Heller 1/100 17th Century ship of the line

[kpnuts]

Hi all here is my next update.

Anchor ropes made and some of the superstructure made

[beefy66]

Kp were did you get that Sunshine from this is starting to look like the book we can not put down

[Martian]

She is looking very smart with the blue and gold bits going on.

Martin

[kpnuts]

Hi all here is todays efforts. The rear galleries should be open (in fact even on the boxart they are open) so I've cut them out(very nail biting as one slip and I could have ruined them) now I just have to do the floor on the 2 galleries.

[kpnuts]

Well I'm looking at this across the room from me, and beautiful as it may be, moving the plimsole line she would still sink at the first swell (and I haven't even added the stern decks) I think if I put the plimsole where it should be she would suffer the same fate the Wasa. (oops another model I started and forgot about)

Edited March 5, 2016 by kpnuts

[Martian]

Presumably Heller didn't mould the hull deep enough, its difficult to see what you could do about this at this stage of proceedings short of making this a waterline model.

Martin

[Gimme Shelter]

Hi

This really is looking quite superb - that process you used to get the decking colour shading looks very nice.

I'm enjoying following this build along with Foxy's Heller Victory saga

John

[kpnuts]

Hi all here is tonight update

Here is the thing they suggest you mount this beautiful ship on

[Martian]

The galleries have turned out really well! That stand is hideous though, Are you planning to replace it as such a beautiful ship deserves much better?

Martin

[kpnuts]

Yes that stand is fit only for the bin.

[foxy]

Lovely job so far KP mate.

I would however put some more keel to the base, this will give it a better look.

Three wood candle stick effect supports would make all the difference.

Or Brass if your rich enuff .

She is really coming on and the wood effect is stunning.

foxy

[kpnuts]

Hi all here is the next update, I wanted to add some detail to the cannons which can be seen so, after a great suggestion from a member elsewhere on how to make them I made some eyelets for the tie down ropes.

[kpnuts]

Hi all here is the next update on this.

Made a little jig for putting the tie down rings in the same place every time.

yes I know I've missed some painting on the front of the decks but will sort that soon.

[Martian]

Painstaking work but it will pay off big time !

Martin

[beefy66]

This build looks like it is gathering some pace looks like quite a production line on you cannons

Beefy

[kpnuts]

Hi all here is another update

[kpnuts]

Hi all well this kit comeso with no anchors for the boats so I've knocked some up, also there are no oars, I've checked a few builds not of the heller kits and they don't seem to have any either, were they stored below decks or should they be there.

Sorry my build rate has slowed so much, but I get some done when I can fit it in and am not feeling too knackered.

[beefy66]

Slow and steady but nice progress there KP

Beefy

[Killingholme]

Wow- that's an impressive model!

I know you're working with a lot of compromises due to the Heller tooling being based on a 19th century reconstruction, but I thought I'd chime in about the boats- they look rather more like late 18th/19th century types rather than 17th century to me. It's hard to decribe, but 17th century boats appeared rather more like bathtubs. Also, I seriously doubt boats would have been stowed on the quarterdeck- a crucial space for working the ship. I also doubt they would have been painted white at this date, but I suppose nobody can prove us wrong on that score.

Lemineurl's "Les Vaisseaux Du Roi Soleil" is a cracking book on the subject. The relevant sections about ships's boats suggest a large longboat stowed on the maindeck well, and a second (smaller) longboat supported on a "flying bridge" made of grating (totally absent in the Heller kit) which dated to the refit in 1677. Before this, I suspect the boats were nested within each other on the main deck, or perhaps rested on beams in lieu of a proper flying bridge. Either way, I don't think it would be very sensible to have boats stowed on the quarterdeck!

Good luck finishing her off!

(and apologies for the armchair modelling!)

Will

Edited April 21, 2016 by Killingholme

[kpnuts]

To be honest it strikes me as strange that in order to store the larger of the two boats on the main deck, in order to use the stairwell to get below decks it would have to be stored partly under the fore deck or it would be over the stairs thus stopping them from being used, I will work on that.

Edited April 21, 2016 by kpnuts

[Killingholme]

To be honest it strikes me as strange that in order to store the larger of the two boats on the main deck, in order to use the stairwell to get below decks it would have to be stored partly under the fore deck or it would be over the stairs thus stopping them from being used, I will work on that.

Not necessarily a problem- the boats would be towed behind the ship during action. Indeed, during this period (certainly in English practice) the largest ships boat- a pinnace- was often about 50ft long- half the length of the ships keel and a small fighting ship in it's own right. Too large to be stowed on board, they were permanently towed behind the host vessel (much to the degradation of the sailing performance of the ship)

I suppose the crew could use another gangway when the boats were in place?

I must admit, I find it a bit tricky to work out boat positions as in this period only Royal Louis and Soleil Royale were fitted with forescastles (and early form of flying bridges or 'spar deck' in English parlance) All other three deckers of the period were flush-decked, so the drawings in the very few works which survive (e.g. the Album de Corlbert) don't translate all. If the upper deck is flush and there's no forecastle, there wasn't a problem with the boats as they could be positioned fairly forward. Perhaps you're right that the boat was tucked under the break of the forecastle on the Soleil Royale?

Will

Edited April 22, 2016 by Killingholme

[foxy]

Like you say Will, the boats be a problem.

This ships history is that it did not stray far from its ports, so only a few boats would be needed to provision and carry officers and such like.

The forecastle seems the logical place for the boats.

We all like to fill the ships with boats but in this case less is best,'in my opinion'. .

foxy

[Killingholme]

Like you say Will, the boats be a problem.

This ships history is that it did not stray far from its ports, so only a few boats would be needed to provision and carry officers and such like.

The forecastle seems the logical place for the boats.

We all like to fill the ships with boats but in this case less is best,'in my opinion'. .

foxy

Quite right- ships in home waters would be easily provisioned from shore-based vessels, and the 17th Century English navy had a whole range of superbly named types such as Smaks, Galliots, Hoys, Pinks, Flyboats and Doggers for the purpose.

An English first rate of the 1670s would have had a Longboat (50ft), Pinnace (36ft) Skiff (27ft) and later on in the century, a jollyboat (19ft) too. How they were all stowed is still not really known as the records never bothered to indicate- as I said it appears a combination of beams or even spare topmasts could be rigged up on the discretion of individual captains- proper spar decks were in their infancy in this period, but not unknown and it appears Soleil Royale was fitted with something like this in the 1670s.

Remember, there was some reason for the longboats being such huge vessels- they were required to assist in maneouvering the ship, and the great size was partly dictated by the need to run out the Sheet anchor (the ship's largest, emergency anchor) which could weigh up to 3 tons and was perhaps as long as 18ft. Day to day, they were also used to replenish stores which are also very bulky. They were also expected to operate in all seas, under sail or oar. In times of battle ships' boats played a crucial role transferring messages and orders, and were actually part of the tactical operation- taking the ship under tow or bringing her head around in the case of damage to the sails. There are even some records of the boats been deliberately targeted- for example in 1673 Spragge's boat was sunk under him when attempting to transfer his flag from his damaged ship to another. All in all, they're an integral part of the ship's function!

[Album De Colbert- 1677- French 80 gun]

Just a thought- you could mount the longest boat on a separate stand, towed by the main ship? The tow rigging is quite simple- a line from the Stern quarter, and a steadying line running forwards to either the main mast chains or even the bulwark (the engraving I'm looking at isn't that clear). I don't think I've ever seen it done on a model.

Will

Edited April 23, 2016 by Killingholme

[kpnuts]

Thanks mate very informative and helpful

[kpnuts]

Hi all before I came on my hols I had an attempt at starting the rigging for the mast on the front of the bowsprit (don't know what it's called ) making a pigs ear of it, the instructions are worse than useless, I have a feeling this is going to end up a real mess.