1/18 Spitfire Mk. XIVe - Race #80

[F4u]

You are keeping busy where do you find the time ? as long as the Cat is ok I can wait for updates but that is a good choice of Spit love the Griffon engine marks.

Cheers

Guy

[Work In Progress]

Different aerofoil, but shouldnt matter too much, obviously blisters are completely different as are all but one panel line and the undercarriage wells are completely different shape, as are the rads and ailerons.

Basically its almost the same but totally different

No. The airfoil is unchanged, it's just the whole of the structure that is different. The change of airfoil came with the relatively unsuccessful Spiteful wing.

On the undercarriage, in addition to the shape of the wells, the new wing's undercarriage legs are much longer, and the undercarriage roots are further apart than on the old wing.

[John_W]

Wow, again...

Will the controls move when you wiggle the stick?

[Pagey]

absolutely fabulous

[John Aero]

I think that the 24/47 U/c pintle mounts are the same distance apart as the 18 but the wheel track is increased to 6' 8" on the 24/47. Be wary of some drawings, as they show the fin height of the Mk.18 to be the same as a Mk.14 it's not, it is the standard fin height ( ala Mk.IX) with the bigger horn balance.

[Giorgio N]

Oh, another masterpiece is coming, better keep an eye on this thread !

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

That seat...?!?! Your usual amazing attention to detail. I'm definitely in

(even if I would rather you stuck to a Seafire...)

[Work In Progress]

I think that the 24/47 U/c pintle mounts are the same distance apart as the 18 but the wheel track is increased to 6' 8" om the 24/47.

very happy to defer to John on this point... the track is certainly wider but if he reckons the pintle mount distance is the same then that's good enough for me.

[Miggers]

On the 47,the pintle mount distance is the same.

The oleos were lengthened by an inch,the main difference is indeed the track.

As far as I can work out,the stub axles were 3" longer and the wheels/tyres 3" wider giving the required 6" per side

to give the "foot wider" wheel track.

This also gave the need for the great big over wing blisters as sported by the Seaf.47.

[lunarhighway]

I think that the 24/47 U/c pintle mounts are the same distance apart as the 18 but the wheel track is increased to 6' 8" om the 24/47. Be wary of some drawings, as the show the fin height of the Mk.18 to be the same as a Mk.14 it's not, it is the standard fin height with the bigger horn balance.

be carefull with the rudder as some post war mk xiv's where equipted with the bigger xviii rudders, wich where both taller and longer. it also had a kinked trim tab

here's a post war belgian XIV with the XVIII style rudder:

it's hard to see if you don't know it, but it does change the overall look of the plane slightly

[airscale]

thank you all

I am beginning to realise even something as widely known as a Spitfire is still a bit of a mystery wrapped in an enigma for the uninitiated

thankfully I have you guys to keep me on track..

I think that the 24/47 U/c pintle mounts are the same distance apart as the 18 but the wheel track is increased to 6' 8" om the 24/47. Be wary of some drawings, as the show the fin height of the Mk.18 to be the same as a Mk.14 it's not, it is the standard fin height with the bigger horn balance.

thanks John - so the intention is to use the FR47 wing as nothing more than a template - the panels, control surfaces, U/C locationj & rivet patterns will be as per the 'E' wing plans in the Monforton book - is that the right way to go?

Incidentally, I have been speaking to the engineer who looks after the real airframe now and he says it has the right wing from a Mk IXc, after the aircraft had a crash landing in Texas in about 1969 - at least I don't have to model that complication!

be carefull with the rudder as some post war mk xiv's where equipted with the bigger xviii rudders, wich where both taller and longer. it also had a kinked trim tab

it's hard to see if you don't know it, but it does change the overall look of the plane slightly

thanks for that - I have this pic and I think it is the standard rudder - also shows the wing seems to have no cannon blisters, but would have the teardrop blister for the U/C? does that look the case?

..in other news, I have not had time at the bench, but at the PC - I have basically turned the details in the Monforton book into a monster PE fret 26cm x 13cm which I will have made in nickel silver by my friends at PPD - I think we should play spot the component

I really hope the HpH kit arrives tomorrow so I get a long weekend with it..

thanks again for any help, advice or just dropping in to say hello

TTFN

Peter

[Miggers]

Beware,the 47's wing is unique in having bigger flaps,shorter angled rads and different access panels to any other

Spit/Seafire.

This might help you too:

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/concise-guide-to-spitfire-wing-types.html

Jumpei Temma's drawings are spot on BTW.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Miggers

[lunarhighway]

Peter:

it does indeed looks like the standard rudder, no offset section on the trim tab and a short top balance.

I can't tell from the picture but i think over wheel bulges where more common on mk xvi's. they where a modification associated with a change in the wheel axle angle. the tires on the spitfire where angled inward (around 8° if memory servers) to aid with stability on the typical WW2 grass airfields. with the introduction of paved runaways after ww2 this setup was changed to a 4° angle by a relatively simple modification the the axel mounting, however to allow the weels to retract into the narrow bays the bulges where introduced.

wich makes means they're more likely to be found on planes that where opperated post war from paved runaways rather than planes that where likely soled as surplus

the belgian mk XIV wich was used post war does not have them for example

since the cannon blisters where on the access hatches for the cannons, replacing them with a flat sheet would be a simple and sensible mod on a raceplane.

as for the wings the 47 wing has no structural relation to the early spitfire wings. all other wings share identical outlines and related interor structures.

be ware that there also are differences in the wing the fuselage join between the "new" wing and the A to E wing spits

[Caerbannog]

Oh great - another most interesting topic to follow. And I must say I love your choice of liveries.

[John Aero]

I don't know why I mentioned Mk.18 rudders, Race No 80 (ex TZ138) has the standard Mk.XIV fin and rudder which incorporates the fin top block to increase the fin height (2.75" over the Mk.IX height). It does have the late 12" three slot wheels.

[airscale]

Peter:

I can't tell from the picture but i think over wheel bulges where more common on mk xvi's. they where a modification associated with a change in the wheel axle angle. the tires on the spitfire where angled inward (around 8° if memory servers) to aid with stability on the typical WW2 grass airfields. with the introduction of paved runaways after ww2 this setup was changed to a 4° angle by a relatively simple modification the the axel mounting, however to allow the weels to retract into the narrow bays the bulges where introduced.

wich makes means they're more likely to be found on planes that where opperated post war from paved runaways rather than planes that where likely soled as surplus

brilliant help - thank you - I really want to get it right so appreciate you taking the time to help a newbie

kit has not arrived yet so I have had to busy myself with some other parts..

..today is about learning and experimenting and that the first solution is not always the best option.. it also seems some crap has got into my camera so sorry about the black smudges here & there..

..I started with the control column - I scaled a drawing and found an appropriate diameter rod to start trying to form the very distinctive loop shape..

..it was actually a really hard shape to make - I also turned a brass spigot on my dremel (must get a lathe..) to mount it into..

..the real one has two rings on either side to give better grip I guess, so I made these too..

..I tried getting the rubber effect by using heat shrink tubing - it took ages to slide the tubing over the rings and around the circumference - the first one is on the right below - I wasn't happy as it looked too clunky and not textured. This gave me the idea to use guitar string so I made one from that... with this one I just could NOT get the tubing around it and over the rings so I tried others where I put the tubing on first and bent the shape...

..many attempts later..

..I also tried to make the part the grip actually sits on - I made a paper template and then folded it up from brass sheet - on the left the first attempt - totally fried by my mini blowtorch - I am still a serious learner when it comes to soldering.... on the right take two when I used a soldering iron

..another in the long line of trial and error was the gun button - I figured an air racer wouldn't have one, but actually the mounting is part of the casting of the grip so I thought I would leave it on ..

again, at the top the first attempt was to scribe lines into soft ali pipe which I thought I would section and bend around to give the grooved button... fail... at the bottom a section of X-acto handle I worked up which worked out much better..

..the finished front of the button and it's housing..

..and all the parts combined,,,

..it's a really iconic part so I hope I captured it..

TTFN

Peter

[(ex)Sgtrafman]

Oh I think you nailed it!

Iain

[Col.]

Yip. That worked

[Nigel Heath]

Stunning stuff.

[Pascal]

This is brilliant !

I also use a dremel ( because I don't have a lathe), but it's very difficult to cut small rings from a alu or brass tube.

Can you please tell me how you made the two rings for the grip ?

I'm also curious how you got the rides of those rings so perfectly round.

Sincerely

Pascal

[airscale]

This is brilliant !

I also use a dremel ( because I don't have a lathe), but it's very difficult to cut small rings from a alu or brass tube.

Can you please tell me how you made the two rings for the grip ?

I'm also curious how you got the rides of those rings so perfectly round.

Sincerely

Pascal

Hi Pascal - thanks for stopping by

The rings are just 'slices' of aluminium tube - they are then put on a tapered grinding bit in the dremel that grips them and acts as a mandrel and spun up against a file or sanding stick.. funny, when i was making them I thought they looked like a pair of tiny wedding rings..

so, I went and got a new camera as mine had crud inside it on the lens and there was no way of getting in there - it is only a little point and click digital one so has served me well. Went to the local electronics store and bought literally the last camera they had - apparently as everyone uses their phones there is no market for cheap small cameras.. oh well £60 got me a Sony Cybershot and this post is about trying it out

the actual modelling involved is about making the brake lever on the control grip..

this is it, stuck onto a sheet of thicker sheet brass stock..

..I went around the outline with my scalpel through the paper..

..and with a thin cutting wheel on my dremel, I set about gently removing material around the outline..

..finished with files & rasps and a sanding pad polish...

..cut it from the sheet and added the two small bends in it..

..added the mounting bracket to the grip and fitted it and the back of the gun button..

..and calling this little bit done..

..the pics don't seem too bad I hope you agree, although it is not as quick to focus as my old one..

TTFN

Peter

[Spookytooth]

You make things look so simple Peter, if only...

Stunning mate.

Simon.

[airscale]

morning all

... hot tip time...

yesterday I told the family it was International Mens Day - that got me a good solid day at the bench without chores or disturbance so I got the control column nearly finished...

surprised they didn't google it, but hey...

..I started with making the pressing that shrouds the control chains that go from the grip to the base of the stick and all the control wires - it's a complicated shape and I pondered how to do it - I tried grinding from solid stock but that failed - in the end I tried emulating the original as a sheet pressing...

again, a paper template to get the original, I added the two sides I would fold up, and here I am trying to cut out the centre for where the column itself will go..

..this part has about 2 hours in it - all the time I was terrified I would slip and bend it as it is quite fragile - once you do that it's terminal...

..the final part with the column itself - I used reference pics to make exactly what I see...

..and the sub-assemblies ready to come together - one fake mini-bolt holds it all together...

..it was fiddly, but once together, I just put a drop of CA on the retaining nut and it was done..

..as a bolt was used it moves freely, here we are rolling to the right

..I still need to add the back plate and some gubbins at the rear of the grip mounting and then top it off with a curved pressing that rounds off the big lower plate and then it really will be finished..

TTFN

Peter

PS - I am pleased with the new camera - now I have worked out that I need to take pics from a distance and crop the picture to get a close up - not bad at all for £60...

[Christer A]

It's definitely miniature modelling, but maybe not of the plastic variety...

Or rather, it's a stunning piece of art!

[gingerbob]

Well, I tried to quote and got all fouled up. Not really needed anyway. Just to reinforce:

The airfoil is NOT different, and, as per Jonners and Jun's drawing, if you cut back to where the wingtip bolted on, you'll have the same basic wing outline. As you know, flaps and ailerons (and main gear) will need to be restored to "normal Spitfire" shapes (short ailerons, not "original" length). On the tail, you'll need to revert to the "Mk.XIV" (aka "Griffon") fin and rudder, and I think that a portion of the latter at least can be found in the outline of the big tail. Likewise the horizontals will need to be cut back at the root to return to the traditional shape and span.

bob