Jump to content
This site uses cookies! Learn More

This site uses cookies!

You can find a list of those cookies here: mysite.com/cookies

By continuing to use this site, you agree to allow us to store cookies on your computer. :)

Truro Model Builder

CAA airshow safety review update

Recommended Posts

I see the BBC never miss an opportunity to show pictures of the deceased, and give all their details.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The issue about the Hunter is that it may now be seen -whatever the outcome of the AAIB- as a 'tainted' brand in the public consciousness, at least as far as the CAA is concerned, and in its need to be seen to be doing something the organisation may well decide that the type should be permanently grounded. Of course, the new rules regarding swept wing jets in private hands and the decision by Martin-Baker to cease support for many of their older bang seats may well make such a decision superfluous.

The Hunter is a much loved and fondly remembered aircraft with a long and proud history behind it, and that it may be remembered in many eyes only for what happened at Shoreham would be very sad indeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are they blaming the Hunter?

The grounding has to be seen as part of a careful process of making sure that the chances of the accident occurring again are reduced as far as possible. And much as I love the Hunter (as the number of Airfix, Academy, Italeri, Revell and Matchbox F6s, FGA9s & T7s in my stash perhaps demonstrates), I'd rather wait for the AAIB to provide sufficient information to the CAA to demonstrate that the grounding order can be lifted based on a full investigation.

The fact that Andy Hill may have made an error in a previous display (a one-off prior to/including Shoreham? Worrying signs that a trend was developing?) which may or may not have any bearing whatsoever to the accident. As noted about half-way down the page here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-35473857- the occurrence at Southport can't necessarily be seen as the trend that some media reports and associated comments appear to think it is. It's hardly a smoking gun.

I'll be honest. I've always suspected that the tragedy at Shoreham will prove to be the result of pilot error, but I don't know. Until the AAIB provide the definitive or near-as-damn-it definitive answer, I'll hold off from saying that Mr Hill was at fault or that the Hunter (as a type, vice the individual airframe) wasn't.

I was at the Southport show and saw the Provost it was VERY bad piloting skills in my opinion. I was stood a way back accros the greens behind the holiday inn and he went out of view behind the hotel for a second it was WAY too low. I said to the Mrs he will be called off for that and many watched thinking the worst was about to happen. Sure enough he was called off.

Im not a pilot but I have had flying lessons and watched many displays over the years and many hunter displays and the one at shoreham looked bad from the start the take off looked very tame and slow to me.

Hope the right answers are found for everyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct, a/c transited from North Weald, coasted out somewhere near Brighton and flew over water to Shoreham.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know where it took off from I just saw some footage and it looked to me very sluggish. Compared to every other take off ive seen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When it took off from North Weald it had a full fuel load as it had a few displays to do that day so a slightly longer take off run would be required but nothing out the ordinary.

Are you sure it's North Weald and is the same jet same day ?

Guy

Edited by F4u

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if this is directly related to the conversation above but I've just received an email about the 'American Airshow' at Duxford in May and it appears that there is now a Parking Fee of £5.......

Hutch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was at Shoreham on that fateful day and the Hunter did not fly over the crowd. It flew along the runway line fron the sea before pulling up into a climb. So the media have leapt on to the comment about the Southport show and in essence blamed the pilot for the accident. Let's await the AAIB report and see what that says!

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not see anything wrong in manoeuvres in the vertical on the flight line as anyone of a certain age may remember how long it took to get a Starfighter back to the crowd line after a pass. Also if you are going for straight and level the aircraft surely has to travel over surrounding areas to get back to the crowd line? I am no pilot but I have done a good few airshows over the years and the only fatal incident I witnessed was the Vampire at Biggin Hill, which although in formation with the Sea Vixen came down in the circuit during a straight and level display.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The other week the "biased Broadcasting" media had a news item saying that there will be much fewer air shows because of the CAA new regs and charges. Sounded a bit doom and gloom for the forthcoming season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear the CAA dose not answer to the public nor the government so who do they answer to ??

Guy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've cut and paste this.Its to the point

The CAA directly or indirectly regulates all aspects of aviation in the UK. In some aspects of aviation it is the primary regulator, in other areas, where the responsibility for regulation has passed to the European Aviation Safety Agency(EASA), the CAA acts as EASA's local office, implementing the regulations. Representatives from the CAA sit on EASA's advisory bodies, taking part in the Europe-wide regulation process.

The UK Government requires that the CAA’s costs are met entirely from its charges on those whom it regulates. Unlike many other countries, there is no direct Government funding of the CAA’s work. It is classed as a public corporation, established by statute, in the public sector. The connection it has with the government is via the Machinery of Government and Standards Group of the Cabinet Office.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks bzn

Guy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

latest on BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35773975

states organisers were unaware of pilots display plan which I would have thought somewhat odd to say the least. And that there had not been a risk assessment done.

also:-

"According to the AAIB, the flying display director at Shoreham was well qualified, but he was not fully aware of the sequence of display manoeuvres the pilot of the jet was planning to carry out.

He was not, therefore, able to identify where they would take place, or which groups of people would be put at risk.

The report notes that in a previous display, in 2014, the same aircraft had flown over residential areas several times, as well as performing a steep turn over the town centre of Lancing.

This was despite its flying permit specifically stating that it should not be flown over congested areas and the show's organisers operating under similar constraints. However, the pilot was not told to stop his display."

That's not how I understood it was supposed to work I must say

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is why the CAA are twitchy ,too much slack organisation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed , I can't see how you can keep fast jets or anything that isn't a Tiger Moth or similar type inside the airfield boundry makes you worried for the outcome of UK shows.

Guy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sadly I agree. The location of most of the UK's airshow venues and their proximity to built up areas, roads etc will mean that many of them will become increasingly unviable as new regulations are adopted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if it will affect RIAT as the camp sites are not inside the fence?

Guy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It will affect every venue in one form or the other, including those under military jurisdiction. The MoD said at the start of this process that they will read across any recommendations adopted by the CAA. If this includes increasing the display line from the present 250m to the 450m suggested then this will affect Yeovilton (the village is under the new line) Culdrose (the cottage hospital and part of Helston is under the new line).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bit OT here but I'm glad that Hospital is still open,I knew someone that was collecting sigs to keep it open when it was rumoured to be shut down in 98/99

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If secondary crowd areas have to be considered for the risk assessment then unless a total exclusion zone is set up around the airfield weare going to be left with a series of flypasts. For many air shows it will not be worth the cost/hassle anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Air shows aren't put on as a favour to the aviation enthusiasts, they're money making events. The costs of doing business have gone up (but significantly less for a small airshow than a large one). So the price of admission or commercial pitches or food will have to go up. At £44 for a one-day ticket for RIAT, is another couple of quid on the ticket price going to stop many people going? An airshow either adjusts to the new costs or stops doing business. I'm more worried about the finances of the warbird owners, who rely on show appearance money to keep _them_ in business...

bestest,

M.

Edited by cmatthewbacon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×