airscale Posted September 18, 2016 Author Share Posted September 18, 2016 evening folks - it's all changed around here haven't quite worked out quotes yet - I like to say hello first, but can't seem to write above a quote? so have left it for now - I was going to say PR I have the tailwheel covered - I made the strut long enough to crop down when the time comes - I know the dimensions but want it sat on a table before I start shortening it so, onto whats been going down... ..small matter of realising the fin was completely wrong - I knew the geometry was out when I was doing the tailwheel, but thought I could compensate with the skinning - wrong (and it would have been a bad idea to live with it..) ..I chopped it off and refixed it correctly - you can see how far out by the sternpost (oops).. ..to get the sternpost & profile right I made a brass template... ..more bracing and then some filler and it was getting more like it should be... ..I used a cutting disc to cut out the area where the stabiliser torque rod goes through the fuselage... ..and with the rudder - the skinning will form a shroud around it's leading edge.. ..realised there is another big bit of chopping around before skinning can start - the ailerons... ...here marking them out... ..and again a cutting disc to cut them out... ..I ended up cutting back to where the full aileron sits as there is a shroud on the top skin to fair it in.. ..I have the monforton drawings and will use them to make the ailerons even though they are the 'long' aileron because as far as I can tell the hinge points are in the same place... ..now before I do that does anyone know if that is right? the 'short' ailerons look the same in every respect except they end 2 ribs shorter than the long one? ..will start making them tomorrow, so hopefully it's ok to use the drawing, but please chime in if not TTFN Peter 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Rich Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Welcome back, Peter! Got your message at the top of the post. I love the boldness with which you chop a kit apart and make it new. The cutting wheel really does a great job on the mixed media (brass, filler and glass) that you have laid in the wing. At the scale of these photos, they look so clean! Bravo! PR 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S5 modeller Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Great work, as usual, Peter. Hope you enjoyed your break. Matt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunarhighway Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 You're doing Reginald Mitchell proud!, although one wonders what he would have thought if he'd lived to see the XIV or what the XIV would have looked like if he'd had a hand in it. Here are some shots of the real ailerons (i hope it's ok to post these here, but it thought they might be of intrest) note the screws that hold on the clipped wing tips these pictures are taken at different visits and apparently the ailerones moved between visits... but than we all know museum exhibits come alive at night, so that explains it. Also note the slightly dropped flaps. wartime spitfires always kept their flaps up, except when landing, as these blocked of the airflow trough the radiators and deflected debris into them 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted September 20, 2016 Author Share Posted September 20, 2016 evening folks & thanks lunarhighway for those shots of the ailerons very, very useful.. ..I went ahead and started making them as I thought it better to have two equally sized ailerons and make them fit the wings, than make two spaces for them to go and risk they were not the same size when it came to fitting.. ..I wanted to use the parts I had cut from the wing as I knew these were profiled with the wing itself, but the leading edge is largely missing from these due to how they were cut out of a solid.. you can see the leading edge here and the general shape of the aileron - it fits into a shroud on the upper wing skin and is quite unequal in shape between the top and the bottom in terms of what can be seen.. ..I used the plans to cut the bottom from litho and stuck this to the aileron so I could build up the shape in P38 filler - I also blocked out the hinge points so I wouldn't need to cut them out later on and to get nice clean straight edges.. ..I have learnt to trim the filler with a knife while it is curing to save on what needs shaping with sanding blocks & files, but you can see here how the rough shape has been built out and how the hinge points worked out once the bottom shaping sheet and the hinge blocks had been removed.. ..I marked with a sharpie the relevent 'sand to here' lines and started shaping to the final form.. ..and the pair primed - the pinholes don't matter as they will be skinned over ..the real one has two layers of skinning - the aileron itself, and then the strengthening shapes along the leading edge & hinges - seen here.. ..again I used the plan to derive the rivet pattern on the main skin.. ..and the first bit of skinning goes down - it doesn't need to be too neat at the leading edge as another panel will cover that.. ..thats it for now - still can't quite believe how well it is all going - I am sure I will screw something big up soon TTFN Peter 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Marvellous. I've also learnt about Spitfire ailerons and shrouds on the upper wing skin... great stuff, thanks Peter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Rich Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Indeed, I too am learning a lot on Spits! Don't worry about screwing something up Peter; you've already had your BIG catastrophe when the shelf fell on the Firecat. You've learned way too much since the Sea Fury to go too far afield I think! (Just my humble opinion) But seriously, you don't let things get you down or get in the way, for if you do, you do a marvellous job of hiding it! You seem to attack each new problem with a creative nature and inquisitive mind. What fun bits of what can be made into this, that or the other thing? That is why I enjoy following your work so much! Far better than any reality TV show! Educational and inspirational as well. (Now if I only had time to build something myself!) [sigh] Back to work for me... Night all! PR 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunarhighway Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Up close it looks like most real spitfires are less straight that what you're building, so if anything you're doing to good a job 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 thank you for dropping in and hello again ..just a little postette today with a few pics.. skinned the bottom of the ailerons so both have the base skinning and end caps... ..started to prepare the second strengthener skin by adapting a tape template of the part and blending it with the plan layout - have to do this as obviously the plan is flat in two dimensions so the measurements are out for a part that curves down and away from a plan view.. ..the prepared part - the hinge openings are quite complex, not just a slot.. this was also annealed for a few seconds over a gas stove to soften it and the back sanded to get it nice & flat for a good, low profile fit... ..and the top of one is finished... ..the strengtheners on the lower skins are a lot more complex with lots of access panels so will be a bit more exciting to make TTFN Peter 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heath Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Ahw, yet more unbelievably impressive work. Quote you've already had your BIG catastrophe when the shelf fell on the Firecat. How is the Firecat doing? I was most impressed seeing it at Telford last year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Now that the aileron is built, yes, the hinge locations remained the same. There's a slight chance that the hinge line might have shifted a bit, because they experimented with that while trying to get lighter ailerons, but I'll have to see if I can find any evidence yeah or nay. bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted September 22, 2016 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 (edited) thank you chaps Bob thanks for checking on the ailerons, it is reassuring they are right - and if they are not they will be staying that way a few words & pics from today.... ..I started the lower strengthening skin.. this one has a lot of access panels and circular fittings with a particular rivet pattern around them.. I made up the drawing, transferred it to litho and punched out the holes - I also made a little template so I could rivet around the fixings.. ..and the part after working it and burnishing it flat (thats why its curved a bit if that makes sense..) - the rivets still have little circles of tape in them that the jewelers awl leaves behind... ..when it came to the circular access panels, I had already designed some circular ones that go in various places in the wings and the smallest of these matched to a 5.5mm punch.. ..as for the tiny ones, I had also prepared many Dzus fasteners for the cowlings and these were the same size, matched another punch and so while not 100% accurate are good enough for me.. ..the PE fitted well and I think looks the part - I like that the nickel silver PE is a different colour to the ali... ..just got to do the other one now TTFN Peter Edited September 22, 2016 by airscale 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted September 22, 2016 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 22 hours ago, Nigel Heath said: How is the Firecat doing? I was most impressed seeing it at Telford last year. Funny you should ask Nigel - I unpacked it and put it together for a fondle a couple of weeks ago... it is up next, right after the Spit Thanks for asking and I may take it to Telford again this year if there is room on the 32SIG table TTFN Peter 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Rich Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Peter, Good to see the Firecat on her feet again! I check the forum pages for it from time to time. You know I would swear those ailerons were the real thing! Completed to stunning effect!! Bravo!!! PR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 evening all I doubt anyone has ever posted for days about ailerons, but here I am again - but at least now they are finished.. all the skinning is done, and I sorted out the hinge areas - I somehow got them slightly different on each one so they needed correcting - I again used the plan and made tape templates to even everything up and get the size and alignment right... ..also added some of the structure in the hinges and embedded some brass tube so they can slide onto rods in the wing.. ..and thats it - complete... next up the shrouds they sit in in the wing... until next time.. TTFN Peter 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 I don't know why you don't just go the whole hog and do one in 1:1 scale Peter... just the same levels of detail, only the metal parts are a bit bigger 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted September 26, 2016 Author Share Posted September 26, 2016 evening folks Quick question to start... I have been using wire wool - the finest grade (0000) to clean up the parts I make, but I have just made a discovery - some stuff called Cape Cod Cloths - they are made for cleaning jewelery but do an amazing job on the litho plate I use - I haven't decided if I will do the whole airframe in case it looks too 'Reno racer' but it certainly brings up a shine... what do you think - too much? prefer the matted out version? I have started to fit the ailerons - checking for fit I can see I need to open the aperture up each side and build up the missing section ahead of the leading edge... ..after opening it out a bit, I lined each of the sides with litho and put some false hinges in so I could get constant alignment... ..I also put a false skin on the top, again to get all the positioning right.. ..this resulted in the area being set out to work in - now I know where the shroud ends and the gaps for the hinges should be.. ..to build up the leading edge, I needed to start with the housing / aileron shroud so I bent a sheet and scored roughly the right outline... ..these were then given a little detail and temporarily fixed so they could be marked for cutting to their true shape.. ..I also added a rivet strip to the bottom edge.. ..once the shroud sections were fitted, I masked up to add P38 filler to build up the missing wing section.. ..and now both shrouds are complete.. ..I have taped folded card over both areas now to protect them while I get ready to start skinning the main airframe.. thats it for now TTFN Peter 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 Still amazing Peter. I must say I prefer the matted out version but I guess you could get a varied finish with a mix of both? Or perhaps part polishing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Rich Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Yes, amazing stuff! I was at the gathering of P-40's organised by the CAF at PDK (the old NAS Atlanta) for the 75th AVG Reunion in Atlanta this past weekend. One of the vendors was displaying his array of Warhawk parts (including a tail section); all of which reminded me of your work! But I was surprised to find this very cool visitor: Got to hear Allisons, Merlins and more. It was music to my hears and medicine to my soul. (God made me a plane guy!) Stunning work Peter, simply stunning! PR 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom216 Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Truly awesome metal work. Fantastic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F4u Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 Lovely work Peter and the cloths look like they work well. Guy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 I'm getting RSI from punching 'Like' to all the updates! Quality stuff. Trevor 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_W Posted September 27, 2016 Share Posted September 27, 2016 You put more effort in to a single part than most mere mortals put in to a whole kit... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted September 27, 2016 Author Share Posted September 27, 2016 evening folks as always - thank you for taking the time to drop in and leave me some encouragement another day, another dollar... or in this case, another small bit of metal... ..big day for me and this build actually, today was about getting ready to start a long process of skinning the model - I spent the morning doing a bit of filling and shaping and then shot the whole airframe in etch primer... ..in trying to figure out where to start skinning with the least chance of damage while handling the model for months, I chose the upper wings - to do that I needed to start laying out what goes where - first up being the main spar location.. I took it from the plan and used thread to make sure it was straight and central - it's a great way of getting visual layout.. ..once I had the spar location I traced the panels onto greaseproof paper and added lines to both sides of it so I could go over them and it would leave a trace on the airframe to go over afterwards... ..soon had the layout on both wings... in choosing the first panel to start I thought about the innermost one, but then thought I need more to do to get the fillets right, so I moved outboard one panel to the one with the little flap indicator in it... ..I started with a template, riveted it (a lot..) and cut out the hole for the Flap indicator door - this was another little part I had made in my PE set. The panel also has a small thin teardrop blister that is something to do with the undercarriage - luckily on the air-racer I am doing it is the only blister on the wings - the white thing at the top of the pic is a template from thick card so I can form the blister.. ..the template is taped in place on the top of the panel - I have annealed this top corner to make it a bit softer..... ..and using one of a number of tools to work the blister into shape - in this case a paintbrush handle.. ..it got late so the panel is only resting in place for now, before I stick it down tomorrow... I also stuck a false leading edge panel down so all the other panels can butt up to it for a nice clean fit.. so there it is - the skinning has started - with 40,000 rivets on a Spitfire I can see this might get a bit repetitive from here on in, and for me probably a little painful with muscle fatigue Thanks all TTFN Peter 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Heath Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Brilliant work, I'm looking forward to seeing the skinning progress. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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