colin Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Well I've bit the bullet and ordered one from Germany, quite a saving on rrp and no vat/customs charge as it's within the EU. Glad after reading the quotes that I didn't jump in with a pre- order for a UK one now and pay full price. I sold the Mefistofele to fund it as I like the lines of this one better and I'm sure a nice kit can be made oob and a super one if you want to put the time in. Think I may leave the wheels as they are if they are as good as the Mefistofele, as I think those where pretty good for plastic ones, although perhaps not accurate,unless someone comes in with something on the aftermarket side, although nothing out there for the Mefistofele that I can find and that's been out a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Fernando Pinto in Portugal does a set of wheels for the Airfix Whoofer. £100 for a set of six though !! Of course, that would be cheaper for a set of four. Now if three of us got together and order 2 x sets split 3 ways that will bring the cost down Edit, Looks like the kits ones will be ok then 36 spokes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Andi Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 Edit, Looks like the kits ones will be ok then 36 spokes Hmmm ... I've just blown up and counted the spokes on one of those period racers and I get 52 ... although how many are tangential and how many are radial is anyone's guess. If you google "wire wheels it just gets more and more confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Andi Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 This is the best I can come up with at the minute, a quick release hub racing wheel for a Ford speedster about 1926/7 by all accounts. "20 spokes out front and 32 at the rear". I know it's not close to the wheel we're looking for but it's a start, and it's the correct period, spoke count and type? It's a Houk wheel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Yep, did the same this afternoon...52 spokes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Andi Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 OK - So you expected to open this page and see some activity and building - yes? ........................... Yep' ... well so did I; There's enough of these out there now, and there's enough in our gang alone to see some posts already. So c'mon guys - lets have a little movement. Before you shout at me? - It's still not bliddy well here yet - ParcelFarce really are a fistful of doo-doo. I understand it's not the ideal time of year, it's fallen wrong with bank holidays and weekends - But for sake. It still shows as out delivery, the itemised list still shows it returned to the depot - it's all but bliddy impossible to make any kind of meaningful contact with an actual person and all their help pages are anything but ... by contrast the private couriers are a breeze compared to this, at least they keep you updated with current information and don't leave you sitting in waiting for days at a time ... if it doesn't appear by Monday I shall cancel the order and the seller can contemplate the loss of business how he chooses. ............... Grrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 24hr Express are indeed useless. I've had to wait a week for one of their parcels (and they damaged it!). I have no idea how they stay in business! Busy on the TA, but may draw up a spoke pattern template this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Send in a complaint via their website, quote the delivery number and you should receive some compensation, now don't spend it all at once, as it will be a book(s) of stamps, haha don't ask me how I know Thanks for using our service as compensation here are some stamps so you can use us again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) Just having a faff around with some of the period b&w car pics in Photoshop and Illustrator overlaying some of the kit wheel and drum dimensions. The drums are OK size wise, but to be accurate the widest part of the wheel hub needs to be a mm or two smaller, so you see more drum. I was wrong with my quick spoke count previously - I'm now getting 58 spokes front and back. Not a simple job as the spokes cast shadows on the drum face! In hyndsight, I'm going to draw the wheel with 60 spokes as given the paired spoke pattern front and back, the number should be divisible by 4. Edited January 3, 2016 by vontrips 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnkm13 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hi guys, Not much of an update with pics. I'm currently working on the engine. Fit is OK, but a number of ejector marks to clean up. The engine is rather simple compared to the Mefistofele, and also a much easier build. Will take some photos of my progress and post them later. Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) Aha! Think I've nailed it - all I've got to do now is work out how to make them! Edited January 4, 2016 by vontrips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnkm13 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Ooucchh...this looks mega complicated. Unless there is a step by step tutorial for dummies, i think i'll have to stay with the kit's supplied wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Andi Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 John .... well done, it looks as though we may be homing onto a solution? ............. Although you now have 30 spokes to the front and 30 to the rear which some how doesn't sit well with my thinking. The rear spokes are placed to fit as close as possible on the same plane as the wheel bearing (Which is why there tends as a rule to be a lot more of them) with the front spokes run out at a castor angle in order to deal with the lateral loads .... having said that I'm no expert. It seems as if the more I think about this the more confused (and stressed) I'm getting. So I may just back off here and go with a cosmetic solution that I can resolve easily and actually enjoy the process ..... forgive me for what might be a "rivet counting bail" ... that seems almost enough excuse on its own doesn't it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnkm13 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hi guys, Some minor update. Working mainly on the engine. Here's a dry fit of the engine. Fit is excellent for a kit its age. Some parts are friction fit, so it will be easy painting it separately then pushing it in place. I'll do up the whole engine including paint before working on the rest of the kit. Jeremy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Andi Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) Great start Jeremy ..... I think everyone should post pic's of the engine start as those block halves going together are almost a right of passage for an Automotive build - sort of like breaking Champagne across the bows of the kit ...................... looking forward to seeing more of this. PS ............................... You're in the lead! ................. Edited January 4, 2016 by Little Andi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 John .... well done, it looks as though we may be homing onto a solution? ............. Although you now have 30 spokes to the front and 30 to the rear which some how doesn't sit well with my thinking. The rear spokes are placed to fit as close as possible on the same plane as the wheel bearing (Which is why there tends as a rule to be a lot more of them) with the front spokes run out at a castor angle in order to deal with the lateral loads .... having said that I'm no expert. It seems as if the more I think about this the more confused (and stressed) I'm getting. So I may just back off here and go with a cosmetic solution that I can resolve easily and actually enjoy the process ..... forgive me for what might be a "rivet counting bail" ... that seems almost enough excuse on its own doesn't it? Hmm, not sure as there appears to be an equal split front to back, from what I can assertain from the blurry pics. I'll copy the kit in having 4 lines of holes in the hub as there's no room for so many holes at the narrow hub front. I certainly won't be cross-lacing front to back which is generally a later engineering technique. My main concern so far has been to get the spoke pairs crossing in the correct place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) Looking good Jeremy! Did you strip the plating? My engine parts are plated in a weird finish which has pooled around the details...think they used too much of the clear, thick pre-plate stuff! Edited January 4, 2016 by vontrips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnkm13 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Looking good Jeremy! Did you strip the plating? My engine parts are plated in a weird finish which has pooled around the details...think they used too much of the clear, thick pre-plate stuff! Yes, the plating was stripped by soaking in Clorox over 2 nights. It does not come off instantly like Tamiya's plating, but eventually, all the plating came off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Andi Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 Hmm, not sure as there appears to be an equal split front to back, from what I can assertain from the blurry pics. I'll copy the kit in having 4 lines of holes in the hub as there's no room for so many holes at the narrow hub front. I certainly won't be cross-lacing front to back which is generally a later engineering technique. My main concern so far has been to get the spoke pairs crossing in the correct place! Agreed ................. I'm doing all this pontificating but still haven't got the kit in my hands yet (what a crock). As mentioned previously once I do, I think the solution will be what I can actually achieve rather what may or may not be prototypical. I think I'll defer to your assessment in this case; you'll probably be at that point waaaay before me anyway the rate the Post Office are going. I actually managed to speak to someone at both the PO and the Suppliers yesterday - both were surprisingly sympathetic ... but neither bothered to make the return call they promised me!! .........................even more Grrrr! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Andi Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 Suppliers have come good and after speaking with ParcelForce themselves; are actually sending me a "brand new" replacement - via DHL!!! So hopefully I should be "knowing what I'm talking about"? sometime by end of day tomorrow. ................... I'll be sure to let you all know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) Had a nice meet up with Rich (ptcruiser) tonight, who has kindly lend me his Protar version for comparison! First observation is the difference in profile and diameter of the two tyres. The new (Mefistofele type) 69.6mm diameter; Protar (Fiat 806 type) 65mm diameter. Secondly, the old Protar cover photo shows a heavily detailed car with wire spokes and nipples (LilAndi!). Doesn't match my spoke count but looks far better than stock. Changing my spoke drawing after using other reference and taking onboard Andi's info on the matter. Getting 20 spokes front/40 back! ;-) Edited January 6, 2016 by vontrips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jnkm13 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Kinda ridiculous for the price they are charging to give the Mefistofele tyres instead of the originals that came with Protar. I already thought the 806 is overpriced compared to the Mefistofele. Besides casting the Protar's tyres, any other alternatives that to use what came with the Italeri's kit? Some update on my build. I have primed all the engine parts using black primer. Will lay on some gloss black then some colour coats this weekend. Will post photos once the colour coats are on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Andi Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 Damn .... just did a great big explanation and then lost it by not opening photobucket in a new window!!! Anyhoo, the gist of it was this - I concur that it is after much ado a 20 front 40 rear layout, but again after much consideration and bleary eyed study it is the same configuration as the "Houk" wheel I posted earlier. This has a single front spoke followed by a "twin" rear spoke arranged across the rim - front - rear - front .... etc. Check out the two pic's of the original rear wheel and the clearer Houk wheel??? .......... Once you understand what it is you're looking at it makes sense - Yes? I'm always open to revised thinking but if I can't find anything clearer I shall go with this on the build - assuming I can figure a way to do it?? Kit arrived in the East Mid's depot at midnight last night, but didn't get put on the delivery truck till 10 o'clock this morning. Seem to have spent my entire Christ and New Year waiting in for parcels - and always when I have other rather urgent errands to run too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharknose156 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) `Little Andi hang in there, your pleasure to build will be that much bigger than just going to the shop and buy it off the shelf. i had a similar post office mishap myself with two orders from the USA over xmas; a bugatti AMT and an Aston AMT all 1 /32 though... Jeremy well done i am following your build through this thread. am starting the mephisto but will not post until completed, too many posts already on this car. I will paint it "London bus" red-orange weathered after all. Right now, am in the process of placing the rivets and using the Dutch youtube on the subject as a guide. but enough on the Mephisto, i will shut up and cheer YOU ALL on building the 806 from the sidelines ! as for the wheels, it is an incredible task to rebuild the wheels, i suppose you will use fishing line threads and cardboard ? so my hat off vontrips. good luck everyone and above all : enjoy !! Edited January 7, 2016 by sharknose156 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vontrips Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) That first picture's confusing because of the flash shadow, but yes, I'm thinking along the same path! I'm thinking 40 holes along the same plane at the back. 20 holes will be perpendicular to the front holes with 20 in between. I won't be doing front to back cross-spokes for 2 reasons! 1. On model wheels it looks like a mistake (and messy). 2. It neccessitates drilling the holes on a third plane - argh! Awaiting response from Italeri about the tyre issue! Edited January 7, 2016 by vontrips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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