JohnT Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Can anyone advise on the upper camouflage paint scheme for 112 Sqn Mustangs in Italy 1944? I was happy to follow the grey/green scheme as per the profiles in Osprey Aircraft of the Aces 93 RAF Mustang and Thunderbolt Aces book as that seemed logical. Chris Davey did the illustrations. While doing some research into the Trumpy 1/32 Mustang III for what corrections might be required I came across a build of one by Tony O'Toole using a Google search. He posted on LSP and has his in dark earth/green being a 249 Sqn machine that the Osprey book has a profile of in the grey/green. Tony mentions that a photo was use as reference (always a good idea) and that a Squadron veteran recalled clearly that aircraft were repainted brown and green with quite a few RAF, RAAF and SAAF units in Italy doing this due to local conditions, especially if engaged in tac recce or close support. Anyone heard of this before and know if 112 sharkmouth Sqn followed suit? I found black and white photos but tbh they really didn't persuade me either way. Any comments most appreciated. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Puff Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 A can of worms you have opened here, Grasshopper ... Neither of the two RAAF units that operated Mustangs in the MTO (3 Sqn and 450 Sqn) had aircraft in DE/DG camouflage. 3RAAF began receiving Mustangs in October 1944 to replace its P-40s; 450RAAF did not start re-equipping until 1945 and had not completed the exercise by war's end. By then the Air Ministry's Directorate of Technical Developments Technical Circular No 360 and related Air Ministry Orders required single-engined fighters to be finished in Dark Green/Ocean Grey/Medium Sea Grey (or U.S. equivalents), and both units' aircraft were finished in either these colours or natural metal. As the RAAF units drew their aircraft from RAF stocks, it seems reasonable to assume that aircraft with RAF units in the MTO were finished in the same way. The situation is complicated by the fact that aircraft could have been finished in one of three patterns - the scheme prescribed in the Technical Order (the "TO" scheme"), a scheme applied to aircraft delivered to the UK in natural metal finish and repainted at MUs or ADs before being delivered to units ( the "Loop" scheme), or a scheme applied to only a handful (about 20) aircraft in the MTO by 159MU in Alexandria (the "Firewall" scheme). All three patterns are similar but distinctly different. As is so often the case, the safest way to proceed is to find a picture of the aircraft you want to model and be guided by that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry McGrady Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) Can anyone advise on the upper camouflage paint scheme for 112 Sqn Mustangs in Italy 1944? I was happy to follow the grey/green scheme as per the profiles in Osprey Aircraft of the Aces 93 RAF Mustang and Thunderbolt Aces book as that seemed logical. Chris Davey did the illustrations. While doing some research into the Trumpy 1/32 Mustang III for what corrections might be required I came across a build of one by Tony O'Toole using a Google search. He posted on LSP and has his in dark earth/green being a 249 Sqn machine that the Osprey book has a profile of in the grey/green. Tony mentions that a photo was use as reference (always a good idea) and that a Squadron veteran recalled clearly that aircraft were repainted brown and green with quite a few RAF, RAAF and SAAF units in Italy doing this due to local conditions, especially if engaged in tac recce or close support. Anyone heard of this before and know if 112 sharkmouth Sqn followed suit? I found black and white photos but tbh they really didn't persuade me either way. Any comments most appreciated. John From Info I've received over the past 40 odd years of researching 112 Sq Aircraft , the Mustangs on 112 were either Green/ Grey uppers with MSG ( or painted in the US in DFS Equivalent .) or in "Silver " Some A/c were Painted at 159 MU Brindisi with the " Firewall " scheme and had the Nile Crocodile "Zap " painted on the fin . As for 249 Green Brown Mustangs I've yet to see any logic for this . Why would one squadron have a different scheme to the rest ? Remember too that 249 converted from Spitfires , to Mustangs back to Spitfires and at War's end back to Mustangs again Spitfires were originally in Desert Scheme . then in some cases had the Midstone areas repainted with Dark Green This could well be where the confusion may have arisen In fact A Pilot of 249 in the Book "From Fiji to the Balkans" describes the Mustang he bailed out of after being hit by flak as " My Beautiful Silver Mustang" , apparently it had been on the squadron only 6 weeks Then there was HK944 an A36 which was left over from 1437 Strategic Recce Flight was used to convert Pilots from Kittyhawks to Mustangs The A/C was basically OD/NG with RAF green over painting along the fuselage sides , giving it a Green/ Brown appearance The Green /Brown painted A/C refers to those Airframes origionally painted in the Desert Scheme and had their Mid Stone ares repainted Green . eg Kittyhawks andSpitfires Terry McGrady Edited February 7, 2016 by Terry McGrady 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Hello, this may help in relation to TO, loop and firewall scheme http://www.3squadron.org.au/subpages/Mustangs/3%20Sqn%20P-51K%20P1.htm Enjoy Bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 .then in some cases had the Midstone areas repainted with Dark Earth Ahem, that'd be Midstone areas painted with Dark GREEN wouldn't it Terry?, otherwise you'd end up with an all Dark Earth top colour. Steve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry McGrady Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Ahem, that'd be Midstone areas painted with Dark GREEN wouldn't it Terry?, otherwise you'd end up with an all Dark Earth top colour. Steve. I just thought I'd invent a new scheme lol lol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Here's my build of 112 Sqdn firewall Mustang.http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234966387-airfix-mustang-iv-firewall/page-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalkeEins Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 ..and mine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 Guys Thanks for all the useful information and advice. I think I will go for grey rather than brown as on balance it does seem the most likely. I will also try and use US colors (thought I'd spell the colonial way!) approximating to the standard UK spec given the initial paint job was done in the USA rather than RAF colours Once again many thanks all I don't usually stick my efforts on here but will do with this one once finished. Just waiting on replacement cockpit in the post as read the Trumpeter cockpit does not resemble any one fitted to any mark of the Mustang so taking that as gospel. Dangerous, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomBigStu Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) Be aware though the us equalivalents for the RAF colours are not always the same colours used on RAF aircraft painted in the us....olive drab was often used instead of dark green EDIT: is indeed ANA613 Olive Drab and 603 Sea Grey used on the uppers Edited February 7, 2016 by PhantomBigStu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 Be aware though the us equalivalents for the RAF colours are not always the same colours used on RAF aircraft painted in the us....olive drab was often used instead of dark greenThanks and notedSomething else to watch out for It's never simple is it? And I need to adjust for effects of scale, sun, weather and hard wear too - all in a days modelling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomBigStu Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 No probs see my edit for the upper colours, lower colour is ANA602 light grey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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