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Ginetta - where's the love?


Codger

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Ginetta are big in the domestic motorsport world here in the UK, a friend of mine races in the GT5 Challenge series supporting the British GT, some great racing, and bringing through the next wave of talent into pro sports car racing.

Lawrence Tomlinson is a good ambassador for the sport, as well as the GT5, GT4 and GT3 cars, they're also planning a Prototype, G57, so maybe they will become popular enough to have some models made, certainly make some great looking cars

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I was in the market for a Ginetta type car many years ago, and would have liked to consider one as a self build, but at the time they were moving away from that and into finished G34s which didn't grab me at all (I ended up with a Dax Rush 4x4 Cosworth which I still have). I even enjoyed a tour of the factory as part of a course I was on, but for me they've always fallen slightly short of their competition.

On power and sound they were left behind by TVR (I loved my 3000M) and lightness and handling they were always playing second fiddle to Lotus. They never seemed to really carve out a USP for themselves in the past. They seem to be doing that with track cars though, which is where their cars have always shone.

Edited by Twobad
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I wouldn't knock the Ford engine but personally I think a lot of the popularity is based around availability and cost.

Even the kit car crowd and grass roots racers use Ford engines and parts for this reason.

I'm a big fan of Ford engines, especially the YB Turbo. The Duratech was beloved by many racers too. But to me the YB is still one of the great road engines.

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Edited by Twobad
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Pardon a Yank's ignorance Two, but what is displacement and power of the pretty little lump? Serious-sized turbo on there...

Hi Codger,

from memory, way back in around '86/'87'ish. they were just over 200bhp, in totally standard spec but in later race spec they passed 500bhp.

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The YB, if I'm not mistaken was based on the 2.0 litre Ford Pinto block but had new DOHC head castings made by Cosworth. They tend to melt pistons and things when cranked up with lots of boost pressure, so most of the tuned ones have forged pistons and conrods and ARP bolts etc.

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Pardon a Yank's ignorance Two, but what is displacement and power of the pretty little lump? Serious-sized turbo on there...

Yes, as above, YB are 2000cc, probably a lot smaller than you are used to over that side of the pond.

Great engine though, another friend of mine was always into his Cosworths, so I've been lucky enough to drive an Escort Cosworth and a Sapphire Cosworth which was making around 350bhp, great fun.

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Yes, as above, YB are 2000cc, probably a lot smaller than you are used to over that side of the pond.

Great engine though, another friend of mine was always into his Cosworths, so I've been lucky enough to drive an Escort Cosworth and a Sapphire Cosworth which was making around 350bhp, great fun.

Thanks all for the info.

Not so Gary; my daily driver Turbo Optima is 2 liters and 274 HP. But yes we like 'em big; My Cobra's Side Oiler is 7 liters...

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Thanks all for the info.

Not so Gary; my daily driver Turbo Optima is 2 liters and 274 HP. But yes we like 'em big; My Cobra's Side Oiler is 7 liters...

Aint no replacement for displacement as the old saying goes.

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Pardon a Yank's ignorance Two, but what is displacement and power of the pretty little lump? Serious-sized turbo on there...

As others have said, the standard trim was 225 bhp, but you can tune them up to big numbers.

Mine's in a stage 2 tune and gives about 330 bhp. That requires green injectors, and low compression 7.5:1 forged pistons plus other bits and bobs and it runs about 23psi boost. The biggest problem I have is charge temperature and it could really do with some water/methanol injection to cool it on hot days.

The block is indeed a standard Ford Pinto block with a custom Cosworth head on it. In the early days (1989 ish) Cosworth used the heavier blocks from production on the basis they would be slightly stronger. In the end Ford did beef the block up a little on the later engines.

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Thanks all for the info.

Not so Gary; my daily driver Turbo Optima is 2 liters and 274 HP. But yes we like 'em big; My Cobra's Side Oiler is 7 liters...

How much power to you take out from those 7 litres?

I do like that kind of engine, too...

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That looks great. What's traction like in lower gears? I expect the power is almost secondary to the experience of managing the torque through lower gears and the sound track?

What's traction?? :shrug:

Seriously, The secret is 2650 pounds; 4.8 HP / CI. I built it with oversized valves (2.25) and a cam with much overlap , lift and duration, so as to bleed a little power down low. The carbs flow 1304 CFM at WOT. It just wants to scream, not lug down low.

Wish I could play a soundtrack for you. Thudding crackle at 1000 RPM idle and VERY ANGRY SHRIEK going to 6800. Pulls like a freight train from 3800 to 6800. The sidepipes have no baffles. Same noise as when the headers are open. I am very careful around the neighborhood.

Not exactly a scalpel like Ginettas but a different kind of excitement. 1.2 G's on Lime Rock's skip pad on Hoosier Street TD's so not a total blunderbus.

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Mine's in a stage 2 tune and gives about 330 bhp. That requires green injectors, and low compression 7.5:1 forged pistons plus other bits and bobs and it runs about 23psi boost. The biggest problem I have is charge temperature and it could really do with some water/methanol injection to cool it on hot days.

Do you have room to fit an intercooler and plumbing?

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Do you have room to fit an intercooler and plumbing?

It has the standard Ford item fitted already and there's not much room for anything else really. Finding space for a water methanol tank wouldn't be that easy either.

People have stacked larger intercoolers infront of the radiator but they are pricey bespoke items and a compromise in other ways.

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A lot of space is taken up by the front diff and driveshafts.

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What's traction?? :shrug:

Mechanical grip to put the power down. :)

My Cerbera has 255/40 ZR17 Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric 2s on the rear and on all but the warmest driest days will spin wheels through 1st gear, break traction if aggressive on the clutch in to 2nd, will break traction at around 50mph in 2nd as the revs and torque builds and on damp days it'll spin wheels in 3rd too - which can happen at between 70~100mph.

Our main family car is a Jaguar XFR-S on 295/30 ZR20 Michelin Pilot Super Sports. It does pretty much the same thing. Or in other words, both cars are performance limited by traction rather than power for the majority of the time.

I was asking because your Cobra sounds like it has a lot of torque for a light car and I expect it could potentially be an exercise in feathering the loud pedal - although it looks warmer and sunnier where you are so hopefully the roads are warmer and the tyres a bit stickier. Sometimes you see people saying their car feels great on cold days with denser air. I have the opposite problem in Scotland. On cold days, I have more power than the tyres can cope with.

For me personally, a car has just the right amount of power if wheelspin is usually pretty easy, but in the right conditions and with the right techniques you can get a good launch and reach wide-open-throttle through the lower gears. But only when conditions are right. :) It's a real treat, but the car commands respect the rest of the time and never gets boring.

I still aim to build myself a Cobra replica some day. My wife is happy with the concept :)

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Two, that set-up certainly looks the biz in that little gnat-weight buggy. 330Hp looks just about right. Does the turbo come in with a bang and get you sideways?

And James, I agree with your power observations. By all means build that Cobra. If a small block, build a very snotty 302 that rasps up to 7000 through Webers. If a big block, build that SideOiler at 481 cubes and over 600 HP; that's very easy (but not cheap) to do these days.

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Codger, think I may have told you before but that is one of the most authentic looking Cobra's I've ever seen and I've spent half my life looking at originals and replicas. I live near to the old AC factory and nearly bought the neighbouring house!

Shame they ended their days making these beauties! :)

http://www.virtualgaz.com/updateoct04/IC/JNJ%20TIC%20front.JPG

Edited by vontrips
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Two, that set-up certainly looks the biz in that little gnat-weight buggy. 330Hp looks just about right. Does the turbo come in with a bang and get you sideways?

The turbo does come in with a bang, and I love it!

I've only ever spun the wheels once. On very cold tyres on a greasy wet road coming off a roundabout. Otherwise it is pretty hard to do actually with the 4 wheel drive system. LSD at the rear and LSD between front and rear with a 40:60 torque split fore:aft.

Clogging it mid corner and the car just leaps forward with the front wheels pulling the nose round so little or no understeer. In fact if you really push it the whole car just starts drifting outward without the front or rear stepping out.

It's not as light weight as many in its class though. The extra diffs and drive shafts add about 70kgs or so. It tipped the scales at 847kg with full fuel and me on board. So probably about 740kg with an empty tank.

It only has a 7 gal tank and does 20mpg (unless you cane it when it drops alarmingly), so as the saying goes "It'll pass anything except a garage."

Edited by Twobad
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Codger, think I may have told you before but that is one of the most authentic looking Cobra's I've ever seen and I've spent half my life looking at originals and replicas. I live near to the old AC factory and nearly bought the neighbouring house!

Shame they ended their days making these beauties! :)

http://www.virtualgaz.com/updateoct04/IC/JNJ%20TIC%20front.JPG

Most kind of you to say so VT. The most valuable comments I cherish that I've gotten have been from industry professionals and the knowledgeable such as yourself.

Wow! A genuine Thames Ditton resident! Can you take a photo for me of the legendary tree stump that the (unjustly named) winos allegedly pounded out the ally panels on?? :fool::lol:

Derek Hurlock must be livid!

Here is a very comprehensive history of AC including your Petite link shown:

http://fazeonemedia.com/accarsltd/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/AC-Cars-History-BF-141113.pdf

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Will try to get some pics of the area for you. Thames Ditton is very posh - too posh for the likes of me! We did an internet search of the local demographics when we were property hunting. One of the most startling facts at the time was the residents had the highest percentage of porn downloads in the UK - LOL! You live and learn!

Regarding the invalid carriage; my Great Aunt (a polio victim) had one and used to rag it everywhere! She rolled it into a ditch upsidedown. Passers by helped her out unscathed! She was eventually given a another replacement by the NHS and continued driving for many years!!!

Edited by vontrips
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