Adrian Hills Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I am currently looking for references and images on a Handley Page Hampden in Russian service fitted with a UTK-1 turret. The closest I can get is Wings Palette which quotes an Aviation World image of an aircraft of 3rd AE, 9th GvMTAP, VVS of Northern Fleet. My intention is to modify my Frog 1/96ish Hampden to go with the similar scale Frog Lanc which I did with a new nose to depict Russian service. Any help would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hi Adrian it's a new one too me, and given the VVS had about 20 Hampdens, and unlikely modification. this is the drawing/profile . here's another. I think someone has misidentfied the standard Hampden upper gun position. see here for more photos http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1475.0 I think the profile was done from an image like this, I stand to be corrected but there are very few photos of VVS Hampdens to work from. My Red Stars books are not to hand to check to see if there are any more. The only Lend Lease type I know of that the VVS modified to use a Soviet Turret was the Boston BTW. http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234958887-a-question-about-the-gunners-position-on-a-boston-iii/#entry1599225 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWFK10 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Given how narrow the Hampden's fuselage was, I'ld be surprised if it would have been physically possible to fit the turret to the airframe. I think Troy has the right answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) It might be they just changed the gun? And some "written report" states something about the modification? and someone took it as a complete turret fitted? and then the profile drawn accordingly? Fernando Edited January 4, 2016 by Fernando Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hi I did some searching for you, browse down the link and i think it shows a hampden with the UTK-1 fitted http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/alekseev/index.htm cheers jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaCee26 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hi all, There are a couple of drawings of this type of tower installed also into an Il-2 in this link (go down): http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/il-2/il2-camo/converted2seaters/transition.htm It seems to be fitted also to a C-47: http://www.ebay.de/itm/ORIGINALES-FOTO-WK2-WW2-RUSSISCHE-SOLDATEN-PILOTEN-MIT-FLUGZEUG-FLIEGER-FRAU-71-/311510506246?hash=item4887791b06%3Ag%3A5l0AAOSw~otWeqi-&nma=true&si=3HSY1Gec3%252BNtqhPW7dKw1082vEE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 Cheers, AaCee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hi I did some searching for you, browse down the link and i think it shows a hampden with the UTK-1 fitted http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/alekseev/index.htm cheers jerry Well spotted Jerry. Looks like you are right, that does look like a UTK-1 turret. Hi all, There are a couple of drawings of this type of tower installed also into an Il-2 in this link (go down): http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/il-2/il2-camo/converted2seaters/transition.htm It seems to be fitted also to a C-47: http://www.ebay.de/itm/ORIGINALES-FOTO-WK2-WW2-RUSSISCHE-SOLDATEN-PILOTEN-MIT-FLUGZEUG-FLIEGER-FRAU-71-/311510506246?hash=item4887791b06%3Ag%3A5l0AAOSw~otWeqi-&nma=true&si=3HSY1Gec3%252BNtqhPW7dKw1082vEE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 Cheers, AaCee Interesting photo. I've seen Li-2 with turrets, don't recall seeing a C-47 with one though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learstang Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) The Hampden and the Lend-Lease C-47 with the Soviet turrets are new ones for me. The Il-2 fitted with the turret was purely an experimental example. Not surprisingly, the turret was found to be too heavy to fit to the production examples. However, there is at least one photograph of a modified single-seater Il-2 which appears to show an Il-4 turret fitted, without the glazing. Taking another look at the C-47, it appears to have a flash-suppressor fitted to the machine gun. Regards, Jason Edited January 4, 2016 by Learstang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Tessitori Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Hi all, Interesting photo. I've seen Li-2 with turrets, don't recall seeing a C-47 with one though. I think to remember a photo of another C-47 with camouflage and turret, not a Li-2, on some article about Normandie Niemen. I'll see if I can find it out. Regards Massimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Hills Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 Well chaps you certainly have done well. Thank you to brewjerry for a photograph. I didn't think I'd get one. The article on Dimitri Alekseev is also very interesting, thanks. All I need now is one or two close-ups of the actual turret. My intention is to represent a Hampden in Russian service rather than worry if a panel line is 1/2 a millimetre out of place. After all if one was worried about such things a 1/96 Frog kit would not be a good starting point ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Well chaps you certainly have done well. Thank you to brewjerry for a photograph. I didn't think I'd get one. The article on Dimitri Alekseev is also very interesting, thanks. All I need now is one or two close-ups of the actual turret. My intention is to represent a Hampden in Russian service rather than worry if a panel line is 1/2 a millimetre out of place. After all if one was worried about such things a 1/96 Frog kit would not be a good starting point ! Hi Adrian google is your friend, albeit a creepy one who remembers all your foibles ... "UTK-1 Turret" in search... http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/prototypes/prototypes.html at the bottom are some good photos of a test installation in an IL-2, and on this page there are some CAD drawings, plus a scale drawing http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_44777_start_20.html some more CAD images on page 3 of the link. HTH T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 The outline looks similar to the mid upper on a Lanc. Perhaps one of these would be a good starting point to scratch build this (from two turrets using the rear side only)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Hills Posted February 18, 2016 Author Share Posted February 18, 2016 Cheers Woody37. As I will be working in 1/96 scale I will build a Milliput former and then pull mould two halves on a convenient split line. That method has worked well for a rear turret for a MkI Sunderland and even looked OK when I did a 1/48 Lysander fitted with a rear turret - that was fun! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Starmer Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 The artwork for the Soviet profiles are incorrect. These are very old and drawn ( and copied ad nauseum since) when the aircraft were assumed to be in British bomber colours. They were converted to the TB role at Brush Coachworks in Loughborough and finished in TSS with Sky under surfaces. Since they were intended for night action the sky was over painted with black before deployment. The Russians simply painted over the British markings with their own green. The bomb bay doors were not changed, the ventral gun position was changed to a shallower profile to accommodate the airtail of the torpedo. The rearmost frame of the bomb bay has it's lower section in a concave shape. The doors closed normally after the torpedo had been dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 The artwork for the Soviet profiles are incorrect. These are very old and drawn ( and copied ad nauseum since) when the aircraft were assumed to be in British bomber colours. They were converted to the TB role at Brush Coachworks in Loughborough and finished in TSS with Sky under surfaces. Since they were intended for night action the sky was over painted with black before deployment. The Russians simply painted over the British markings with their own green. The bomb bay doors were not changed, the ventral gun position was changed to a shallower profile to accommodate the airtail of the torpedo. The rearmost frame of the bomb bay has it's lower section in a concave shape. The doors closed normally after the torpedo had been dropped. HI Mike details of TB configuration are in the Sovietwarplanes link, though it links back here http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70233 Regarding the repaint in TSS, this is one of the salvaged VVS Hampdens while very weathered, looks to be standard bomber colours? Since the wreck is in the UK, this could be determined if it had TSS applied over this. cheers T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 There apparently is a hint or two of TSS remaining, or so it is said in another thread, but what you see is the underlying old Bomber Command colours. However, it seems to have been decided to paint it DG/DE during the restoration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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