Codger Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Being in the US generally deprives us of some very cool cars that you chaps are privy to. Always interested in sharp-edged track / street cars, I have lusted after Ginettas for decades. Yet I see no mention of them here among enthusiasts. Caterhams and their cousins are wonderful as was the Elise but I do not understand the absence of discussion of these feather-weight, sophisticated weapons of tire destruction. I know there's a very narrow audience for them and they're not built in your garage but surely they are interesting. Please inform a Yank who loves fast cars. http://www.ginetta.com/index.php 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpion Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 It could be because there's no kit yet been released! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetroRacing Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 From what I remember of ginetta's they had a period of being just a kit car for old Ford Sierra's and the like. Recently they have done quite well with there one make championshipships however they are expensive for just a track toy. Therefore people with the money for one will mostly look elsewhere. Like the Caterham's and Westfeild's. As a road car again there are better performance cars for the same money. I think the same can be said for Marcos too. And look what happened to TVR. A lot of what has happened to the British sports car industry can be attributed to the change in taste of the market. Hot hatches and super saloons are what people buy. They want the performance but the practicality you don't get with a 2 seater sports car. Ashley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthewbacon Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Ginetta has pretty much got out of the road car business and is focused on various racing classes. TVR is back, with a new car due shortly, and older ones are clever choices for "modern classic" investors at the moment (and actually not too much money to buy). I think the track day scene is pretty divided between run what you brung, favoring all kinds of hot hatches and hot other things, and dedicated track day cars like BAC Monos, Radicals, Atoms and the new Zenos E10, most of which you probably could drive there, in fair weather, as long as it's not too far, but I bet most arrive at the track on a trailer behind a Discovery Sport... bestest, M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) Great insights and that improves my understanding. Wish they were available and more common here... Edited March 23, 2016 by Codger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I 'almost' bought a Ginetta G4 some years ago and now kick myself frequently because I didn't. It was (don't cry - £450!) and now they fetch absolutely daft money. Ho hum... Roy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengalensis Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 From what I remember of ginetta's they had a period of being just a kit car for old Ford Sierra's and the like. Recently they have done quite well with there one make championshipships however they are expensive for just a track toy. Therefore people with the money for one will mostly look elsewhere. Like the Caterham's and Westfeild's. As a road car again there are better performance cars for the same money. I think the same can be said for Marcos too. And look what happened to TVR. A lot of what has happened to the British sports car industry can be attributed to the change in taste of the market. Hot hatches and super saloons are what people buy. They want the performance but the practicality you don't get with a 2 seater sports car. Ashley I'm bias, but I've never really bought in to the "better cars for the money" point of view - that's the preserve of Porsche drivers, and lots of others (us TVR drivers) find Porsches a bit clinical and dull to drive. There's nothing will touch a TVR today for a visceral, immersive driving experience whilst in comfort and with an amazing soundtrack. If there's a problem with cars like these, then it's simply that there are too few people who want a car that needs to be driven. Most are interested in looking sporty but are all about cup holders. The fact that Italian supercars have tended towards being detached drives because most of the customers are London dwellers who want to be able to use a supercar in stop-start traffic easily says it all. If Ginetta has a weakness in the emotive stakes, it's probably only that they're mostly using 4-pot engines that are a bit same-same. You buy an Elise for the handling - the engine could be anything. You buy a Caterham for the open wheel package and handling - again the engine is almost neither here nor there. Ginetta is moving towards the 6-pot which IMO is a good move. Outright power is not so important, but plenty good quality soundtrack is. Like I said though, I'm bias - I love raw, visceral cars with a body which doesn't feel mass-produced 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triumphfan Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Thanks Jorgen. I bet this is, A. 1/24 scale and B. Not been available for ages! Where do you find all these rare resin kits? I'm not a huge fan of Ginetta but I'd love a G4 kit like this one. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowen250 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 PRetty sure that is a resin slot car kit, so 1/32. try www.pendleslotracing.co.uk for more potentially? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengalensis Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 1/24 scale resin, from "Hobby House Star Dust" in Japan as it's scribbled on the box. Bought it from a private seller in Japan a number of years ago, sadly I've never seen one since apart from a nicely built one in a show photo from somewhere Japan. The kit looks quite nice and would deserve to be issued again. Lovely cars these Ginetta's and their likes, so far from dull and clinical, providing lot's of inspired driving. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowen250 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 1/24 scale resin, from "Hobby House Star Dust" in Japan as it's scribbled on the box. Bought it from a private seller in Japan a number of years ago, sadly I've never seen one since apart from a nicely built one in a show photo from somewhere Japan. The kit looks quite nice and would deserve to be issued again. Lovely cars these Ginetta's and their likes, so far from dull and clinical, providing lot's of inspired driving. i stand corrected! Lovely little thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 This discussion shows me that there's a good bit of knowledge and passion about Ginittas and cars of that type. I'm just surprised there's not much conversation or show / tell in the enthusiast press or on the web. I could easily see a 1/12 model to go with Tamiya's Caterhams. But again such a narrow focus audience makes it impractical for a company to tool one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 ...or even 1/8.... (?) Roy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthewbacon Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 There was an interesting show on Children's BBC a couple of years ago following three teenagers entering the introductory Ginetta based race series, which is billed as the next step from karting. Episode One is one Vimeo: but it's not available through the iPlayer at the moment, as far as I can see... bestest, M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetroRacing Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) If anybody still watches the BTCC coverage on itv4. They broadcast live from 10am till 6pm showing all the Sunday support races too. They used to show the Ginetta Junior cup, which is for 14-18 year olds I believe. And then the full bloodied Ginetta super cup. I've drifted in and out if the coverage the last few years so I'm not sure if they are still part of the BTCC race weekends. The juniors use to run the G20's then I think they replaced them with the G40? The super cup used the G50 then introduced the G55. Ginetta launched the G55 as a road car too as I saw it at the autosport show one year. Plus a college friend did a work placement at a company that built the wiring harness for them, so I'm fully aware of Ginetta as a company and what they build, which is what shaped my response previously. They build 2 models of race car targeted purely at the teams that race in their single make championships, and a street version of each built to order. That's it and a lot of people I know that are into cars don't even know they are still active. Assuming they even knew about them to start with lol. So if they are going to get a bigger audience they need a bit of publicity for the masses. There was a big who-har a while back about the return of Marcos yet I've not heard of anything since. Are they still going? And Noble have their audience after a few mentions on the old top gear. Being a Leicester lad myself I'm always glad when Noble get a mention lol. Apparently the creator of Noble who now isn't affiliated with the company is working on his own. Something with a twin turbo v6 last I heard lol. And I am glad TVR is back in business and I believe it's with the original creator, or his family at least. I'd heard the news before but again it was a while ago and I've not heard anything since lol. Ashley Edited March 24, 2016 by MetroRacing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 TVR is now owned by Les Edgar, who recently had been working with Aston Martin's racing team but made himself a success with a company called Bullfrog which pioneered isometric view platform video games starting with "Theme Hospital" just as home-computer really took off. He's just reach an agreement with the Welsh government to base his factory in South Wales in an investment zone. Gordon Murray has done the chassis design and the cars will be built using his patented iStream production process. Test mules have been driving around for a while now with the full running gear. The engine is a Cosworth modified and tuned Ford Coyote - their current quad cam 5.0 litre all alloy V8. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetroRacing Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Ahh so there's going to be 2 distinct generations of the TVR brand. No doubt the original will be considered the 'best' era in due course lol. Much like the original vs new mini. I'll never forgive BMW for what they did when they sold off Rover and kept the mini developments. It's always nice when us brits tune the biggies. More power for your money Damn it my hankering for the Rover 75 v8 is back haha Ashley Edited March 24, 2016 by MetroRacing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 TVR is now owned by Les Edgar, who recently had been working with Aston Martin's racing team but made himself a success with a company called Bullfrog which pioneered isometric view platform video games starting with "Theme Hospital" just as home-computer really took off. He's just reach an agreement with the Welsh government to base his factory in South Wales in an investment zone. Gordon Murray has done the chassis design and the cars will be built using his patented iStream production process. Test mules have been driving around for a while now with the full running gear. The engine is a Cosworth modified and tuned Ford Coyote - their current quad cam 5.0 litre all alloy V8. Aston race team boffin, Gordon Murray and an alloy Ford 8 - very serious and quality elements for this project. Love to follow this development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 I guess this is the 3rd phase of TVR in particular. It was started by Trevor Wilkinson in the late 40s making kit cars until the 60s. Martin Lily continued this and made factory cars, Taimar, Vixen, the Wedges and S-series - mostly Ford Essex and Cologne V6 powered with some Rover V8s.Martin Lily sold TVR to Peter Wheel in the late 80s when the latter took his car in for a service. Under Peter Wheeler's shear beligerence for what customers wanted, he rolled out the Griffith at a motorshow in the beginning of the 90s and the Chimaera shortly after. Then he went mad and got Al Melling involved. Al, John Ravenscroft and Peter developed their own engine - the AJP8, a flat plane crank 75deg all alloy V8 with OHCs, lightweight skirtless slipper pistons, a tiny flywheel and individual throttle bodies and with dry sump lubrication. This went into the Tuscan race car then was given wet sump lubrication and fitted to the Cerbera. The AJP team then turned to a straight six. They fell out with Melling and the AJP6 became the Speed Six which went in to some Cerberas and all the subsequent "T cars" - Tuscan, Tamora, T350 and Sagaris.Problems with the Speed Six (now well understood and engineered out by Powers Performance and Str8Six - for anyone considering a Tiv now but afraid) hammered their finances and Wheeler decided to call it a day, selling to the son of a Russian tycoon called Smolenski. Wheeler's retirement was very short lived - he died very shortly afterwards.Smolenski had no real idea what he was doing and certainly lacked the experience to turn TVR around.Many consider the Wheeler era of supercar-slaying TVRs the golden age. Supercar slaying is an excuse to post this: I've had my Cerbera 3 years now, and it's a keeper!I'm sitting here writing this wondering to myself why I've never even looked for a model of a Cerb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codger Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 Great contribution and certainly a keeper!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roymattblack Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Aston race team boffin, Gordon Murray and an alloy Ford 8 - very serious and quality elements for this project. Love to follow this development. Dead right Mr C. ... I always smile when I see the 'less informed' take the 'pee' out of Aston Martin for using the ford based V8 and V12. They are bl--dy incredible engines. Who took the mickey out of all the F1 teams years ago for using the cosworth Ford V8??? NOBODY. Those who actually know anything, know that Jaguar designed and built the V8 for the XK8 and at the time it was wideley hailed as the best V8 in the world. OK, it was Ford money, and some years later built in a Ford plant. So what? I don't understand the mentality of those who knock Ford technology. The Aston DB7 ran for over 5 years with a Jaguar engine. There have been so many cars over the years with Ford money or Ford based lumps. Lotus wouldn't even exist now if it wasn't for Ford. Some of the best and most successful race AND road cars of all time have tipped their hat to Ford. Well done, I say. Edited March 24, 2016 by roymattblack 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthewbacon Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) ...and what was pushing a GT40 around, as well...? Does anyone who actually KNOWS anything knock Ford engines? Certainly not Caterham, Westfield, Zenos, Radical or BAC, whose latest track cars all sport Ford or Cosworth-fettled Ford engines... bestest, M. Edited March 24, 2016 by cmatthewbacon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
injidup Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) My Westfield had a Nissan engine :-P Edited March 25, 2016 by injidup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triumphfan Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I wouldn't knock the Ford engine but personally I think a lot of the popularity is based around availability and cost. Even the kit car crowd and grass roots racers use Ford engines and parts for this reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now