NATO RF/F-84F Early camouflage colours

[Wez]

Hi all,

I've recently acquired the rather nice TanModel 1/48th RF-84F Thunderflash which includes a Dutch jet in the grey/green/PRU blue scheme.

I've always liked that scheme and my kit will be finished in it, the problem is the colours called up in the TanModel instructions don't chime with what I thought they were.

I've always thought the scheme was the NATO equivalents of RAF Dark Green/Dark Sea Grey (DSG) and PRU Blue, TanModel suggest the grey to be Extra Dark Sea Grey (ESDG).

My question is which is correct, DSG or EDSG? Were the Dutch RF/F-84F's ESDG, have I got it wrong in my muddled head or what?

Your wisdom is appreciated.

TIA

Wez

[Giorgio N]

The NATO scheme did use the equivalent of Dark Sea Grey, however Dutch aircrafts used a darker grey, that could easily be the equivalent of Extra Dark Sea Grey. Pictures of these aircrafts show quite a low contrast, very different from for example the contemporary German F-84s and F-86s

[scotthldr]

I have it as RAL 7012 and RAL 6014 which was meant to be standard across all NATO forces in Europe.

Edited January 26, 2016 by scotthldr

[KoenL]

Several Dutch sources I've checked mention EDSG, DG with a PRU blue underside. This one also has a version written in English: http://kw.jonkerweb.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=577:republic-rf-84f-thunderflash-uk&catid=95〈=en&Itemid=557&showall=&limitstart=4

Also found http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2005/06/stuff_eng_dutch_af_colours_01.htm which says 'Contrary to Nato regulations, Extra Dark Sea Grey was used instead of Dark Sea Grey during the late 1950s.'.

Edited January 26, 2016 by KoenL

[Julien]

I have it as RAL 7012 and RAL 6014 which was meant to be standard across all NATO forces in Europe.

The RAL colours even though they were supposed to be NATO colours did look different.

As KoenL rightly says the Dutch did use the darker colour.

Not many Dutch ones on there but http://www.thunderstreaks.com/is worth a look.

[Wez]

I can answer my own question now I'm home and rummaged through my references one of which is the Dutch Profile of the RF/F-84F in Dutch service, they used DG/EDSG/PRU Blue.

So whilst the standard NATO scheme was DG/DSG/PRU Blue the Dutch used EDSG in-lieu of the DSG.

I prefer the lighter scheme so its a Belgian, Danish or Norwegian aircraft for me.

Thanks all for your help.

Wez

Edited January 26, 2016 by Wez

[Hook]

Greuters "De Geschiedenis van Camouflage En Kentekens Op Vliegtuigen Van de Nederlandse Strijdkrachten" ("History of Camouflage And Markings On Airplanes of Dutch Armed Forces",1997, ISBN 10: 9073304571 ⁄ ISBN 13: 9789073304574), *the* standard work on the subject, stipulates Extra Dark Sea Grey / Sikkens 2090 for the F- / RF-84F as well (p. 68 / 69).

HTH,

Andre

[Vingtor]

In the late 1950s the Norwegian RF-84Fs were camouflaged according to the NATO Standardization Agreement No. 3083 "Colouring and markings of aircraft for Tactical Reconnaissance". The colours were specified to be NATO Dark Green and NATO Dark Grey on the upper surfaces and NATO PRU Blue on lower surfaces. The paint work was done by Avio-Diepen at Ypenburg, with paint manufactured by Sikkens. The actual paint numbers were Sikkens 2662 (NATO Dark Green), Sikkens 2340 NATO Dark Grey) and Sikkens 2602 (NATO PRU Blue). I would thus assume that the same colours were used on Dutch aircraft. Taking my FS fan to Gardermoen where an RNoAF Thunderflash is displayed (still in its original upper surface colours – the lower surfaces were painted aluminium in the early 1960) reveals that the colours matches FS24079 and FS26118. Other sources (assumedly an RF-84F at the Sola museum) describe the lower surfaces as FS25109.

Note that although the RAF/MAP and the NATO colours had same/similar names, the hues were not the equal. When it comes to NATO Dark Grey, this is is closer to RAF/MAP Extra Dark Sea Grey than to Dark Sea Grey (but still different).

Nils

[KoenL]

I can answer my own question now I'm home and rummaged through my references one of which is the Dutch Profile of the RF/F-84F in Dutch service, they used DG/EDSG/PRU Blue.

So whilst the standard NATO scheme was DG/DSG/PRU Blue the Dutch used EDSG in-lieu of the DSG.

I prefer the lighter scheme so its a Belgian, Danish or Norwegian aircraft for me.

Thanks all for your help.

Wez

Forgot to add, the decal options in the Tan kit were actually put together by the guy that runs Dutch Decal/Dutch Profile.

Edited January 26, 2016 by KoenL

[Wez]

Forgot to add, the decal options in the Tan kit were actually put together by the guy that runs Dutch Decal/Dutch Profile.

Well he'd know then!

It is a mighty impressive decal sheet in the kit too! However, being contrary in nature I always prefer to make something other than one of the kit options, so....