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Sea King HAR3 in to HAS1 ?


Meatbox8

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Hello folks

Helicopters are not my strong suit so wondered if someone could help. With the impending release of Airfix's new Sea King HAR3 I wondered what changes would be required to convert it to a RN HAS1. i.e. is it straightforward!

I would be interested in building an HU5 from 771 sqn as well. Any tips in this direction would also be gratefully received.

Thank for any help.

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The major differences are the lack of glazing in the rear of the cabin, no fuselage strakes and no barn door or filter in front of the engines, and the addition of a hole for the dipping sonar on the underside. Otherwise it's all down to aerial fit.

Similar for the HU.5 re: glazing, but you also have to think about the larger radome as well and the various 'wiggly amp' boxes.

I suspect Grizzly would be a good person to ask.

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Thanks all for your responses. It would seem there are quite a number of changes, some of them not so easy to circumvent. Certainly more than I anticipated. It looks like the Sea King wen through many detail changes during its career, a bit like the Wessex. I will, no doubt, be building both the HC4 and HAS3 in due course but I'm particularly fired up about the Fleet Air Arm at the moment so would like an HAS1, especially as I have Model Alliance Ark Royal Selection decals. What would you guys recommend as the best starting point for an AS1? Is it possible to cross kit any of the Airfix and Revell releases? I will look into getting the old Airfix kit to scrounge parts but from what I've seen of it the kit seems too rivety and archaic to build from the box.


P.s. Andy, thanks for the link. The GB thread looks like a good resource.

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Remove nose spotlight tounge aerial sensors fill holes . Remove under nose dropper box replace with flat buff rectangle area fill forward port (left) &both rear Windows don't use rear under radio box or towelrail aerial replace large aerial on tail rotor housing with small one & New one under central rear hull . Fill refuelling point by main door move to under door , add third central ground refuelling point on port side donot fit radio box by main door. Leave under blank off &drill hole in floor blank off area around hole you will need to make radar sonar operators stations use sonar from old Airfix kit built holding frame & cable drum. Remove airstrake use five blade tail rotor & use old metal blades from old Airfix kit & torpedoes & hardpoints if required regards Len

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IIRC the Heller release of the old HAR3 (in Belgian markings) also came with HAS1 decals. I'd still start with the new Airfix one (albeit the lack of rivets), and use the old one for things like the early rotor.

It's not a difficult conversion as it mainly involves removing parts/details

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Thanks for all the help chaps. Seems my best bet would be to get hold of the old Airfix kit and cannibalise it for major parts then add/subtract details. Now considering trying to get my hands on Revell's HAS6/AEW kit as well although all the ones I've seen on-line are pretty pricey.

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Oops, forgot the five-bladed tail rotor. :banghead:

The barn door was introduced to the Sea King following the Merc Enterprise rescue in January 1974. Five Culdrose Sea Kings -two from 706, one from 824 and two West German aircraft from the Foreign Training Unit- lifted seven crew from a Danish coaster which had capsized off Plymouth in hurricane force winds. The 824 aircraft and one of the FTU machines suffered severe losses of engine power and had to make precautionary landings in fields on the way back to Culdrose. They were found to have severe corrosion in the turbine blades due to salt ingestion in the rough weather. The barn door was developed as a crude but effective measure to stop it happening in future, and it was adopted by many Sea King operators worldwide, including some flying Sikorsky-built aircraft such as the US Navy. The HAS.1 fleet had mostly been upgraded to Mk.2 standard by then, so it would have been uncommon for a Mk.1 to have been fitted with a barn door.

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Hi meatbox I did thIs conversion too and bashed two kits together to make my 826NAS one for HMS Eagle.

I used the revell Seaking for the fuselage and the sponsons from airfix with revell undercarriage inside. Then I used the 5 bladed rear rotor from the airfix kit. I scratch built a sonobuoy that looked half descent in the end and have it dangling under the cab in my cabinet.

I didn't fit the anti icing screen on mine as photo refs showed it initially didn't have it. I think this question is resolved above.

One issue I did have was the decals. I had to buy 3 sheets of white decals numbers and titles from various manufacturers to do the markings I wanted. I did #143 from Eagles air wing.

I used xtacolour RAF Blue for the overall colour and painted two silver square patches around each engine exhaust as this showed on the pics I had. I'm quite pleased with the result although the paint doesn't lend itself to brushing.

But mostly I just left stuff off or removed a few little bits, oh almost forgot if you are going from an HAR then the two bubble Windows need to be filled and the port side windows need to be looked at too

Good luck, it's good fun retro making a kit sometimes

Edited by Gannetfan
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Oops, forgot the five-bladed tail rotor. :banghead:

The barn door was introduced to the Sea King following the Merc Enterprise rescue in January 1974. Five Culdrose Sea Kings -two from 706, one from 824 and two West German aircraft from the Foreign Training Unit- lifted seven crew from a Danish coaster which had capsized off Plymouth in hurricane force winds. The 824 aircraft and one of the FTU machines suffered severe losses of engine power and had to make precautionary landings in fields on the way back to Culdrose. They were found to have severe corrosion in the turbine blades due to salt ingestion in the rough weather. The barn door was developed as a crude but effective measure to stop it happening in future, and it was adopted by many Sea King operators worldwide, including some flying Sikorsky-built aircraft such as the US Navy. The HAS.1 fleet had mostly been upgraded to Mk.2 standard by then, so it would have been uncommon for a Mk.1 to have been fitted with a barn door.

A fascinating story and a great example of the Navy sorting out a serious problem with a simple and pragmatic approach. Also also an extra bit of gen to help with my build.

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Hi meatbox I did thIs conversion too and bashed two kits together to make my 826NAS one for HMS Eagle.

I used the revell Seaking for the fuselage and the sponsons from airfix with revell undercarriage inside. Then I used the 5 bladed rear rotor from the airfix kit. I scratch built a sonobuoy that looked half descent in the end and have it dangling under the cab in my cabinet.

I didn't fit the anti icing screen on mine as photo refs showed it initially didn't have it. I think this question is resolved above.

One issue I did have was the decals. I had to buy 3 sheets of white decals numbers and titles from various manufacturers to do the markings I wanted. I did #143 from Eagles air wing.

I used xtacolour RAF Blue for the overall colour and painted two silver square patches around each engine exhaust as this showed on the pics I had. I'm quite pleased with the result although the paint doesn't lend itself to brushing.

But mostly I just left stuff off or removed a few little bits, oh almost forgot if you are going from an HAR then the two bubble Windows need to be filled and the port side windows need to be looked at too

Good luck, it's good fun retro making a kit sometimes

Thanks for all that info. It sounds a lot more feasible than I was beginning to think. Do you know whether the Revell Mk41 is appropriate as a starting point? The HAS6/AEW boxing seems to be a rare as hens teeth. From what I can see of the sprue shots on the Mk41 it does seem to include a five blade tail rotor. Thankfully the one thing I'm sorted on is decals as I have the, now defunct, Model Alliance Ark Royal sheet. I think the early scheme in blue with hi-viz Type D roundels is particularly smart.

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Yes it's really very simple if you have the right parts to add. I used the revel HAS6 which I got lucky and found at a local model store a while ago. The real plus for me was the shape of the nose on it, but I feel the sponsons aren't right hence using the airfix model sponsons which I think are just right. I got my kit of this for 99p off eBay! :-D I've never looked at the various differences in models so I can't say if the MK41 is suitable but I imagine, given that you only need the really basic parts, it should be ok.

Yes Ark Royal decals seem easier to get but mine off Eagle, I think I got the squadron right above, was not available so I had to improvise!

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Shouldn't we be really pushing Airfix to do a Royal Navy ASW Sea King, with the ASW kit and option to do the HAS1 to HAS5 with possibly the AEW option too ?

With the door options on the new kit it would really need the interior kit for the Dipping Sonar, the sonar operator and the Radar operator, plus the likes of Sonar buoys etc. Would also need the external stores with the mounting kit for the Torpedo and Depth Charge options.

BTW Modeldecal set 49 has the markings for HAS1 and HAS2 Sea King's in the Pre-Falklands era. Combat Decals do decals for a HAS5 on Hermes on their Falklands set, but all the markings are in the wartime scheme

Perhaps one of the Aftermarket guys will look at a conversion set for the new HAR3 kit, with the ASW exterior and interior bits required along with a new set of decent decals for the versions. Could even be done as a number of sets, with HAS1/HAS2 and the dark schemes, HAS5/HAS6 in the Greys, AEW2/7 and maybe even the export ASW versions such as Australia, India, Pakistan and Egypt ?

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I think you are right there Geoff, but I have noticed a trend over the years for manufacturers to make fewer and fewer "multi versions" in one kit. Say once you may be offered the option of opening a blank window and you have extra glass for it on the sprue. Doesn't seem to happen so much now on newer models.

So yes I agree. One or two HAS Seakings with options for the variants would be nice. Course I'm alright jack as I'm sitting on the parts to make my ASAc cab, I have them spare from the revel kit I converted. I'm biding my time...... :-)

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As the 41 was technically a much earlier aircraft than the 3, I'd say you'll find most what you need in a Revell kit (of the 41, incl. the five blader tail). I'm not quite sure how far Revell went with their mix and match policy of sprues, but a boxing (also) featuring a non-KWS machine should contain most of what is needed for a 1 in any case. I never opened any of my seven or so HAS.6/AEW kits so can't say if it has the early dynamic parts also included (not rare as hens' teehth, at least not in my stash :coolio: ). As all the optional windows are flashed over in the Revell kit, you may be lucky that there are the pre-done openings you require (and not much to fill in the back). The Revell kit has what I consider quite exquisite rivet detail, and if there's a kit in need of some, it's the Sea King (and Puma, for that matter).

Edited by tempestfan
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Shouldn't we be really pushing Airfix to do a Royal Navy ASW Sea King, with the ASW kit and option to do the HAS1 to HAS5 with possibly the AEW option too ?

With the door options on the new kit it would really need the interior kit for the Dipping Sonar, the sonar operator and the Radar operator, plus the likes of Sonar buoys etc. Would also need the external stores with the mounting kit for the Torpedo and Depth Charge options.

BTW Modeldecal set 49 has the markings for HAS1 and HAS2 Sea King's in the Pre-Falklands era. Combat Decals do decals for a HAS5 on Hermes on their Falklands set, but all the markings are in the wartime scheme

Perhaps one of the Aftermarket guys will look at a conversion set for the new HAR3 kit, with the ASW exterior and interior bits required along with a new set of decent decals for the versions. Could even be done as a number of sets, with HAS1/HAS2 and the dark schemes, HAS5/HAS6 in the Greys, AEW2/7 and maybe even the export ASW versions such as Australia, India, Pakistan and Egypt ?

It's a tough one for the aftermarket guys with Airfix's recent penchant for releasing different versions of aircraft with additional parts. You never know what they are going to come up with next. Not that I'm complaining mind. i think it's a brilliant departure for them and I suppose it maximises profits form the initial mould investment.

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The rivet detail on the Revell Sea King isn't authentic, as it's all indented and the real thing has raised details. :-)

The Revell kit needs a few bits and bobs removed to backdate it to an early HAS1 (I remember Drewe Manton did the conversion back in the day).

http://www.hkngallery.org.uk/hkngallery.nsf/3891afd2ab2c61188025716a0079ceb9/3428b1eca822938580256dac007013e2?OpenDocument

It has the late 90s* ECM parts, and the later composite blades. There is also the issue with the sponsons - I hadn't realised quite how out of scale they were until I saw them alongside the new Airfix ones. So take blades and sponsons from the old Airfix kit of you have one

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The rivet detail on the Revell Sea King isn't authentic, as it's all indented and the real thing has raised details. :-)

Dave,

The Revell kit very definitely has raised rivet detail as does the Fujimi kit. The Cyberhobby kit however, does have indented rivet detail.

Mark.

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The rivet detail on the Revell Sea King isn't authentic, as it's all indented and the real thing has raised details. :-)

The Revell kit needs a few bits and bobs removed to backdate it to an early HAS1 (I remember Drewe Manton did the conversion back in the day).

http://www.hkngallery.org.uk/hkngallery.nsf/3891afd2ab2c61188025716a0079ceb9/3428b1eca822938580256dac007013e2?OpenDocument

It has the late 90s* ECM parts, and the later composite blades. There is also the issue with the sponsons - I hadn't realised quite how out of scale they were until I saw them alongside the new Airfix ones. So take blades and sponsons from the old Airfix kit of you have one

Thanks. Yes, that's what I'm thinking (re - sponsons and blades). If I can source both kits I should be able to make an HAS1, even with my limited skills.

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