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Adrian Hills

Turret on Hampden in Russian service

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I am currently looking for references and images on a Handley Page Hampden in Russian service fitted with a UTK-1 turret. The closest I can get is Wings Palette which quotes an Aviation World image of an aircraft of 3rd AE, 9th GvMTAP, VVS of Northern Fleet.

My intention is to modify my Frog 1/96ish Hampden to go with the similar scale Frog Lanc which I did with a new nose to depict Russian service.

Any help would be much appreciated.

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Hi Adrian

it's a new one too me, and given the VVS had about 20 Hampdens, and unlikely modification.

this is the drawing/profile

1_2.jpg.

here's another. I think someone has misidentfied the standard Hampden upper gun position.

1_1_b1.jpg

see here for more photos

http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1475.0

I think the profile was done from an image like this,

2el4mr7.jpg

I stand to be corrected but there are very few photos of VVS Hampdens to work from.

My Red Stars books are not to hand to check to see if there are any more.

The only Lend Lease type I know of that the VVS modified to use a Soviet Turret was the Boston BTW.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234958887-a-question-about-the-gunners-position-on-a-boston-iii/#entry1599225

mm-1.jpg

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Given how narrow the Hampden's fuselage was, I'ld be surprised if it would have been physically possible to fit the turret to the airframe. I think Troy has the right answer.

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It might be they just changed the gun? And some "written report" states something about the modification? and someone took it as a complete turret fitted? and then the profile drawn accordingly?

Fernando

Edited by Fernando

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Hi

I did some searching for you, browse down the link and i think it shows a hampden with the UTK-1 fitted

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/alekseev/index.htm

cheers

jerry

Well spotted Jerry. Looks like you are right, that does look like a UTK-1 turret.

alekseev_13.jpg

Interesting photo. I've seen Li-2 with turrets, don't recall seeing a C-47 with one though.

C-47%20VVS%20with%20turret_zps9dxlvgnt.j

$_57.JPG

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The Hampden and the Lend-Lease C-47 with the Soviet turrets are new ones for me. The Il-2 fitted with the turret was purely an experimental example. Not surprisingly, the turret was found to be too heavy to fit to the production examples. However, there is at least one photograph of a modified single-seater Il-2 which appears to show an Il-4 turret fitted, without the glazing. Taking another look at the C-47, it appears to have a flash-suppressor fitted to the machine gun.

Regards,

Jason

Edited by Learstang

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Hi all,

Interesting photo. I've seen Li-2 with turrets, don't recall seeing a C-47 with one though.

I think to remember a photo of another C-47 with camouflage and turret, not a Li-2, on some article about Normandie Niemen. I'll see if I can find it out.

Regards

Massimo

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Well chaps you certainly have done well. Thank you to brewjerry for a photograph. I didn't think I'd get one. The article on Dimitri Alekseev is also very interesting, thanks. All I need now is one or two close-ups of the actual turret. My intention is to represent a Hampden in Russian service rather than worry if a panel line is 1/2 a millimetre out of place. After all if one was worried about such things a 1/96 Frog kit would not be a good starting point !

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Well chaps you certainly have done well. Thank you to brewjerry for a photograph. I didn't think I'd get one. The article on Dimitri Alekseev is also very interesting, thanks. All I need now is one or two close-ups of the actual turret. My intention is to represent a Hampden in Russian service rather than worry if a panel line is 1/2 a millimetre out of place. After all if one was worried about such things a 1/96 Frog kit would not be a good starting point !

Hi Adrian

google is your friend, albeit a creepy one who remembers all your foibles ...

"UTK-1 Turret" in search...

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/prototypes/prototypes.html

at the bottom are some good photos of a test installation in an IL-2,

and on this page there are some CAD drawings, plus a scale drawing

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_44777_start_20.html

turret-il4.jpg

some more CAD images on page 3 of the link.

HTH

T

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The outline looks similar to the mid upper on a Lanc. Perhaps one of these would be a good starting point to scratch build this (from two turrets using the rear side only)?

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Cheers Woody37. As I will be working in 1/96 scale I will build a Milliput former and then pull mould two halves on a convenient split line. That method has worked well for a rear turret for a MkI Sunderland and even looked OK when I did a 1/48 Lysander fitted with a rear turret - that was fun!

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The artwork for the Soviet profiles are incorrect. These are very old and drawn ( and copied ad nauseum since) when the aircraft were assumed to be in British bomber colours. They were converted to the TB role at Brush Coachworks in Loughborough and finished in TSS with Sky under surfaces. Since they were intended for night action the sky was over painted with black before deployment. The Russians simply painted over the British markings with their own green. The bomb bay doors were not changed, the ventral gun position was changed to a shallower profile to accommodate the airtail of the torpedo. The rearmost frame of the bomb bay has it's lower section in a concave shape. The doors closed normally after the torpedo had been dropped.

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The artwork for the Soviet profiles are incorrect. These are very old and drawn ( and copied ad nauseum since) when the aircraft were assumed to be in British bomber colours. They were converted to the TB role at Brush Coachworks in Loughborough and finished in TSS with Sky under surfaces. Since they were intended for night action the sky was over painted with black before deployment. The Russians simply painted over the British markings with their own green. The bomb bay doors were not changed, the ventral gun position was changed to a shallower profile to accommodate the airtail of the torpedo. The rearmost frame of the bomb bay has it's lower section in a concave shape. The doors closed normally after the torpedo had been dropped.

HI Mike

details of TB configuration are in the Sovietwarplanes link, though it links back here

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=70233

Regarding the repaint in TSS,

this is one of the salvaged VVS Hampdens

HampdenP1344PL-KImagePeterArnold.jpg

while very weathered, looks to be standard bomber colours?

Since the wreck is in the UK, this could be determined if it had TSS applied over this.

cheers

T

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There apparently is a hint or two of TSS remaining, or so it is said in another thread, but what you see is the underlying old Bomber Command colours. However, it seems to have been decided to paint it DG/DE during the restoration.

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