. They perform good, and are easier to maintain than the HP-series. The large nozzle makes it very good for beginners.

An the example is the HP-BCS, which is an Eclipse with bottom feed bottle.

HP-xR is the Revolution series. They have been Iwatas budget alternative for some years. They are quite popular among modellers, probably much because their large nozzles, which make them less picky about paint and paint mixes. The Revolution line is the only one that has a single action version today, the HP-SAR. But the most popular version is probably the HP-CR, which of course is a large cup gravity fed airbrush.

Finally, the CM-x line. This is Iwatas high end series. The Custom Microns are designed for illustration work, so they dont perform that well with thicker paint. But with properly thinned paint, they are excellent. And if treated properly, quite easy to maintain. The whole head is detachable, and isn't supposed to be disassembled without reason, since it can easily be cleaned anyway. But the question is if they are worth the high cost compared to the High Performance series, or other brands high end airbrushes. An example of how the are named could be the CM-SB, which is a Custom Micron with side feed cup.

If you are going to shoot thicker paint through it, I would recommend a 0.3mm nozzle or larger. If you choose something smaller, be prepared to experiment with different thinning ratios a lot.

Edited April 2, 2016 by denstore

[Badder]

Thanks TeeELL, I will have a look at Passche as well.

[Badder]

Thanks Denstore. That's very helpful

Badder

[ancient mariner]

This may help. http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/forum/14-airbrushes/

[little-cars]

I would also look at Harder & Steenbeck. A lot more flexible and cheaper to maintain than Iwata.

Also, a lot easier to strip down and clean, the nozzles are large enough to hold in your fingers, most Iwata are tiny screw in units that are to small to hold and easily clean. Paint cups screw in and there are four different nozzle sizes to choose from.

I have them on my stand for people to try at shows, feel free to come along and have a try.

Paul

[Badder]

I'm leaning towards Iwata's High-line HP-CH. I'd prefer one with a side-cup because I like the quick colour changes, but hey-ho.

[denstore]

A HP-SB+ would probably be a nice choice if you like side cups. The air valve isn't worth it, in my opinion.

[Badder]

A HP-SB+ would probably be a nice choice if you like side cups. The air valve isn't worth it, in my opinion.

I do like side cups, but then I like the idea of the Micro Air Valve as well. I do fantasy art and plan on customizing guitars and I think the air valve will help with effects. Or am I falling foul of a gimmic ?

[denstore]

I would say that it comes down to what regulator you have today? Most compressors comes with decent regulators today, and if you really want to have one close to the airbrush, there´s always the hose-mounted alternatives.

When I bought my first HP-CH I loved the MAC-valve, but after a while I stopped using it. I have an extra regulator mounted to my modeling desk, so it is always easy to reach anyway.

[Badder]

I would say that it comes down to what regulator you have today? Most compressors comes with decent regulators today, and if you really want to have one close to the airbrush, there´s always the hose-mounted alternatives.

When I bought my first HP-CH I loved the MAC-valve, but after a while I stopped using it. I have an extra regulator mounted to my modeling desk, so it is always easy to reach anyway.

I have an old Simair 15/6 compressor bought new in 2002. It works up to 6bar or 150psi. It was left unused for a long time and lost a lot of oil, which I stupidly replaced with vegetable oil. lol. I poured all that out and replaced it with GTX engine oil. It seems to work fine, but I lost the 'air filter'. that fits on the end of the tube where you pour the oil in. I'm not sure if it's working to full potential or not, but yes, I can adjust the pressure with the regulator..

[Badder]

I would also look at Harder & Steenbeck. A lot more flexible and cheaper to maintain than Iwata.

Also, a lot easier to strip down and clean, the nozzles are large enough to hold in your fingers, most Iwata are tiny screw in units that are to small to hold and easily clean. Paint cups screw in and there are four different nozzle sizes to choose from.

I have them on my stand for people to try at shows, feel free to come along and have a try.

Paul

Cheers Paul,.

So what model of H&S would you suggest? I'm prepared to just break the 200 quid mark if needs be.

Badder

[little-cars]

Cheers Paul,.

So what model of H&S would you suggest? I'm prepared to just break the 200 quid mark if needs be.

Badder

Hi,

It really depends of the painting range you will need.

The 0.2mm nozzle paints about 1mm to 13mm , the 0.15mm down to about 0.5mm.

For larger areas the 0.4mm nozzle has a range of 3mm to about 25mm, the 0.6mm nozzle larger still.

Paint cups, there is an internal cup for fine detail about 0.5ml, the standard cups are 2ml and 5ml and there is the option of a 15ml and 50ml paint cup and 15ml side fed bottle.

The most popular general purpose brush is the Evolution Silverline 2in1. this has 0.2 and 0.4mm nozzle sets, 2mland 5ml paint cups. It also has a preset handle. Price is about £130

At the top of the range is the Infinity 2in1 at £200. You can get it with the same size paint cups and nozzle sizes as above. The extra you get is the heavy duty finish, lids on the paint cups, pincer aircaps ( useful for fine close work, as well as allowing you to see paint build up on the air cap and deal with it before it becomes a problem. It has a preset handle with a memory function and a screw that allows you to change the tension on the trigger spring. It is also available with a 0.15mm nozzle set instead of the 0.2mm.

Changing nozzle sets over takes about 20 seconds, no tiny nozzle to unscrew.

On air regulators H&S have a quick release hose adapter with a secondary air regulator on. There is also an on brush one that replaces the standard air valve. There is a collar around the air valve that you turn to change the pressure.

Paul

[Rob G]

Who says you can't take an Aztek apart? Mine's been apart a few times, mostly to find out why the #*@$%%* thing won't #*%&@#%% work the way it should.

Pull it to bits, leave it in bits. That way, you won't be tempted to use it ever again.

And I do love my Iwata whatever it is. Seriously high quality. Can't comment on H&S, as I've never seen one.

[jimmydel]

I'd absolutely recommend an Iwata Custom Micron if you're going to be dealing with paints that are thin. I have a CM-B and love it. It's absolutely unrivaled. I had bought a H&S Infinity to try, having always been an Iwata fan, and absolutely hated it. It just didn't feel like a high end airbrush should. I had the .15 mm version. Decided to sell it off and went with the CM-B. Now, they also have a side cup version in the CM range if you insist on that feature.

The only thing I'd be a little hesitant on is using water based acrylics in it. I don't airbrush anything that can't be thinned with lacquer, so I use both Gunze lines, Tamiya, and Mr. Paint exclusively. It handles those beautifully. I'm also not really buying that the H&S are easier to clean either. With the CM I just clean the cup really well and flush a couple cups of lacquer thinner thorough it. The Infinity wasn't so easy to do this with by the way the cup is designed.

I really don't know what prices are like in the UK, but domestically in the US they go for around $450. I got mine direct from Japan on ebay for $280 and it was $7 shipping to have it to me, from Japan, 4 days after ordering. May be worth checking out.

[Badder]

Who says you can't take an Aztek apart? Mine's been apart a few times, mostly to find out why the #*@$%%* thing won't #*%&@#%% work the way it should.

Pull it to bits, leave it in bits. That way, you won't be tempted to use it ever again.

And I do love my Iwata whatever it is. Seriously high quality. Can't comment on H&S, as I've never seen one.

Hahah.... I think I must have the original Aztek. The body definitely doesn't come apart.

I'd absolutely recommend an Iwata Custom Micron if you're going to be dealing with paints that are thin. I have a CM-B and love it. It's absolutely unrivaled. I had bought a H&S Infinity to try, having always been an Iwata fan, and absolutely hated it. It just didn't feel like a high end airbrush should. I had the .15 mm version. Decided to sell it off and went with the CM-B. Now, they also have a side cup version in the CM range if you insist on that feature.

The only thing I'd be a little hesitant on is using water based acrylics in it. I don't airbrush anything that can't be thinned with lacquer, so I use both Gunze lines, Tamiya, and Mr. Paint exclusively. It handles those beautifully. I'm also not really buying that the H&S are easier to clean either. With the CM I just clean the cup really well and flush a couple cups of lacquer thinner thorough it. The Infinity wasn't so easy to do this with by the way the cup is designed.

I really don't know what prices are like in the UK, but domestically in the US they go for around $450. I got mine direct from Japan on ebay for $280 and it was $7 shipping to have it to me, from Japan, 4 days after ordering. May be worth checking out.

Thanks Jimmy. I was thinking the CM range are a bit too pricey at around 350GBP, and I'm wary of buying stuff off Ebay. But I will give them another look.

Badder

[Duncan B]

Here's my worth. I have 3 Iwatas of various specifications.

I bought my first one, a Custom Micron CM-C+, when wanting to move away from the metal Aztek that I had as a beginner, it has the MAC valve and a 0.23mm nozzle. It was actually too much airbrush for me to work with initially so I didn't get the best out of it for a long time and I have rarely ever used the MAC valve. As I was still struggling with the Custom Micron but had spare cash at the time I decided to buy an HP-CH, this also has the MAC valve and a 0.3mm nozzle so much better suited to the acrylics I mainly use. This has become my main airbrush being used for most of the painting I do (but I still only rarely use the MAC valve). Lastly I bought an Eclipse to use only for priming and for varnishes, I also bought the 0.5mm nozzle/needle set to go with the standard 0.35m.

As I said the Hi Line HP-CH is the airbrush I use the most but there is no doubting that the Custom Micron is an excellent airbrush and can produce really fine lines in the right hands but it is a more focused airbrush and is best for detailed painting only in my experience.

All proper Iwata airbrushes (not the Chinese made Neo's) can handle lacquers without any problems and are of the highest quality, Parts are more expensive than some other brands but they don't seem to need them unless you're heavy handed (I've only ever had to replace one nozzle which was due to my own fault).

Duncan B

[Badder]

Here's my worth. I have 3 Iwatas of various specifications.

I bought my first one, a Custom Micron CM-C+, when wanting to move away from the metal Aztek that I had as a beginner, it has the MAC valve and a 0.23mm nozzle. It was actually too much airbrush for me to work with initially so I didn't get the best out of it for a long time and I have rarely ever used the MAC valve. As I was still struggling with the Custom Micron but had spare cash at the time I decided to buy an HP-CH, this also has the MAC valve and a 0.3mm nozzle so much better suited to the acrylics I mainly use. This has become my main airbrush being used for most of the painting I do (but I still only rarely use the MAC valve). Lastly I bought an Eclipse to use only for priming and for varnishes, I also bought the 0.5mm nozzle/needle set to go with the standard 0.35m.

As I said the Hi Line HP-CH is the airbrush I use the most but there is no doubting that the Custom Micron is an excellent airbrush and can produce really fine lines in the right hands but it is a more focused airbrush and is best for detailed painting only in my experience.

All proper Iwata airbrushes (not the Chinese made Neo's) can handle lacquers without any problems and are of the highest quality, Parts are more expensive than some other brands but they don't seem to need them unless you're heavy handed (I've only ever had to replace one nozzle which was due to my own fault).

Duncan B

Thanks Duncan.

It sounds like I may need two airbrushes then. I do want to venture into customizing guitars and the Custom Micron is probably the one to go for in that instance. And the Hi-Line for modelling. I guess there's no single airbrush that can excel at both, but the two could compliment each other in either discipline.

Badder

[LaurieS]

I use an old H & S (not that old means much) for dirty work varnish primers.

But a couple of years ago i bought two Iwata an HPCS. Used this once as it is heavy at the front has a large cup (also looked ugly).

And so I went off and bought what for me is a darling of a brush. An HP BS. It is shorter than the average brush and is perfectly

balanced around trigger. Being light and short it easy to get into intricate places.

It also has a built in clever very low cup. When using you can see the tip of the front end as it gives perfect vision. This does mean

that large areas you would have to top up.

As some one has said above an H & S is easily taken totally apart. Deep clean in 4mins. Plus the cup is detachable to remove partially

cured paint rather than slosh down through the nozzle. Also enables you to get to the channel at the bottom to clean thoroughly. Iwata

deep clean how many days have you spare.

However having used both Iwata and H & S both are good brushes but consider that Iwata are better engineered. Iwata do most spares

but not the main body or the end. H & S have spares for every part of the brush.

Generally H & S have .6 .4 .2 and some .15 needle/nozzles. Iwata generally .35 and where possible an option of .2 and .18. To change

needle nozzle in an H & S is 40 secs. Iwata I just do not !!!!

Iwata have a newish needle protection cover (forgotten name) replacement which stops a lot of spitting. Also the pull back the needle

addition allows a cotton bud to wipe out the nozzle end when in use.

Laurie

Edited April 3, 2016 by LaurieS

[denstore]

I would recommend going with one of the HP-series airbrushes before buying a Custom Micron. And it's not that I'm not a fan of the Microns (I have three), but they are expensive, and a HP can do 95% (or more) of what we need as modellers.

[LaurieS]

I would recommend going with one of the HP-series airbrushes before buying a Custom Micron. And it's not that I'm not a fan of the Microns (I have three), but they are expensive, and a HP can do 95% (or more) of what we need as modellers.

Agree 100% Den. Bought a Micron and tried a number of times.Obviously a hi-bred but unless

you are using it every day it is, at least for me, the very devil. Must have another go before selling it.

Rather like a Triumph Bonneville (the original) throttle to much at the traffic lights getaway and

you end up laying on your back with the bike sitting on your chest.

Laurie

[Badder]

Agree 100% Den. Bought a Micron and tried a number of times.Obviously a hi-bred but unless

you are using it every day it is, at least for me, the very devil. Must have another go before selling it.

Rather like a Triumph Bonneville (the original) throttle to much at the traffic lights getaway and

you end up laying on your back with the bike sitting on your chest.

Laurie

Or if you were a pillion on one like I was on the day I proposed to my first wife and my idiot mate 'accidentally' pulled a wheelie at lights leaving me on the road in front of a following car!

Edited April 3, 2016 by Badder

[jimmydel]

You bring up a good point about multiple airbrushes though. I use exactly two. The custom micron I use for all color work. It's perfectly fine for painting a whole model, unless you just want to blanket paint down. I use black basing and paint small, it's not fast, but it's how I build up tonal variation. However, I do use a second Eclipse (that I've had for 10 or more years now) for primers and clear coats. I won't put that stuff near the CM.

If the CM is too much for you I'd highly recommend looking at the HP-C+ or HP-B+. I've not used either, but I'm told by the person that put me on the the CM that they are very good in their own right.

As for ebay, well I've been using it for years with no issue. Using Paypal is absolutely the most secure payment method there is, plus you have buyer protection if you get a bad seller.