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Ad2408

Xtracrylix Paints = Rubbish (or maybe it's actually me!)

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Hello

Sorry for the rather short title but I'm a very annoyed!

I have spent the last few months building a tribute to my grandfather - a flight engineer in a Halifax with Coastal command including correcting many of the mistakes in the original revell kit, fitting the correct props and finally buying the correct paints from yourselves.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234995148-building-my-grandfathers-halifax/

Imagine my annoyance when I start to use the paint and they totally ruin the finish of the aircraft! The paint on bare plastic is translucent so I used a Vallejo primer, the Xtracrylix paint has 'picked up' the primer and so ruined the finish.

If this was a 'normal' build this would be annoying enough but to have this happen on a very personal build is incredibly frustrating!

I already emailed you directly but have yet to receive a response so am not expecting one here but I needed to vent.

Adam

Edited by Ad2408

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Hi

Thanks for the sympathy - just very annoyed at the moment, will try to strip I think and go back to Vallejo equivalents...

Thanks

Adam

Edited by Ad2408

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Yeah to be honest I had only heard good things about them - hence me buying them, just very frustrated to see them react with the Vallejo primer - my earlier post was written when I was very much annoyed.

Oh well.... Off to google what's new to strip Acrylic pain now...

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Hi

The Xtracrylix I have used (RAF dark slate & RAF Extra Dark Sea) are acrylics - the Vallejo primer was an acrylic - have I made a schoolboy error?

Thanks

Adam

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I use those paints a lot. Never had any problem with them. But they work best on a primed base I find. Then airbrushed thinned with drops of acrylic flow improver. Works a treat.

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I already emailed you directly but have yet to receive a response so am not expecting one here but I needed to vent.

Mate, very understandable but there's no point E-Mailing me !!

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Oh well.... Off to google what's new to strip Acrylic pain now...

Mr Muscles may do the job.

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Problem is due to the cutaway I had to brush paint them, would have preferred to airbrush but masking the cutout would have been a nightmare

Mate, very understandable but there's no point E-Mailing me !!

Aww wouldn't have bothered if I'd known that

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Have I just parachuted into a paint war?

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Ok, the problem here is that description 'acrylic'. Not all acrylics are the same. The acrylic really applies to the medium that contains the pigment rather than the solvent used (so you can have 'hot' acrylics with cellulose/lacquer solvents).

What are common modelling acrylics can have water, alcohols or other reactive solvents. Being able to clean up in water doesn't mean the paint is only a water solvent.

What has happened here is that the paints have different solvents, and the Xtracrylix has reacted with the Vallejo. If I recall, Vallejo is water based whereas the solvent in Xtracrylix is an ammonia/alcohol base. So the slightly 'hotter' Xtracrylic has removed the Vallejo (Not the most resilient of primers in my experience, I have often wondered what it's priming properties are).

So basically just paint incompatibility - you'd be as well ranting at Vallejo for selling a primer that isn't compatible with anything other than their own paint.

Edited by Dave Fleming

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Might be water based, but it has other solvents as well (a quick sniff reveals hints of alcohols* (Not unlike window cleaners)) - it's that solvent mix that has lifted the Vallejo. I just tried it and it did exactly what happened to the OP - the Xtracrylix lifted long hardened Vallejo in seconds.

It might not happen if you spray the Xtra as the solvents are likley to evaporate quickly, but dragging them along the surface will lift the underling coat.

It's not just 'acrylics' - the first time I tried Testors enamels brush coated, they dragged through the underlying Humbrol.

* Vallejo on the other hand has no discernable smell at all

Edited by Dave Fleming

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So basically just paint incompatibility - you'd be as well ranting at Vallejo for selling a primer that isn't compatible with anything other than their own paint.

You are completely right - the moan above was written in anger at the time, now I have had time to cool down overnight and had a look at the paint job in the cold light of day? Well it still looks terrible but possibly if I put a second coat of the paint on and then rub it back it could save it.

Otherwise I would have to strip the model but that would mean repainting the white too - 😡

Sorry for the rant - maybe like a lot of things in life it is operator error.

Stand at ease all

Adam

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Not being a dyed in the wool acrylic user having had a painful transition from ancient Humbrol Authentics and the like, I have to sympathise with the OP here. However, I have tried most of the available acrylics and once you accept that different types of thinners and cleaners need to be used depending on the brand, and furthermore acceptance that some translucency is normal which calls for several coats plus a need for a primed surface, acrylics are OK. Xtracrylix and Vallejo are not so tough either and addition of a few drops of Golden GAC-200 hardener definitely helps here with these.

Adam, your choice of Xtracrylix is fine, there is a good range of colours and ready availability but there is no doubt whatever that they are harder work than said olden days enamels if that is where you are coming from. This chart might help you too, courtesy of Littlecars:

http://www.little-cars.co.uk/workbench49.pdf

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Xtracrylix are a dream to spray. I usually thin them with a homebrew thinner: 2/3 de-ionised water, 1/3 isopropanol, a dash of Winsor & Newton's flow improver and slow drying medium (glycol and washing up liquid can be used instead). Have never had any problems with covering.

One caveat though: they need to be properly stirred. I use a paint shaker, let them shake for at least 5 minutes.

Nail-Polish-shake-Paint-Shaker-New-Arriv

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Xtracrylix can be tamed! 

 

Free hand camo done with a 0.3mm needle and ak nitro thinner. 

 

I know some people will say ‘whats the point, may as well use enamels’ Or ‘not for me, too strong smelling’ etc...

 

However in my experience you can’t get ‘water based’ (term used loosely) acrylics to behave properly and not get tip dry for doing fine work without using a ‘hot’ thinner. Let the flaming commence! 

 

Below demarcations all done freehand. No masking of any kind.

 

70_D19_BAD-410_F-44_EF-_AE88-3_C2_BE0_A0

 

Was going to start a thread about this perhaps, in thenpaint section to make people as alot of ‘hot’ thinners can turn xtracrylix to goo.  

This nitro stuff works a treat, i’m a sucker for experimenting...

:) 

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