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If you were to buy an H&S Infinity 2in1 .......


nheather
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..... would you go for the

0.15mm and 0.4mm version

or the

0.2mm and 0.4 mm version?

Haven't really decided whether to go Iwata HP-C+ or H&S Infinity but have a slight leaning towards the latter. But if I were to go for the H&S I'm not sure what needle size to go for.

Any views?

Cheers,

Nigel

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0.2 / 0.4 without a doubt.

The 0.2mm nozzle set virtually offers the same detail performance as the 0.15mm set, but it's far more robust & far less fussy over what's put through it - it's a long overdue addition to the H&S line up.

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Thanks for the advice - was thinking that the 0.15mm was too fine and may even get clogged with acrylics.

Looking at the spares there isn't that much difference anyway. The 0.15mm uses the same air cap, it is just the nozzle and needle that are different - £22 if I ever felt the need.

What about the FPC valve - do you reckon it is worth it - or just use a quick release with air control.

Cheers,

Nigel

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Thanks for the advice - was thinking that the 0.15mm was too fine and may even get clogged with acrylics.

Looking at the spares there isn't that much difference anyway. The 0.15mm uses the same air cap, it is just the nozzle and needle that are different - £22 if I ever felt the need.

What about the FPC valve - do you reckon it is worth it - or just use a quick release with air control.

The 0.15mm set up will work fine with most popular modelling acrylics, but they need well thinned & coverage with the 0.15mm really relegates it to fine / very fine work & nothing else...

The FPC valve is a nice addition, but as you suspect has a pretty similar result to a flow control Q/C. To be honest, if your regulator is nearby & offers reasonable control neither the FPC or Q/C offer a dramatic improvement.

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I'd agree with all of those, the 0.15 can be good for extreme detail, sub 1mm, but the 0.2mm is the best starting point for most people. Adding the 0.15mm needle and nozzle is only £21 if you find you need to paint finer.

The fPc valve is a marmite item, some people love it some hate it. If you do think you need one I would personally plump for the quick disconnect with the air regulator on it, especially if you have a compressor with an air tank as it seals the air supply when the brush is disconnected....and its cheaper.

To go for an Iwata or a H&S is a difficult decision. One thing to look at is flexibility in configuration and price of spares.

The H&S can go from a 0.5ml to a 100ml paint cup and 0.15mm to 0.6mm nozzle size.

The C+ has a fixed 9ml paint cup and a 0.2 or 0.3mm nozzle. Spare nozzles are £32 each, needles £11. O rings & springs and other small items about £5 each.

Spares for the infinity, £12 or £13 for a nozzle, £8 for a needle, o rings £9.50 for the whole 2in1 brush (£3 to £5 for three of the same o ring).

Looking at like for like C+ compared with an Infinity crplus solo the prices are about the same (£162 for the C+ and £165 for the Infinity Solo).

Both are good airbrushes, but having used and supported both my experience is that H&S are more flexible in configuration longer term, cheaper & simpler to maintain.

Paul

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I bought the H&S infinity 2in1 with the.15 tip and then upgraded to a .20 set up as I couldn't quite get on with the .15 tip so I would advise ta king the .20 option. Other than this I am really pleased with the airbrush, it's a great piece of kit and I'm sure that you won't be disappointed.

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The 0.15 is too fine for most acrylic paints due to the pigment grind being too coarse for it. A 0.2 will become your staple, with seldom a needle for the 0.4 unless you do big stuff. I love my Infinities, although the chrome finish in the cups doesn't last too well, especially if you're dumb enough to leave ammonia in it overnight like I did :doh:

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I love my Infinities, although the chrome finish in the cups doesn't last too well, especially if you're dumb enough to leave ammonia in it overnight like I did :doh:

Yeah - or cellulose thinners too (which required a new set of O rings from little cars at Telford one year....)

Philip

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Thanks for the heads up on cup and o-ring wear. I guess that is pretty much true of most airbrushes.

Although I must admit had I not done the research and relied only on the H&S product description I would have been left thinking that the cup was super tough chromium plated and the seals were invincible ptfe.

Cheers,

Nigel

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The seals inside the brush, where the paint flows, are PTFE. Air-side seals and exterior seals are rubber. If you're regularly spraying lacquer thinner - and especially if you're regularly cleaning with it - the rubber seals can break down if you are sloppy, but it's not a major issue, and easy to replace (with PTFE parts) if they do eventually crack.

As for needle size... depends what you're using, or want to use it for. If you're using inks, definitely .15. If you're using lacquers or enamels, you would probably get use out of the .15. If you're using acrylics, as mentioned, you'll need .2.

Although personally, I'd go with the Evolution 2 in 1, not the Infinity. I *have* an Infinity, but I don't think it really adds any appreciable benefit over the Evolution for modelling purposes. It looks impressive, sure, but for actually spraying model paint, I don't think it's any better than the Evolution. If you *need* to have the adjustable needle stop, go for the Evolution Silverline (although I never use the stop on mine). With the money you save, you can buy some spare needles, or replacement PTFE seals, or a new kit.

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Thanks for the heads up on cup and o-ring wear. I guess that is pretty much true of most airbrushes.

Although I must admit had I not done the research and relied only on the H&S product description I would have been left thinking that the cup was super tough chromium plated and the seals were invincible ptfe.

Cheers,

Nigel

Don't forget there are two levels of finish on H&S brushes, the standard ones are nickle plated, the CR plus are chrome plated and have extra internal coatings.

Seals are ptfe where they need to be, the air cap O ring is Vitron Rubber, And the one inside the air valve and preset handle of the Infinty are also rubber.

Paul

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Although personally, I'd go with the Evolution 2 in 1, not the Infinity. I *have* an Infinity, but I don't think it really adds any appreciable benefit over the Evolution for modelling purposes. It looks impressive, sure, but for actually spraying model paint, I don't think it's any better than the Evolution. If you *need* to have the adjustable needle stop, go for the Evolution Silverline (although I never use the stop on mine). With the money you save, you can buy some spare needles, or replacement PTFE seals, or a new kit.

I was thinking two benefits to the cut-out handle. Firstly you can set the limit, so if you wanted to spray a number of lines (such as camoflage squiggles - technical term) all the same that would see useful - I agree the silverline would do that.

Secondly, it allows the needle to be pulled back to aid cleaning without removing the handle - I don't think the silverline would do that.

Other things about the silverline - it doesn't have the easy access need cap to make cleaning easier and it doesn't have CRPlus.

Add the end caps to the Silverline and it is practically the same price as the infinity - and not quite as good in my opinion.

Cheers,

Nigel

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Firstly you can set the limit, so if you wanted to spray a number of lines (such as camoflage squiggles - technical term) all the same that would see useful - I agree the silverline would do that.

Secondly, it allows the needle to be pulled back to aid cleaning without removing the handle - I don't think the silverline would do that.

Thirdly, you get trigger tension adjustment with the Infinity which isn't available on any Evolution model.......

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Well #1 is a wash, since the silverline has it as well. It doesn't have numbers, but you're really not going to use the numbers anyway. That said, you're probably not going to use the needle stop at all, in all honesty. Maybe if you do a lot of squiggle or mottle camo, but I suspect most modellers using the brush just adjust the trigger on the fly.

#2, not really. I mean, you *could* pull it out the front of the body without removing the handle, I guess, but you're still going to have to remove the handle to reassemble the brush - either to feed it in from the back, or to properly seat it in the nozzle before tightening the nut. Theoretically, I suppose you COULD just press it in place by screwing on the nozzle, but that's a pretty terrible idea that will damage the nozzle, or needle, pretty quickly... and probably won't seat the needle properly anyway. For the sake of avoiding less than a second to unscrew a handle?

Easy access cap. If you're spraying acrylics, that's probably a benefit. If you typically get a lot of tip-dry, then yeah, it'll help. If you don't... it's kind of superfluous. It also leaves your needle exposed and more prone to damage, if you're a little clumsy. Plus, I'd argue that if you're getting that much tip dry, the issue is with your paint (add retarder), not the nozzle.

CR Plus. Probably a benefit. At the very least, it'll look shiny longer. Doesn't really impact performance, though. And there's an evolution CRPlus (with the easy access cap), though I don't know how prices compare.

#3. Again, ...i guess? I've played around with the trigger tension, but it's not really a big deal. Maybe if you've got arthritis or are prone to joint pain, but... honestly... is this something you're going to frequently use? Is it something you NEED to be able to adjust on the fly? I'm fairly certain that you can adjust the needle sleeve on the Evolution anyway - it's a removable, unscrewable part with a tensioning spring inside, it just doesn't need a little tool like the Infinity does.

Basically, what it boils down to is, many of the big selling points of the Infinity are geared more to the professional user. And by 'professional', I don't mean someone who's really good at airbrushing or does nice stuff, I mean someone who uses it for hours a day, every day, and who depends on maximum productivity to make money. People who paint T-shirts for a living, or airbrush paintings. If you're spraying for 8 - 10 hours, every single day, then yeah, the needle tension is probably important. If you're painting for an hour or two, total, every week? Really not so much. If your income depends on how many items you can paint in a day, then saving a second or two by not having to unscrew a handle to unlock a nut is probably worth while. If you're relaxing by enjoying your hobby, then a couple of seconds probably aren't that big of a deal.

Like I said, I own an Infinity. I use an Infinity. And if I were to buy another airbrush tomorrow, I'd buy an Evolution. The Infinity certainly does have benefits... but for a scale modelling, hobbyist user, those benefits are largely moot.

(IMO)

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Well #1 is a wash, since the silverline has it as well. It doesn't have numbers, but you're really not going to use the numbers anyway. That said, you're probably not going to use the needle stop at all, in all honesty. Maybe if you do a lot of squiggle or mottle camo, but I suspect most modellers using the brush just adjust the trigger on the fly.

#2, not really. I mean, you *could* pull it out the front of the body without removing the handle, I guess, but you're still going to have to remove the handle to reassemble the brush - either to feed it in from the back, or to properly seat it in the nozzle before tightening the nut. Theoretically, I suppose you COULD just press it in place by screwing on the nozzle, but that's a pretty terrible idea that will damage the nozzle, or needle, pretty quickly... and probably won't seat the needle properly anyway. For the sake of avoiding less than a second to unscrew a handle?

Easy access cap. If you're spraying acrylics, that's probably a benefit. If you typically get a lot of tip-dry, then yeah, it'll help. If you don't... it's kind of superfluous. It also leaves your needle exposed and more prone to damage, if you're a little clumsy. Plus, I'd argue that if you're getting that much tip dry, the issue is with your paint (add retarder), not the nozzle.

CR Plus. Probably a benefit. At the very least, it'll look shiny longer. Doesn't really impact performance, though. And there's an evolution CRPlus (with the easy access cap), though I don't know how prices compare.

#3. Again, ...i guess? I've played around with the trigger tension, but it's not really a big deal. Maybe if you've got arthritis or are prone to joint pain, but... honestly... is this something you're going to frequently use? Is it something you NEED to be able to adjust on the fly? I'm fairly certain that you can adjust the needle sleeve on the Evolution anyway - it's a removable, unscrewable part with a tensioning spring inside, it just doesn't need a little tool like the Infinity does.

Basically, what it boils down to is, many of the big selling points of the Infinity are geared more to the professional user. And by 'professional', I don't mean someone who's really good at airbrushing or does nice stuff, I mean someone who uses it for hours a day, every day, and who depends on maximum productivity to make money. People who paint T-shirts for a living, or airbrush paintings. If you're spraying for 8 - 10 hours, every single day, then yeah, the needle tension is probably important. If you're painting for an hour or two, total, every week? Really not so much. If your income depends on how many items you can paint in a day, then saving a second or two by not having to unscrew a handle to unlock a nut is probably worth while. If you're relaxing by enjoying your hobby, then a couple of seconds probably aren't that big of a deal.

Like I said, I own an Infinity. I use an Infinity. And if I were to buy another airbrush tomorrow, I'd buy an Evolution. The Infinity certainly does have benefits... but for a scale modelling, hobbyist user, those benefits are largely moot.

(IMO)

Thanks for the comments. Certainly well made and something to think about.

Cheers,

Nigel

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Note there are two types of preset handles on H&S brushes.

The Evo silverline has the standard screw in and out version, the Infinity crplus version you can switch the preset function on and off and keep the setting.

The cutaway handle on the infinity is so you get get to the trigger adjustment, although you can also pull the needle back.

The trigger tension adjustment can be a bit of a distraction while you are getting the brush set up.

Best to have a quick play, set it and then ignore it while you get used to the rest of the brush.

Someone stated that adding the infinity pincer air caps to the Evolution makes it nearly the same price as the Infinity.

This is not the case, they are only about £18 each.

I usually suggest to people that they try the Evolution as delivered. Most people find that they only need the finer pincer nozzle cap that fits both the 0.15 and 0.2mm needle/nozzle. If you buy the nozzle cap in a set with a needle and nozzle you effectively save a few pounds on the individual price and have a spare needle and nozzle available if & when you need them.

Paul

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I don't use my needle stop very often (the little button on the back of the handle), but when I do it's very handy, so if the price isn't an issue I'd go for it :) I also set my trigger tension screw to maximum whenever I get an airbrush, so having access to that isn't much of a benefit to me, and it's the same with being able to undo the needle screw. I usually remove the back of my Infinity whenever I clean it, but I suppose it looks nice & technical :)

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The trigger tension adjustment can be a bit of a distraction while you are getting the brush set up.

Best to have a quick play, set it and then ignore it while you get used to the rest of the brush.

Paul

It was me. It was based on prices that I saw on another retailer

Silverline 2in1 = £150

Infinity 2in1 CrPlus = £200

Standard Pincer Cap = £19

CrPlus Pincer Cap = £21

Okay so although you get the CrPlus Pincer Caps with the Infinity I guess you would only fit the standard to the Silverline because the rest of it isn't CrPlus.

You need two pincer caps, 0.2mm and 0.4mm = £38

Silverline + Pincer Caps = £188, so £12 cheaper than the Infinity which is why I said almost as much.

Okay, I appreciate that you are saying that you might not need the pincer cap for the 0.4mm but you get it with the Infinity and I was just trying to do a similar comparison.

Cheers,

Nigel

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