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JWM

Markings on Dornier Do 22 RYAF in Egipt?

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Hi

Looking around in net for photos of Dornier Do 22 I've met something surprising to me. The escaped to Egipt after fall of Yugoslavia Dorniers were used in RAF structures but they were having very unusual national insignia. Look at this photo:

Do-22%20x2_zpsbilzgm5b.jpgThe roundel below wings is not an English neither Yugoslavian one. If you compare to fin flash, which is suppoused to be Yugoslavian Blue/White/Red flag it looks like narrow red, then narrow white and huge blue circle inside. However, the Serbian company Lift Here reproduced decals as just outside red, inside blue (without white between):

http://lifthereserbia.50webs.com/744-LH.htm

This is second surprise (first was unusual insignie themselvs) - the Serbian company should be well informed on this topic, as I suppouse. Maybe better than Czech CMK specialists, who made typical British roundels B

http://www.cmkkits.com/res/data/022/002286.jpg?seek=2

Next is painting scheme. On this photo

Do-22%20x1_zpspdmw0jsx.jpgThe pattern is mach more "patchy" (and perhaps three colours) then on other photos (below), where it is definitly two-tone scheme, with large regular spots:

Do-22_afrika_03_zpsoakomdrb.jpgDo-22_zps4csgecti.jpg

I hope that among this forum some "RYAF in exile" experts appears - please clarify the details of paintings schemes (applied colours - was is Dark Slate Gray over original RYAF light gray?) and reveal some details about national insignia changes/mutations.

I am considering build of Xotic Do -22 in this unusual pattern...

Best regards

Jerzy-Wojtek

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Hello

The marking were changed over time: first, in August/September 1941 the white "Kosovo crosses" were removed, and some time later, the white rings were overpainted too.

This is from an article published in "Military Museum Herald" in Serbian, by Predrag Miladinovic and Aleksandar Kolo.

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Relja - many thanks! So it looks that both versions - with and without white ring are correct, just they follow one the another with time...

Best regards

Jerzy-Wojtek

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That's right.

The guys from LiftHere! are using more than solid references from recently published books and magazines.

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After a while (which was perhaps a bit too long) I've realized that something is not logical here. Let say the Do-22 were send to Yugoslavia in original RLM-02 overall paint. Then, still in Yugoslavia, at least some of them were painted in patchy scheme from top, still wearing three-colurs rudders, like on box of Aviation-Usk kit here:

http://www.internetmodeler.com/2000/august/first-looks/avusk_do22_6.jpg

But then, after escape to Egipt they've got large spots of dark colour (RN slate gray, probably?)but the "base" was still original RLM-02? I do not think so, bacause they should be re-painted to cover "patchy" RYAF scheme and to overpaint three-colours rudder as well as national insignias. So I think they must be totally re-painted in Egipt using British colours - perhaps RN light gray and slate gray? What are the arguments for lefting original RLM-02 in background, moreover - what was the source of RLM-02 for overpainting rudder available in Egipt in summer 1941?

Best regards

Jerzy-Wojtek

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Or possibly RAF Desert colours? That might fit the tones in the last photographs.


s. So I think they must be totally re-painted in Egipt using British colours - perhaps RN light gray and slate gray? What are the arguments for lefting original RLM-02 in background, moreover - what was the source of RLM-02 for overpainting rudder available in Egipt in summer 1941?

Best regards

Jerzy-Wojtek

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A couple of points. Firstly, I don't think that floatplanes would have been painted in the Desert colours, and secondly if they were being flown after being repainted in RAF colours, they'd have been carrying RAF markings as well. You could perhaps argue that the underwing roundel was intended to be RAF but was incorrectly painted, but if so why isn't there a proper finflash or a fuselage roundel? I think that these are original Yugoslav colours.

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I think that important is also a kind of tradition of presenting this colours - so I do not think on desert earth browns. People soon after war were giving simply testimony like "they were in some grey colour" or something like that. This should exclude too speculative interepretation. In painting scheme of Aviation USK kit (http://www.internetmodeler.com/2000/august/first-looks/avusk_do22_6.jpg) the Yugoslavian (early) one, with three colours rudder is in original Yugoslav colours, but the scheme for Egipt period (with small fin-flash, however in model with wrong national insignias) is presented in a bit different, darker light gray and green-grey uppersides with lighter undersurfaces. So perhaps they were some British colours not far in shades to original Yu ones? What it might be in Egipt, 1941? Some paints used for ships, perhaps?

Regards

J-W

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I have done this drawing only for this topic.

Hope it helps you.

do22-razvoj-oznaka-001.jpg

Cheers,

Voja

.

Edited by Voja

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Voja - many thanks! Hvala!

Beside time evolution your scheme shows, that the blue is much darker then in Yugoslav national insignia at homeland...

It is very interesting...

Regards

Jerzy-Wojtek

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Yes, the blue is darker because ground personal used same paint that was used for blue on RAF roundels.

When white crosses were removed, the remaining light blue-white-red roundels were then over painted with fresh paint.

Only paint they could find at that moment is the same paint used for RAF red-white-blue roundels.

In very short period all roundels had white rings.

Later the white rings on upper roundels were over painted in red and some weeks later the same was done with roundels on wings under surfaces.

Regards,

Voja

.

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Since the white crosses goes out the circles the outside had to be overpainted with fresh camo paint, isn't?

J-W

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All Do-22 were painted in standard grey colour for Naval Aviation.

On the night of the first day of the war (6th April) an order was issued.

According this order all airplanes of Naval Aviation should be camouflaged by painting their topside surfaces in patchy pattern using green paint.

It was done only on few aircrafts and probably only on upper surfaces of wings and floats. Not on fuselage.

When markings were changed in September by removing crosses, all Do-22 flew with their original Yugoslav camouflage.

In that period area outside circles were overpainted in some kind of light grey to match camo.

Circles were overpainted in dark blue-white-red but large Yugoslav light blue-white-red flag remained.

When Do-22 received new two tone camouflage Yugoslav flag was reduced to smaller with dark blue instead of light blue.

I don't know if Yugoslav grey colour remained on under surfaces when they received new upper surface two tone camouflage.

If so, the fresh overpainted areas around circles probably remained on under surfaces of wings.

Regards

Voja

.

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Many thanks Gents for your comments - so it looks that before april '41 it was not RLM-02 but Yugoslovian Navy light grey, similar to RLM-61 overall machine, then modification came in form of green patches and then was evacuation to Egipt and new painting...

Best regards

Jerzy-Wojtek

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I am starting to think on painting of my Do 22 and today when analysing photos of exilled to Egipt ones I realized that they wear British (or British-like) camo even in this sense, that odd numbers (313, 308) are mirror to even (308, 306)!

The scheme on wing is not reproduced in instruction to model in 1:48 http://aircraft-planet.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/scan00201.jpg (I do not know why?), but photos shows differently!

Compare leading edge of left wing of 309 below with right wing of 308 in next photo (the fuselage of 308 there is still in YU original paints, I think - photo is from web side "paluba") . The spinners are in two or one colour. Anybody knows something on this?

Do-22-x2_zpsffxlbpb2.jpgdo22-abukir%20308_zpsjrluthmp.jpg

Cheers

J-W

Edited by JWM

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