Winter Whitewash revisited

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

We all know both the Luftwaffe and Russian Air Force used White distemper to camouflage their aircraft in winter. I have a quick general question (apologies if it's been covered before). When freshly applied, did the white appear solid on any aircraft on either side, or was it patchy from the start?

thanks

Mike

[modelldoc]

So far as I know, all these camouflage was made individual on the front line.

It was a colour of lime.

Like this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/15232659940/in/dateposted/

Only for this plane you can find original pictures for a factory made camouflage:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/5428684734/in/dateposted/

modelldoc

[Graham Boak]

That Mig 3 may have had factory white paint applied, but the outer wings were not red but green. This has been argued for years... but the tone of the wings does not match that of the stars. This was probably a hybrid aircraft put together for the big parade day. There were white Mig 3s with red wingtips, but these were just at the tips and linked to red markings on the fuselage too. They were also photographed in a display setting rather than on the front line, although a slash of red paint on the wingtips is rather easier to hide on the ground than entire wing outer panels.

There are also examples of Bf109s said to have white paint too, and certainly looking very uniform, but any covering of whitewash would very much depend upon the care taken in the application.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Graham Boak

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

Well Bf109's and Mig 3's are two of the planes I have that require a White wash. The Bf109's are a Grunherz G-2 and Hartmann's G-14. The Russian ones are a Hasegawa I-16 and Hobby Boss MiG-3.

thanks

Mike

[FalkeEins]

and Hartmann's G-14...

thanks

Mike

if you're doing his JG 53 machine it was a bog-standard 'late' G-6 (from his logbook) - note that it featured a light overspray in a sort of 'spider's web' pattern of grey that just about everyone misses - Claes Sundin's artwork is the best interpretation I've seen. I'll PM a pic if interested..

http://www.luftwaffeinprofile.se/Erich%20Hartmann%20JG53.html

[Max Headroom]

If field applied I guess it's at the mercy of the man with the brush and distemper bucket and how busy they were on the front line.

I did this Zvezda Li-2 in 1/200 a while ago and tried to emulate three 'erks' of differing talent and thoroughness working their way around the airframe.

Trevor

[Learstang]

I do know that some Il-2's had the white distemper paint applied uniformly and very neatly at the factories during the winter months whilst they were being produced. They appear to have been painted with an air gun. For in the field applications, you saw everything from fairly uniform to it looked like a blind person slapped it on with a broom. In addition to overall patchy finishes, you also had examples where the white was applied in discrete bands. I have one Il-2 finished this way.

Regards,

Jason

Edited March 26, 2016 by Learstang

[rickshaw]

One should be careful in making assumptions about the ready availability of paint in the field. Even more importantly, one should be careful about making assumptions about the ready availability of the thinning agents used in painting in the field. For the Germans in particular, as one of their main thinning agents was petrol, its decreasing availability as the war continued meant the paints became thicker and less easily spread (and available).

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

if you're doing his JG 53 machine it was a bog-standard 'late' G-6 (from his logbook) - note that it featured a light overspray in a sort of 'spider's web' pattern of grey that just about everyone misses - Claes Sundin's artwork is the best interpretation I've seen. I'll PM a pic if interested..

http://www.luftwaffeinprofile.se/Erich%20Hartmann%20JG53.html

So, Hasegawa got it wrong then. I have their Hartmann dual combo, which leads me to ask, is their main mistake just calling it a G-14 and not a G-6? I'm pretty sure the instructions have it with the Erla canopy and larger tail. Also, do we know what the camouflage was underneath the white?

Also, my Fine Molds Grunherz G-2, that's from winter 1942 - would anyone know the camouflage under the white?

thanks

Mike

[FZ6]

I'll have to check but I have the Aeromaster JG54 decal sheet and I'm sure it says in there that some aircraft that were sent back for major repair work had a coat of gloss white at the factory. As I said I'll have to dig out my reference for more detail when I'm home but thought I'd mention it.

Regards,

Mark

[bobmig]

Some may find this interesting... it's a page from Colors of the Falcons explaining the use of winter white finishes (remembering that official instructions were not always followed to the letter). http://www.iliad-design.com/misc/white.pdf

[Mark Proulx]

Unfortunately, the color profile of Hartmann's G-6 misses the mark...

His logbook does list the aircraft as a G-6 with tall tail. However, photos of this aircraft reveal no mast aft of the canopy and no loop for the FuG 16ZY radio aft of the canopy. Only the base was attached. The antenna wire entered the fuselage just aft of the Erla-Haube canopy (fitted with late headrest) on top of the fuselage. There are no ventilation scoops ahead of the windscreen. A battery box aft of the pilot. It is likely external trim tabs fitted to the rudder.

Base colors RLM 74/75/76 with white camouflage. A previous "7" just visible under the black chevron. Another important feature is the RLM 70 prop blades with white overspray at the base. Cowl underside, rear fuselage band and Hungarian theater "V" marking in yellow.

HTH

Mark Proulx