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Alize colour question


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Alizé of the 1st generation were Blue-Grey on top, (slightly) off-white undersides.

Black propeller, no spiral.

Radar dome as black too, as was always the name on the nose.

Note that he 2nd type of camo had a deeper blue-grey topside and a totally white undderside.

And the orange spiral appeared on the propeller cone.

Edited by Hamster Volant
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Thanks Hamster, but any clue as to what these blue/greys were?

Any references for French paints?

I just can't find anything beyond WWII for what tones France used and when I look at

model paints there ain't half a lot of blue/greys out there to choose from! :confused:

Cheers, Tony

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Sorry that I'm not savvy enough to add text to the above pic. It is from a print I have and don't know the photographer.It was taken at a Lossiemouth airday in the mid tol ate sixties

Perhaps it's my eyes but even on a 50 year old print I would not say that the underside colour was '(slightly) off-white. The Etendard IVM behind has white undersides and the roundel has white inner ring. I think there is just too much of a contrast for the undersides to be off-white.

Hope I'm not coming across as too opinionated..I'm as keen as anybody else to find out the colour as I intend to build the above airframe when my kit arrives.

RG

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According to the instructions with Berna Decals #48-40 for the Alize:

Camouflage scheme 'A' (1970s) was Extra Dark Sea Grey over Sky

Scheme 'B'(1980s) was FS 595 26270 over White

both had the high color demarcation

Scheme 'C' was 26132 over 26270

DG

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Thanks guys, I think you've solved it for me and the Berna decals info is perfect - the B scheme is the one I was after. Seems like this was the second

scheme not the earliest as I had thought which explains the white vs sky confusion in my mind.

I can now track down some paint off that FS number.

Thanks to you all once again

Tony

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[snip]

I can now track down some paint off that FS number.

26270 is the semigloss version of the standard (modern) US Neutral Gray -think F-16 nose and underside; available in most paint lines in the flat finish, 36270.

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I picked the names in the "Histoire & Collection" book about the Alizé and some old Air Fan magazines...

Unfortunately there's no paint code for the blue-grey in the book, but a search gave me the following reference (from an Aéronavale card a modeller apparently manage to get hold off):

  • Alizé before Sept 1980:
    • Gamme nitro vinylique HR Astral 4 /785 couleur gris bleu foncé 7326
    • Gamme nitro vinylique HR Astral 4 /785 couleur gris ciel 6051
  • Alizé after Sept 1980: (same as Etendard IV and Atlantic)
    • Gamme polyuréthane Sikkeurs ref c21/100-67 gris bleu clair
    • Gamme polyuréthane Sikkeurs ref c21/100-67 blanc

What I wrote as off-white looks closer to a creamy white but apparently it is "gris ciel" (= sky grey?)

Berna is not necessarily the most reliable source... unfortunately!

Extra DSG looks a bit too dark and not blue enough.

And the 26270 for BOTH topside of 80's scheme and underside of latest 2 greys scheme is highly dubious...

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I picked the names in the "Histoire & Collection" book about the Alizé and some old Air Fan magazines...

Unfortunately there's no paint code for the blue-grey in the book, but a search gave me the following reference (from an Aéronavale card a modeller apparently manage to get hold off):

  • Alizé before Sept 1980:
    • Gamme nitro vinylique HR Astral 4 /785 couleur gris bleu foncé 7326
    • Gamme nitro vinylique HR Astral 4 /785 couleur gris ciel 6051
  • Alizé after Sept 1980: (same as Etendard IV and Atlantic)
    • Gamme polyuréthane Sikkeurs ref c21/100-67 gris bleu clair
    • Gamme polyuréthane Sikkeurs ref c21/100-67 blanc

What I wrote as off-white looks closer to a creamy white but apparently it is "gris ciel" (= sky grey?)

Berna is not necessarily the most reliable source... unfortunately!

Extra DSG looks a bit too dark and not blue enough.

And the 26270 for BOTH topside of 80's scheme and underside of latest 2 greys scheme is highly dubious...

These sound much better to me, too. Model Art/Berna specialize in French subjects, but I'm not sure where they got those call-outs. The French have used FS colors for some aircraft, but it's not typical.

It looks like color representations that match Hamster Volant's descriptions have been posted on the French-language site "Passion D'Ailes" but only registered users can access them. http://www.passion-ailes.net/t789-couleurs-de-l-aeronavale

Another discussion on the use of Gris Bleu Clair on Breguet Atlantics suggests that the color lies between FS 26270 and 25237.

DG

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Ah, that looks interesting.

I must admit my initial look at FS26270 gives a decidedly grey colour. I was expecting more blue, however my memory is probably clouded by seeing these under very blue skies. lol

A mix toward 25237 would indeed be bluer though and might be more what I recall.

Xtracolor do (or did?) x389 Gris Bleu Clair but as a WWII colour I think. It doesn't appear on big H at the moment anyway.

A quick search on Sikkeurs doesn't turn up much, I think I might be brushing up some French to get on to Passion D'Ailes site....gulp!

Tony

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From your link;

They were then covered with a two-tone paint. The top surfaces were a color approximating slate, while the lower surfaces were of a very light green (green water). The dividing line was clear, just above the exhaust turbo-thruster. The spinner was dark, the tip of yellow blades.

For the green water I can see where we could use Sky, but any ideas for the "slate"?

For later;

From 1982, the workshops of Cuers begin to change Alizé with new equipment (radar, navigation system and sound buoys). The lower surfaces of the Alizé "modernized" (ALM) then receive a white paint.

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We're the Indian Navy ones delivered in French colours? Also did they stay in these colours?

Julien

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As far as my references go, yes, they were painted in the 1st French scheme at delivery.

Though I have not found yet any info about a repaint in other colours, it looks doubtful they have serve all those years w/ regular maintenance w/o any changes...

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Thx, looks like we are no nearer finding a match for the French "slate" yet.

No, I don't think that's true.

We know the actual specification is for "Gris Bleu Fonce." Assuming the French maintained consistency in their color names and hues over time, there are numerous matches for Gris Bleu Fonce cited here on BM

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/80419-dewotine-d520/

These include Humbrol 79, and Xtracolour X125. I have used Testors ModelMaster 1720 Intermediate Blue 35164 to my satisfaction to represent postwar French Gray-Blue with some fading from exposure.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I apologize for the bad form in following up to my own post, but I wanted to make sure to have everthing in one place for future reference. I found a copy of Arnaud Prudhomme's French-language monograph on the Alize for an outstandingly good price (<10 USD with shipping). Though I don't read French, I have enough schoolboy Latin to make sense of most of the text and Google Translate helps with the finer points. The photos are well worth the language barrier at that price.

His descriptions of the colors don't line up exactly with the ones posted above. There is certainly less detail in the Prudhomme book. He describes the early scheme as Grey-Blue over Cream (blanc-creme). The second scheme, from 1978 replaced the cream with pure white. The lo-viz scheme emerged from 1989 and has the upper color described as dark grey (not grey blue). Oddly the lower light gray is not mentioned at all.

Photos in the book suggest the upper surface grey-blue in the first two schemes may be the same as that worn on the early (white underside) Etendard. Some photos suggest fading (or repainting?) to a greyer tone later on.

Prudhomme states that the Indian Navy Alize's wore the same colors as the French aircraft in the earliest scheme.

The mystery (and ongoing contradictions) continue.

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Not bad form at all as the definitive answer isn't there.

For what it is worth,I am sticking to my memory and the photo I posted and going with Sky.

My reasoning remains the same.

Richard

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  • 1 year later...

Does anyone know colours for the seats and pads in an early Breguet Alize pre ALM/ALH - the following photo is from a superb FM Alize build on Master194.com and I am thinking the colours look a bit modern for the older scheme - I am leaning toward khaki/olive drab for seat padding and parachute pack for 1970 - 1980's- any thoughts?

251735ensembsieges1.jpg

CJP

Edited by CJP
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