vontrips Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) Hi chaps! So many questions! Olivier, that's the only extra image I have! I thought it was already in this thread; I know I've mentioned it before. Check out page 7 for my back plate and drum example. Hannes, I always thought that master model was much larger than 1/12th. I have read somewhere Fiat have a 1/5th model at Head Quarters...I always assumed this to be it! I do have a bad quality picture of a well built car somewhere - it may be this model? Sam, you could be correct in many of your assumptions. The illustrator could be one of many highly skilled artists of the time though. Looking at the style, I would put my money on LaTourette. In the 50s he did a lovely cutaway of The Stutz LSR car. The car did not exist then and he based a lot of the drawing on rough plans, photos and guess work...these guys are very clever! However, I gave up using it for reference for my SBHS build, as some of the design would not work in reality...grrr! I know of an English illustrator who has a vast knowledge on the subject - I will ask him if he can identify the 806 illustration! Edited October 30, 2016 by vontrips 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Dear John, there are two additional Pictures of this model in the net.Firsly the blurred one,you mentioned before and the other one/afrontal view)is shown on this Bordino Monza side you shurely know.Anyway,the frontal view Shows better dimensions than our kit(and the cooler itself is much more realistic),but still not Close enough to the original.Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 This may be it Hannes! No idea where I stole it from and on my sickly laptop (had to photo from screen). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Dear John, yes this is exactly what I was talking about. Nice grill!It will be a real challeng to scratchbuild it...Many greetings Hannes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 4 minutes ago, Hannes said: Dear John, yes this is exactly what I was talking about. Nice grill!It will be a real challeng to scratchbuild it...Many greetings Hannes Dear hannes Olivier de St Raph did it ! have a glance on previous pages of this thread, and you'll see his incredible work ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Yes John, I saw his fantastic and impressive work.Because I altered the cooler case´s dimensions,I have to build a new Frame,new crossbeams and will use nickel silver rods for the grating.I already have plans for this Metall construction but still have to mull over some Details like the covering of the crossbeams.At this stage, it´s simply not possible , to use the kit´s grill anymore.If you are interested in my deliberations,please ask me! Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Hello to all, first of all, a little memory of my week-end at Sanremo. As we were eating at a (good) restaurant, I fell on this picture. I share it with you, even if there is no relation with our subject. The photo was taken in 1938 in front of the Sanremo Casino (still exists). I suppose the car is a Bugatti, but some of you will be more competent and maybe I'm wrong. The photo shows the winner, Achille Varzi, of this international G.P... Now, to come-back to our subject: 1) Don't worry, John, I have absolute faith in you. As I said previously, my english is not good enough for me to understand all what you all say on the thread and I did not read all from the beginning and in particular what you said about the drum brakes. That's why I say that 1 picture is better than 1000 words. This picture was not on the thread, you thought it was, ok, no problem, now it is! 2) I must confess I still don't understand what you said about this "master model". If I undestand well, you speak about something for which we don't have any picture, am I right? 3) I am gonna try to come in contact with G. Piola, but John, you seem to think it is another artist who made the drawing. We shall see... 4) Hannes, what do you mean by "the cooler case"? the radiator grille? sorry, but want to be sure I understand. Very frustrating for me not to be able to understand 100% of your comments to all... 5) About the radiator grille, I must admit that, except the number of spokes, the very probable lack of nuts on it (I mentionned that above), and the excessive thickness of the frame (what makes ever a lot...), I don't see very well what is wrong. I would be very grateful to Hannes or John to make a simple drawing so that things are more clear for me, poor french with a quite poor english... All the best to all Olivier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) P.S: Sam, the week-end was too short (just 1 night) to go up to Torino. But John pricked hardly my curiosity speaking about the "Fiat head quarters" that would keep hidden precious infos for us... Next time maybe??? No one knows a Torinese modeler who could help?? Just seen your additional comment for me on your previous post. Very kind, thank you, and you can be sure if I build the Mef (very probable), I'll go on your great thread that will be very helpful... Thanks too to CC for his kind comments about my grille... Edited October 30, 2016 by Olivier de St Raph addition 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptcruiser Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Ref the advertisement colour picture, the steering wheel is on upside down? The same image is on the black and white instruction manual for the meal kit. Rich 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) You are right Rich, I had noticed that too, the wheels should be turned with the steering wheel in that position (upside down). P.S: I have just sent a mail to G. Piola, I pray for him to answer me. Will keep you informed... Now, I leave you, I must modify my steering wheel, and, for pity's sake, don't give me the proof tomorrow the screen was finally in front of the spokes!!! Edited October 30, 2016 by Olivier de St Raph addition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Dear olivier Radiator and cooler means the same Thing. The cooler case means the box, wher the Radiator is in and the grill is situated at it´s front.My English is also not as good,as it should be.Master-model means:,This model is the pattern for developing the kit.and was ordered by Provini,the owner of the Protar factory to Show his developers,how the kit should look like. Hannes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 27 minutes ago, ptcruiser said: Ref the advertisement colour picture, the steering wheel is on upside down? The same image is on the black and white instruction manual for the meal kit. Rich That same 1/5th car is indeed on the Protar instructions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Olivier de St Raph said: Hello to all, first of all, a little memory of my week-end at Sanremo. As we were eating at a (good) restaurant, I fell on this picture. I share it with you, even if there is no relation with our subject. The photo was taken in 1938 in front of the Sanremo Casino (still exists). I suppose the car is a Bugatti, but some of you will be more competent and maybe I'm wrong. The photo shows the winner, Achille Varzi, of this international G.P... Hem, Olivier I apologize for my comment, but if think this picture legend is wrong, because There was no International GP in San Remo from 1938 to 1947. Furthermore, in 1938, Achille Varzi has competed only one event, in Tripoli, on a Maserati 8CTF ("8 cilindri Testa fissa", "8 cylinder-in-line") On the other hand, it's absolutely right that Achille Varzi won the first San Remo GP, not on a Bugatti, but on a Maserati 4CM, in 1937. On this Photo, it's indeed a Bugatti, easily recognisable by its calender and the front axle shape. It's a 51 Type, number 8, the only Bugatti engaged in this race between 12 Maserati and 1 Mercedes-Benz, and it was driven by Luigi Vlla. You should not believe everything you read ! Edited October 30, 2016 by CrazyCrank 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) Ok CC, very impressed (as always) by your science about all what touches classic cars and races... I must say I just reported the legend under the photo in the restaurant, but I thought indeed it was right. Anyway, not very important for our thread, it was just a nice photo I wanted to share with all of you to lighten the mood. We are all so focused on the truth we are looking for. This week-end with my dear wife, under an incredible sun, was good to disconnect a bit and put into perspective our hobby's passion. P.S: happily, I modified very easily, in 15 mn the steering wheel. I had the good idea not to use cement but double sided tape to fix the hub and the screen. I just have to add the "cramp" rod on the spokes, with 0,4 mm Aber steel rod, and it will be over. Again thank you to Hannes and John about that important correction. Photos of the steering wheel finally over (?) in the next post... Edited October 30, 2016 by Olivier de St Raph correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharknose156 Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) Hello CC you beat me to it. Indeed there was no San Remo GP ( voiturettes) in 38 the next race after 37 was in 47 if i am correct. I am not sure however this is a Bugatti because of the characteristic wheels . The calandre indeed looks Bugatti but you are the expert. Edited October 30, 2016 by sharknose156 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, CrazyCrank said: Hem, Olivier I apologize for my comment, but if think this picture legend is wrong, because There was no International GP in San Remo from 1938 to 1947. Furthermore, in 1938, Achille Varzi has competed only one event, in Tripoli, on a Maserati 8CTF ("8 cilindri Testa fissa", "8 cylinder-in-line") On the other hand, it's absolutely right that Achille Varzi won the first San Remo GP, not on a Bugatti, but on a Maserati 4CM, in 1937. On this Photo, it's indeed a Bugatti, easily recognisable by its calender and the front axle shape. It's a 51 Type, number 8, the only Bugatti engaged in this race between 12 Maserati and 1 Mercedes-Benz, and it was driven by Luigi Vlla. You should not believe everything you read ! Funny I looked at it and immediately thought of the hill at Monaco, which I've walked many times. Defo a Bugatti though! ;-) Edited October 30, 2016 by vontrips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 GP about to start, so in a rush. Word up from (IMHO) the best technical illustrator on the planet; Tony Matthews! He believes from the style it is the work of one of the Betti brothers - more likely Bruno. Must admit, I did a quick search of his work and I think that's most likely. Note, he's a contemporary artist so he would have relied on historical information, or lack off! ;-) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) Hello John, hello to all, been watching Bruno Betti's images, indeed, it looks like the picture I posted this morning. But the Fiat 806 is missing among the many cars presented... Do you think you could come in contact with him? P.S: Correction, I found it!!! there is also the Mef! So, it is very important to come in contact with him!! Edited October 30, 2016 by Olivier de St Raph correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Dedicated to Sam: Bruno Betti's Mef cutaway... Bravo John, you found the artist. I hope it will be possible to get precisions from him... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Dear crazy crank,sorry I replied to John instead to you I just didn´t notice,where the mail was coming fom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 12 minutes ago, vontrips said: Funny I looked at it an immediately thought of the hill at Monaco, which I've walked many times. Deformed a Bugatti though! ;-) This picture has been taken in San Remo. You can see and recognize the "Casino Municipale": As for the car, for me it's a Bugatti, distorted obviously, because the photo seems stretched upward, and the perspective shorten the car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCrank Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 6 minutes ago, Hannes said: Dear crazy crank,sorry I replied to John instead to you I just didn´t notice,where the mail was coming fom. You're welcome Hannes, it doesn't matter, i'd understood your reply was for me ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptcruiser Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Ref San Remo, possibly Luigi Villa in a T51 Bugatti. 1937. Raced #8. Rich 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharknose156 Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 @Olivier de St Raph Thank you very much Olivier ! Un grand merci ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 (edited) Hi chaps, this time, I think my steering wheel is finally ok... thanks again Hannes for your pertinent hint! A question to Andi, about his choice to make run the ignition wiring by the inside of 121D. How did you decide to make such a choice instead of the outside? the B. Betti drawing makes me have again doubts about that point. On the drawing, the wires run outside the distributor on the left side, and it is not clear on the right one, maybe to avoid masking the distributor. Notice that, on that drawing, 121D is totally missing. Waiting for your comments... Best regards to all Olivier P.S: I had the idea to put the wrong kit's 64E and 54E for comparison... Edited October 31, 2016 by Olivier de St Raph correction 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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