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Iwata it is - but HP-CS or HP-CP


nheather
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You might have seen some of my posts trying to decide whether to go H&S or Iwata.

Although I like some of the features of the H&S (interchangeable cups, pincer nozzle cap) overall I've decided I like the feel of the Iwatas better.

I will mostly be doung 1:35 armour but would like to get into 1:72 and 1:48 aircraft as my skills improve. I will mostly use acrylics.

I had been focussing on the HP-CP (or C+ or C Plus as I also see it called), the 0.3mm nozzle and cup size seeming suitable for a general workhorse airbrush.

But since I have been seeing a lot of love for the HP-CS (Eclipse). The major difference seems to be the floating nozzle design - similar to that used by H&S. The CP has the adjustable trigger and quick-set handle.

The Eclipse is cheaper but ignore that - in the grand scheme of things I consider tham practically the same price.

The plan is this to be my go-to AB for 90% of the work. I have a cheap Chinese AB which I would keep for primer and heavier pigments. And in the future, once I have built up some skill and IF I felt the need I might get something finer for detail (like an HP-BP).

I'm sort of thinking HP-CS and then maybe add a HP-BP in the future. Or HP-CP and that might satisfy all my needs.

Any thoughts, what would you do (please ignore the price difference)?

Cheers,

Nigel

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The nozzle on the Eclipse has no o ring on it, you balance it on top of the the body and the air cap is screwed over it, that forces it down against the body of the brush.

Unlike the H&S nozzle that slides into the air cap and then screws onto the front of the brush until finger tight..

So it's more like some of the old badger designs than the simpler H&S method, but it is the only Iwata nozzle that needs no tools..

If you already have a cheaper brush for area work why go for another one?

The Eclipse isn't setup to be a fine detail brush, it's meant as a general purpose one.

When I started selling Iwata I used to get customers buy an Eclipse CS as a first brush, but then a year or so later went on to lay out more on. Usually a hiline BH for the fine work.

The cup on the C+ and CH is a large 9ml cup (as on the Eclispe CS that can get in the way when you are painting fine detail. It also has the larger 0.3mm nozzle set, so it was the 'B' brushes that customers bought for detail work.

Paul

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I have both the Eclipse and the HP-CH and I only use Eclipse for primers. The HP-CH is my main workhorse (I mostly build 1/72 aircraft) and I would not change that airbrush for any other, even my Custom Micron if I had to choose between them.

Duncan B

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Hi and good choice on the Iwata!

I have used a HP-CS for years and also use a Neo for varnishes. I've tried lots of airbrushes over the years and my weapon of choice is definitely the Iwata series. The Airbrush Company Ltd. have also been brilliant in dealing with enquiries and servicing. I'd highly recommend them. As I also would Little Cars. Paul is a very helpful and knowledgable chap and his range on his stand at Telford always gets my wallet out of my pocket.

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I have the Iwata HP-C Plus and I love it. I've not found the cup size to be a problem during detailed work. I have however experienced problems with some metallics.

For instance Vallejo Model Air aluminium, steel and gunmetal spray beautifully, but no amount of mixing or air pressure/thinning combinations work for me with copper or brass. I'm wondering if it maybe the nozzle size so may get another Iwata with a 0.5 nozzle, as I need one for larger area work anyway.

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Iwata HP C+ all the way! I've got two and I use them all the time and am going to get the 'B' at some point this year. They are well made, easy to clean and better than the H&S I have. I would recommend Badger Airbrush cleaner (aerosol) as this comes with along funnel thing which blasts away any paint in the nozzle.

Also Paul at Modelling Tools I would recommend if buying in the UK

Chris

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Thanks for all the great advice. Sounds like the HP-CP (or HP-CH) is the one to go for.

So in short term that would leave me with the HP-CP (0.3mm) as my main airbrush and the Chinese Cheapie (0.5mm ???) for primers and thicker pigments. I see the Chinese Cheapie as disposable because spares aren't available - if/when it were to get damaged I would probably look to replace it with a better 0.5mm (a Neo or maybe an HP-CR).

But the question for the future. If I did decide that I did need something finer (and I'm not sure I would) then as you say the HP-BP would seem to be the obvious choice.

But seriously, is there a place to have both a HP-BP and a HP-BP. They seem too close to each other - would they not be very similar.

If you had said HP-CS then I would have seen the HP-BP as a companion but not sure about a CP and a BP.

Anyone have a BP and a CP care to comment on the value of having both.

Cheers,

Nigel

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Far to many HPs , CPs, BPs, CRs, CH, going on here for me to keep track of. :confused:

Just how many different airbrushes do Iwata produce ?

Sounds like a question of to much variety.

I wouldnt worry about it too much until your Chinese cheapo packs up

Edited by Stuck
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I have the Iwata HP-C Plus and I love it. I've not found the cup size to be a problem during detailed work. I have however experienced problems with some metallics.

For instance Vallejo Model Air aluminium, steel and gunmetal spray beautifully, but no amount of mixing or air pressure/thinning combinations work for me with copper or brass. I'm wondering if it maybe the nozzle size so may get another Iwata with a 0.5 nozzle, as I need one for larger area work anyway.

I won't claim to solve your problem, but I was amazed to see how this Spaniard mixed his Vallejo metallic paint in a youtube video.

He simply poured thinner into the cup, and then added drops of Vallejo metallic paint, for what seemed to become a greatly diluted mix. I tried this myself with my Iwata HP-CS (Gunmetal Gray) and this works nicely. And, btw, I read in a pdf from Vallejo, that two drops of flow enhancer is recommended for every 10 drops of paint. Before that, I thought that the recommendation was only one drop of flow enhancer for every ten drops of paint, maybe something I read on the bottle.

Edited by Housesparrow
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Far to many HPs , CPs, BPs, CRs, CH, going on here for me to keep track of. :confused:

Just how many different airbrushes do Iwata produce ?

Sounds like a question of to much variety.

I wouldnt worry about it too much until your Chinese cheapo packs up

There is a lot more than that - typically four four every level of their range - and there are four levels exluding the custom micro - so over 16.

Seriously though, if I go for the HP-CP (0.3mm) that would do me for a while. But later on if I were to want to go finer would a HP-CP make sense. Realistically is there enough difference to have both?

Cheers,

Nigel

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I swear by my 7year old H&S evolution 2 in 1 as much as Iwata users swear by theirs, the pros and cons of both have already been discussed. Well it sounds as though you are sold on the Iwata. But in your case I should honestly reconsider purely because of the versatility of an H&S.. If you are worried about having to replace nozzles well you could buy quite a few for the price of another AB. The 3 common needle sizes ( I think there are more ) will cover every modeling need, and dont forget that theoretically you have the choice of 3 cup sizes because for very fine work you can take the cup off and that

gives virtual 100% vision.

Last year I treated myself to another airbrush purely for primeing a Paasche single action .siphon fed,its crude simple and I love it !!

Edited by Stuck
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I'm another fan of Iwata but can't afford any more than my current pair of a Revolution CR and Neo. My Revolution has a 0.5mm nozzle and it's my workhorse, the Neo is the reserve airbrush with a 0.35 nozzle, so in theory should be better for smaller areas. I can vouch for the Airbrush Company as a good supplier as a trade and normal customer.

thanks

Mike

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I swear by my 7year old H&S evolution 2 in 1 as much as Iwata users swear by theirs, the pros and cons of both have already been discussed. Well it sounds as though you are sold on the Iwata. But in your case I should honestly reconsider purely because of the versatility of an H&S.. If you are worried about having to replace nozzles well you could buy quite a few for the price of another AB. The 3 common needle sizes ( I think there are more ) will cover every modeling need, and dont forget that theoretically you have the choice of 3 cup sizes because for very fine work you can take the cup off and that

gives virtual 100% vision.

Last year I treated myself to another airbrush purely for primeing a Paasche single action .siphon fed,its crude simple and I love it !!

I still like the idea of the H&S.

I like the interchangeable cups - as you say I would get the mini-cup that just covers the threads to give me three options. I like the pincer crown cap to make the needle tip easy to clean. And I like the nozzle design to make that part easier to clean and easier to change needles.

But bits that make me nervous.

Never seen one let alone held one.

Negative posts - not as solidly built and clogs easily.

Not sure I like the idea of changing needles - would prefer two brushes.

Smaller cap opening on brush body making it harder to get in and clean.

Cheers,

Nigel

Edited by nheather
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The only problem that I have had with mine is a blocked nozzle, which has been caused by cross contamination, '( my fault ) usually caused by using lacquers after acrylics, because the brush has not been fully cleaned. I did have a lot of problems with the .15 nozzle because in my opinion these are designed for graphic artists and the like, so last year brought a .2 from Paul at Little cars,, and have hardly had a prob since, and that is all i use now, The brush fits my hand like a glove and I love the stream lined shape. Having spent a career using wood working tools I can tell when I have got quality in my hands these certainly have.

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Never seen one let alone held one. - If you really can't get to a show, and no one at local clubs can help, then I can lend you a demo brush.

Negative posts - not as solidly built and clogs easily. - Fine nozzles can clog on any brush, the H&S 0.15mm is finer than other brushes in this range, so needs to be understood to get the most out of them. Both brushes are built of good quality materials, they are just designed differently, some people prefer one, some the other.

Not sure I like the idea of changing needles - would prefer two brushes. - Depends how you work, if you are switching between two colours regularly, then I can see why may want that. Changing H&S nozzle sets takes about 20 seconds and you don't need any tools, unlike Iwata brushes.

Smaller cap opening on brush body making it harder to get in and clean. - Not sure what you mean by this. H&S produce their own cleaning brushes that fit both the body of the brush and the main part of the paint nozzle. Iwata (+ or hiline) nozzles are rarely removed as they are tiny and easy to cross thread or over tighten, so you rarely get to directly clean the brush interior.

Paul

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Smaller cap opening on brush body making it harder to get in and clean. - Not sure what you mean by this. H&S produce their own cleaning brushes that fit both the body of the brush and the main part of the paint nozzle. Iwata (+ or hiline) nozzles are rarely removed as they are tiny and easy to cross thread or over tighten, so you rarely get to directly clean the brush interior.

Paul

my mistake - simple but really important spelling mistake. I meant to write CUP not CAP. So I thinking about when you look down the cup to clean into the body. From videos I have seen and posts I have read the neck of the H&S cup is smaller so it is harder to get in and clean than the Iwata.

Cheers,

Nigel

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But the cup comes off and you can get right in their with cotton buds without a problem.

Also, I find the curved H&S cups tend to dampen paint sloshing in the cup.

Where the Iwata straight 9ml cup doesn't, I always have to put the lid on the 9ml one.

Paul

Edited by little-cars
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I never put the lid on mine and I haven't made a mess (other than on the models but that is due to lack of talent) yet but I don't fill the paint cup right up.

I bought the 0.5mm nozzle and needle to go with the standard 0.35mm that comes with the Eclipse CS but I rarely use it as the Primer happily sprays through the 0.35 nozzle.

Whatever you choose the main thing is to practice lots to get the best out of it. All of the airbrushes that have been suggested will have their good and bad points but will all do 90% of what you will want to do with them.

Duncan B

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