Pastor Rich Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Hey Peter, Would love to know more about your source for photo etch! I take it you are talking about PPD LTD? < http://www.ppdltd.com/ > Otherwise a feast for the eyes and imagination! Cheers, PR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 It may be a trick of the photos or something you've already got in mind, but the "kink" of the elevator line (stab trailing edge) near the tip doesn't seem to be the right angle? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted August 9, 2016 Author Share Posted August 9, 2016 It may be a trick of the photos or something you've already got in mind, but the "kink" of the elevator line (stab trailing edge) near the tip doesn't seem to be the right angle? Hi Bob - that is incredibly well spotted yes, the parts I have cut out run up to the face of the rear spar and where the cut-out is for the kinked elevator the line is at a slightly different angle to allow it to move the red line at the rear on this plan - R/S Datum.. (published under fair use...), that way the skin runs over the top of the spar and is the aerodynamic fairing over the elevator The skin at that part is also better seen here (again, under fair use..) .. glad you are keeping an eye on things! just about to build up the filler to make the cores... TTFN Peter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 G'day fellahs still plodding on - now it's the stabilisers to screw up, so I set about them... ..first making the shapes up with P38 car filler - a couple of goes to get the body shape and then fill in some holes & dips.. ..they were then refined until I could see the defining ribs... ..the leading edge is a wrap around part rivetted at the top and screwed at the bottom - another compound curve to deal with so I got a sheet of the soft ali and pressed into a bathroom sponge to get the initial wrap.. ..then it was taped and burnished to start adopting it's final shape - most of the creases form at the back and will be cut off.. ..I made a cutting template the same shape as the leading edge and cut it in situ... ..added the rivets freehand... ..also added the end pieces and a rear spar.. ..this was new for me - this time I got the tape template of the shape needed from the stabiliser, and added it to a scale printout of the rivet pattern - then it was just a matter of marking what goes where before transferring the tape to litho and actually making the part.. ..I have no excuse for getting this wrong.. ..and the top face is done in one part.. ..now to do the rest... TTFNPeter 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cngaero Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Peter, This has become a must view thread that just gets better and better. Your radiators and tailplanes are exquisite. I can't wait to see the finished article. If you don't mind me asking, where do you source your soft aluminium sheeting from? Cheers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Oh. My. Word. Trevor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGA Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 That stabiliser is so incredibly pretty Peter. So lovely to get my model fix even whilst I'm on holiday. Love your work mate! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob85 Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 As gob smacking as ever, it looks beautiful Rob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 thank you all - you really do say the nicest things and I very much appreciate it If you don't mind me asking, where do you source your soft aluminium sheeting from? Cheers. I wish I could say, but the soft ali was sent by someone in the US that saw my build on Hyperscale. I have no idea where they got it, and if I am honest I will be lost when I run out of it... it is like very, very thick tin foil (0.09mm in my calipers) and very unlike litho, more like pewter.. so, nothing new so to speak, I have finished both horizontal stabilisers and the air intakes.. ..first the bottom face of the horizontal stabilisers - these use the same method with tape and pencil marks, though I did make a litho template to scribe the 'D' shaped panel hatch near the trailing edge.. ..there are also four drain holes near the trailing edge on each one, otherwise skinned the same as the tops... ..and both are done.. ..there are some complex fillets that see the join to the fuselage is clean - these will be added once the tail section is skinned too.. ..onto the radiator fairings - the new PE arrived - these are deeper and the bars run wider... ..and once in place the baffles at the edges are much smaller than before and I am much happier about how they look... ..and the rear faces are done as well.. ..in place, some of the work can be seen so I am happy its not wasted.. ..and from the front the look is improved I think.. ..until next time folks.. might start looking at the prop and spinner next.. TTFN Peter 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Very nice Peter - those new grills really look the part. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGA Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Showstopper Peter. Wonderful! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Rich Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 I think it is safe to say that we as a community have used-up all the glowing words of praise and awe at your work Peter. Perhaps we'll have to invent new ones as I think we've effectively milked the English language dry! Or perhaps we should resort to other languages?! German perhaps? RICHTIG!!!! Thank you again for sharing your gift, PR 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F4u Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 More greatness Peter the rads look impressive as do the tail planes. Would love to get hold of the aluminium sheet you use . Guy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 thank you chaps - very kind I am a little confuzled - easy I know, but the prop has got me a bit stumped.. Wikipedia says the 5 blade Rotol is 3.18m in diameter, which makes it 181mm in 1/18 (actually 1/17.6 to the model) I scaled a plan - (unfortunately my Cooke plan does not cover the prop otherwise I would scale it to that) and added a profile of a blade that is flat to get the outline.. follow me so far? I then thought I would use the kit blade as a basis to start re-working and when I laid it on the plan it is much bigger... (here with 3D printed spinner..) now one of three things are happening: 1. my scaling is crap and the diameter is not 181mm 2. The FR47 from which the blade comes had a much bigger prop 3. The kit blade is the wrong size and I should just get on with it any thoughts or ideas? Peter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGA Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 (edited) Hey Peter, according to Wiki: This version of the Merlin used a "cropped" supercharger impellor to provide greater power at low altitudes than the standard engines; delivering 1,585 hp (1,182 kW) at 2,750 ft (838 m). Both engine models drove a four bladed 10 ft 9 in (3.28 m) diameter Rotol propeller. Which would make for a 18.22cm prop in 1:18th scale for the Seafire. So it is possible that the diameter used for the kit part is actually based on the 4 blade Rotol. Edited August 16, 2016 by TGA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookytooth Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Peter, like a lot of others I have ran out of superlatives do describe what we see. Fantastic stuff. As for the prop, I leave that to those who know better to inform you. Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 thanks chaps ..I have had some helpful guidance that the kit blade seems too big, and that scaling to 181mm is a good start (it's 177mm in 1/18 but the kit is a tiny bit bigger at 1 / 17.6 from the measurements I have taken) ..I found these pics of a stripped blade which while aesthetically is not really what it should be, it does help get a feel for the complex shapes involved... ..another useful one shows the sculpted transition from flat blade to circular mounting structure.. ..after a bit of a false start where I sat playing with the kit blade unable to comprehend what was going on with it as the orientation was all wrong - it faced backwards, I realised it was one of the contra prop blades from the FR47 (maybe that explains why they are bigger?) so I got one of the others and started on that... ..first I cut out a scale printout and stuck it to the kit blade.. ..I sprayed it with primer, using the printout as a mask.. ..the only rod I had of the right diameter for the core/mounting was brass - time will tell whether it was a bad idea to use it as it's not the easiest material to shape... ..I got a head start on the shaping with a dremel, drilled a pin into both the mount and the blade and bonded it with JB Weld Clear - first time I have used it, but people say it is mega strong ..will let that go off overnight and start shaping up tomorrow.. TTFN Peter 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Rich Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 (edited) Peter, What can you glean from the photos provided by Tony Taylor? By those, I see that the props are Rotol RA10379. Keep in mind Spits are not my thing but I can research like the rest. Some digging found this discussion on Hyperscale: http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1353429976/Spitfire+PR+Mk.+XIX+(also+Mk.+XIV)+Propeller+questions http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1382899425/Griffon+Spitfire+prop+question. The first link has drawings (with cross-section) of prop for S.31 Spitfire (XIX) which may not be what you are looking for? (Drawing below) Not sure if that is RA10379 or another blade? (Perhaps another blade -- you be the judge) This link has a discussion on Spit props as well: http://forum.keypublishing.com/archive/index.php/t-125216.html While gathering this you posted your photos and attempt at a blade. Your blade looks much like the one which drawings were provided. (This perhaps?) Cheers! PR Edited August 16, 2016 by Pastor Rich 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 PR that is most useful reference - I am very grateful ..not sure how exciting I can make making a prop blade, but here goes... ..I actually separated the blade and the shaft to move the shaft towards the leading edge as it is slightly off centre on the real one, then I used a dremel to thin the blade so it is flatter on the back and an aerofoil on the face... ..also started to create the blend between blade and shaft with blobs of CA ..a first coat of primer to help see what is what.. ..the join to the shaft still needs work, but the shape is getting there.. ..I needed to reduce the diameter of the shaft to fit into the 3D printed prop hub so for only the second ever time I used my new lathe ..and with the primer drying, it is nearly there - I need to make a little cuff that goes at the base where it meets the spinner but need to find clear pics of it first - then I will cast some copies... ..talking of spinners, I had a couple 3D printed - one slightly bigger than the other - this is the larger and I have turned down the backplate on the lathe as it was a little too big.. ..all the detail in the hub where the blades mount basically didn't come out - I think I asked too much of the process, but it works as a mount and I can always cast some bits to top each blade mount.. ..dremmelled out the thickness where it can be seen to get a nice scale effect - pretty much all the rivet detail didn't come out either so I will need to sort that out once I get a smooth primer coat.. ..and something I have really been looking forward to - giving the model a face ... ..thats it for now..TTFNPeter 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGA Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Looking great Peter and knowing you I am certain the hub and the spinner will be a work of art when you are done with it. What's the wingspan on this model Peter? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave665 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Peter, I'm also lost for words. This build is a delight to follow. I can only thank you for sharing it with us. Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airscale Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 who would have thought a propellor blade could be such an enigma... on this pic is a leading edge sheath visible from about half way up to the tip.. ..on this although a Mk V it is clearly visible on the outside of the Rotoloid coating.. and on TZ138 I swear I can see a light line on the lower blade where this would be.. so, I am about to add it to the master if I can make it subtle enough - is that right? this is complelling evidence enough right? ..lastly the little cuff thing that sits at the base of the blade, like this one.. ..I can find nothing else about it, no drawings, no decent photos other than this one - if anyone has any info please chime in? thanks in advance Looking great Peter and knowing you I am certain the hub and the spinner will be a work of art when you are done with it. What's the wingspan on this model Peter? Thank you the wingspan is about 58cm so pretty clunky on my little desk.. thanks Peter 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Rich Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Well, then, she certainly had different props on her in the day than those seen today in the photos Tony sent you. I can clearly see the leading edge sheath on #80 and would expect to see that. The boot cuff is not apparent in other pictures online and may be an experimental arrangement. Perhaps the owner tried props from another type (not-Spitfire) for racing? You may consider widening your search of props to other post-war aeroplanes that flew Rotol. My two-cents for whatever that is worth... PR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGA Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 So wierd that they still used, basically, wooden propellers!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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