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Fiat 806 -"Gangshow"- build album.


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4UA3L9.jpg

 

Hello to all,

 

sorry Hannes, but I don't agree with you about the relation between height and width of the grille. I made measurements on Bordino's photo, to calculate this relation. Obviously (and unhappily we don't have a front view), the width is in reality more than that measure because the view is 3/4 side. So, I took my 31 E piece (do the same) and placed it with the same view angle than on the photo: you'll see that the piece should not be more squarred as you suggest. 

Obviously, my measures only give a relation and not a dimension, so I can't say precisely what should be the height of 31E (and so the width).

I will do measures for 7G (not time now, but it is obvious that you are right, it is too short...

 

All the best 

 

Olivier

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Dear Olivier,I thank you very much for your honest opinion and your efforts.You are right,the width could still be enlarged a bit.

The Problems are the Adaption works regarding the Bonnets.I´m not completely sure, how far I can go with the widened Radiator case.

We´re dealing with a kit  and it´s boundaries.

Anyway,I still can Change the case´s dimensions with no big Problems and I am greatful  about your opinions.

Many greetings to belle France!  Hannes

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Dear Olivier I modified the kit´s case .Generally I don´t trust too  much the dimensions shown on a single photo, because it´s always twisted to a certain degree .I think,the most informative photo about the case´s dimensions is the one that Shows the car during the race (side 2 or 3 on this thread).As a sculptor I´m used to measure dimensions by eyesight and I also know, that this does not necessaryly mean the exact  copy of reality.This is a Miniature of a real car.This means,some dimensions have to be slightly altered to look realistic for the Viewer.I can give you an example:If you look at porcelain figures, you might notice,that Hands and other bodyparts are over- dimensionated compared to reality.If they had the same dimensions as normal sized persons,they would not look convincing for the viewer.Another example regarding a over-sized figure is Michelangelo´s David.His right Hand is oversized compared with an anatomically correct size but does not look wrong at all.

Of Course we all want a realistic looking car,but we must be Aware,That we are not human 3-D Printers and a convincing final result is all that matters.

If I look at my photos in this thread yesterday and compare it with the real model,that stands right before me,it also Looks different  c ompared with the photos and gives an different Impression.So watch out and don´t trust too much in photos and the dimensions shown on them.It also makes a difference if you  look closely to a photo or from farer away. The dimensions will alter depending on the viewer´s distance! Best regards!  Hannes

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Ok, I understand your point of view. How did you get the piece you show us? 3D printing? sculpture? if yes, from what material?

 

P.S: I don't see what race photo inspired you, I tried to find it on p. 2, 3, 4, 5... Can you put it as pic, so that I may see, please?

 

Thanks again...

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Dear Olivier ,I also could not find this photo anymore,because many other photos vanished too.Maybe Problems with the sever? I´m sure, it will reappear again.The Piece was made out of the kit´s case and I did describe my  measurements yesterday after photo 3.Greetings! Hannes

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Hello John, hello to all,

could you, if you see what photo Hannes means, post it so that I can make myself an idea, and maybe confirm the mesures I made for the relation height/ width of the grille. John, I tried unsuccessfuly to come in contact with Bruno Betti. I Wonder if he is still alive... Pity, his testimony would have been interesting and maybe very helpful.. Did you try too?

As I got my thin wires for ignition wiring, I had to decide their way, and I decided ultimately to make run by the outside of the distributors (as in B. Betti drawing, not as Andi who made them run by a big hole Inside 121D). I considered this way a bit more probable in the context of a race (more easy to intervene on them). I took in consideration that Betti's drawing was very accurate on many aspects we know, and that Andi said himself not to consider his choices as references because he made it in the feeling...

Photos in the next pic.

All the best

Olivier

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Dear Olivier Photobucket seems to be alive again. Side two of this thread. A good advice:Prnit all 7 Photos out (I did this in DIN-A3)and hang them on your wall. You´ll discover new Things every day.. Believe me! Many greetings  Hannes

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1 hour ago, Hannes said:

Dear Olivier Photobucket seems to be alive again. Side two of this thread. A good advice:Prnit all 7 Photos out (I did this in DIN-A3)and hang them on your wall. You´ll discover new Things every day.. Believe me! Many greetings  Hannes

Good tip Hannes! You need a pinboard near your work area.

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Dear John,regarding the lowering of the bodywork´s height,I measured out,that it could be lowered 2 mm if the Bonnets are parallel to the engine.

If you also alter the frame´s height(1mm),it´s possible to lower the whole bodywork behind the Bonnets 3mm!

This should look much more realistic,but all consequences have to be considered.  Best regards  Hannes

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cVitEq.png

 

Hi guys,

 

making this kit will make us mad, it's sure! On this photo, Hannes is right! Even if you consider the angle of view is more opened than on the other one, the calander is more squarred: here, the relation between midth and height is 1,5x (it was 2,04 on the other one!) So, depending on the photo you consider, the calander is very different. Put the 2 photos one near the other and you will see this big difference. Now, the question is: which one is the good?? I say to you, we will get mad!!! :D

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HJReSn.png

 

I made the job: what do you think of that? it is obvious that the grille is more squarred on the left photo, and more extended on the right photo. If you consider this last one is the most accurate, the kit's grille is good, but if you take the left one in consideration (notice the photo was taken from a much higher point...), then, Hannes is right.

 

 

Edited by Olivier de St Raph
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And why do you trust in photos that have been takenmore than  eighty years ago with cameras considerably less efficient than the actual ones...What's more, the pictures could have been distorted whilst scanning or Photoshop modifying them, before been put on Internet....so....

I do no trust personally to the left picture...it seems to have been stretched widthwise....

 

 

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Dear Olivier,you also must consider the 3 photos of the prototype to get the best Impression,That´s possible. I changed my case somewhat by making the upper arches somewha smoother. I think,it would be the best solution, if you would buid a new case by yourself and compare it with the Fotos hanging on your wall.

In my opinion that´s the best way to find out the truth.Many greetings!  Hannes

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Dear crazy crank,that´s what I wanted to tell Olivier in my yesterday´s Statement.The more photos we have, the more accurate we can get closer to the truth.But one photo made with an ancient camera can be very subjective.Greetings to the Netherlands!  Hannes

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5 minutes ago, Hannes said:

Dear crazy crank,that´s what I wanted to tell Olivier in my yesterday´s Statement.The more photos we have, the more accurate we can get closer to the truth.But one photo made with an ancient camera can be very subjective.Greetings to the Netherlands!  Hannes

 

So, we are OK, Hannes....and i'm from France, as Olivier :rolleyes:

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el4AOG.jpg

 

 

Ok, that is my last contribution to this debate, because I must go on with my kit ans my ignition wiring. It is a comparison between my grille and the one of the car: really, I think it is right. What is wrong, we agree, is the lenght of 7G, much too short. I will think about the way to get it longer...

All the best

Edited by Olivier de St Raph
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26 minutes ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

HJReSn.png

 

I made the job: what do you think of that? it is obvious that the grille is more squarred on the left photo, and more extended on the right photo. If you consider this last one is the most accurate, the kit's grille is good, but if you take the left one in consideration (notice the photo was taken from a much higher point...), then, Hannes is right.

 

 

Right chaps! Playing Devil's Advocate again...I would not trust that image at all. It is taken at speed (and as pointed out by others just now) it's on an old camera with slow film. High speed shots from the period were very distorted with the classic oval wheels which gives an impression of speed. The grille here will be stretched on the x-axis; you can see the effects on the exaggerated camber on the front wheels. Compare the camber with the studio shots!

 

In not in France, but very much enjoying St. Germains latest album right now! :)

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Let me please add some thoughts regarding our Topic.

A photo is an 2-dimensional object showing a 3-dimensional one.That means,the human eye very often is not able to judge the foresighting of the perspective.Measurements from sideviews cannot be objective,if you don´t know the exact angle and the twisting by the camera´s lenses.

In our case there´s an other hindrance too: The two cross-struts are somewhat arched and don´t allow us a free sight towards the other end of the case. when seen from the side.

Even if they might be twisted a bit,the Pictures from the start and during the race are much more objective,than the rest of the photos with their somewhat confusing sideviews. Many greetings! Hannes

 

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hYEAIQ.jpg7ry5Hs.jpg

 

Hello guys,

 

here it is. My 14th step is finally over! The decision about ignition wiring was very difficult in the lack of any photo of the engine. The choice of wires was not easy too: I could not find the precise diameter I wanted (0,65 mm). Thanks to Thierry (CC), I found brown 0,45 mm wires on the net (the seller said they were 0,55...). With the coat of Vallejo paint (a mix of yellow 915 and beige brown 875 applied with a thin paintbrush, I increased a bit the diameter, around 0,5 mm (which means 6 mm at scale 1:0, a little too thin but acceptable and easier to work than thicker...). 

 

P.S: Hannes, I totally respect your point of view, even if I go on thinking the proportions of the kit's grille are correct. I will follow with interest your work. But another argument to say the grille was not as squarred as you suggest is on p. 23 of the instruction sheet (only front view available). 

 

All the best to all

 

Olivier

 

P.S: A very special thanks to Thierry for his precious help in that step :)

Edited by Olivier de St Raph
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Dear Olivier take a closer look at this Picture.I mentioned it as Picture from start in my last 2 replies .You can see the left side of the grill,and this  Shows us the frontal view as o Whole.Compare it with the photo of the driving car and you might see,what I mean.Greetings!  Hannes

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