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Super to Standard VC10 conversion?


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Hi,

The Roden Super VC10 should be out soon so I'm just thinking ahead and wondering what would be involved in converting a Super VC10 to a Standard. Obviously the fuselage would need to be cut down, that's no problem, but how different is the wing, is it just the inboard leading edge extension? Are the engines the same?

Anybody have any thoughts?

Cheers,

Ian

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It really all depends on what aircraft you want to model. the web site link below should help

http://www.vc10.net/Technical/wing_shapes.html

Thanks for that link. It's a great site but I've just spent a long time reading various pages on it and have been unable to build a simple list of which airframes (Std or Super) have which wings. For example, do all RAF VC-10s (be they C1, C1K, K2, K3 or K4) have the 'Super' wing with the extended leading edge and three fences?

Similarly, which ones have the pointy 'beaver tails'? (I suspect it's just the K3 and K4s that have that)

Is there a list somewhere to get this info., please?

David

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The other thing to take into account is that some Standard VC10 had cargo doors such as the Type 1103 and others did not, if I was you I would pick a particular aircraft you would like to do and then work out what Type that VC10 would be, then you can find whether it had wing chord extensions, what engines it had etc.

Also for your information the body length of the Standard VC10 is 133'8", so 1/144 scale would be 283.21mm

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Thanks for the replies everyone!

If I do go down this road I'll have to do some heavy research I guess! vc10.net is a great resource thanks for the link Kev.

Whilst I am excited by a new injection moulded Super (definitely have to get 2, BOAC and EAA) I am disappointed it's not a Standard as there are far more livery options. Who knows maybe Roden will bring out a Standard in the near future too!

Cheers,

Ian

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The K. Mi. 2s were all ex-BOAC/BA Standards and lacked the extended leading edges of the 1106, 1151 and 1154s. Not sure if the BUA 1103s also had the extensions, but I think they introduced the extended Kuchemann wingtips. 1103s, 1106s and 1154s had main deck freight doors; the K. Mk. 2s and 4s lacked these so in the former holes had to be cut n the fuselage crowns to install the main deck fuel tanks while the 4s didn't have these tanks. On the 3s (1154 to 1164 conversion, IIRC) the tanks were installed through the main deck cargo doors. Usual rules: get as many photos of your chosen subject as you can.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Last time I checked the Roden website, they were releasing both standard and super. Has this changed?

If that was so, then it has changed. Two fuselage tools would push project costs up, and Roden is no Zvezda or Revell...

Early photos of kit contents (with decals and instructions -- the full SP) show a BOAC Super with no freight doors, so EAA and RAF models will have to be modified by modellers. Not that this is so difficult. Engine pairs have no beaver-tail fairings, which led me to think that both screwdriver and spike versions were on the sprues. Alas, only spikes seem to be there, on closer examination...

http://www.frogmodelaircraft.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=317

Edited by skippiebg
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  • 3 weeks later...

The BA and EAA Supers... Beavers are were conical.that goes for K3&K4s (except for 2 BA Supers for some reason)The original BOAC Supers weren't, (see Duxfords 'SGC) the ends were straight in profile but after the uncountable Beaver MODs they went for conical tails. The EAA were built with Conicals as far as I remember. The RAF C.Mk1s have had a host of Beaver MODs but were generally straight tails/end caps with radiused top and bottom and were bolted with VGS 7000 series Mush Hd bolts in 1992 instead of monel rivets.Beavers were not painted on any in service VC10(like Duxfords is) They are an all Titanium assembly,don't need painting,dont corrode and gets a bit hot!

The wing fences on the Supers and RAF C.Mk1..The big inbd fence are a few of inches further outbd than the Std,clearing the 2 and 3 tank access lids.The Std's cuts through the fwd lid,that fence has a removeable portion to get access to the lid.The Std's are also slightly curved in plan view.The Std outbd fences and vortex generators.I have pics of them to help.There is also a small under wing fence near the tip that gets missed.

The increased area wing...In the end VC10s EXCEPT original BOAC Stds including those sold on(like the RAF K2s) The increased area came from deeper leading edge fairings,the parts the Slats retract on to.The actual wing box is the same shape on all of the VC10s its the falsework and fairings bolted,screwed and riveted to the wing box that changes the shape. The wing box internal structure isn't something for you to worry about but I found some changes inside the K2 to the others I've worked on.

Slat fences,a bit confusing. Some had a few small slat fences,you need to image search for details of the VC10 you want to build,that goes for any details you need really.

Stubwings..The BOAC,BUA,Ghana etc. originals were shorter span and a slightly different angle to the Fuse.

I haven't seen the kit so I don't know about which Stub you get. The RAF C.Mk1s had Super Stubs longer span and cranked/twisted slightly to bring the Engines nose up a touch.Check out the changes to the trailing edge of the Stubs too,some are straight,some have an angled back end. You can see this on the VC10 walkround pics on SGC at Duxford,infact you need to live in that VC10 walkround thread to get a better handle on the differences. Also image search VC10 and you'll find some good pics. Thats what I did,got hundreds.

Wing tips. These are just a bolt on item The BOAC originals had "square ish" tips but were probably changed later for the K2,the Supers and RAF C.Mk1s had the smooth curved (in plan view) Kuchemann tips,the BUA kites had a different Kuchemann tip that angled down at the lead/edge for cruising at 40,000+ feet!. Have a look at the walkround of the Sultan of Oman's Ten at Brooklands.

I have stacks of photos and can send you examples of the differences if some of this doesn't make sense,its easier when you see what I'm going on about.

PM me your email if you want them...Or anything else!

Edited by bzn20
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Looking at the photos of the kit fuselage, the mountings for the engine pylons is wrong. The increased AOA on the super engines wasn't achieved by simply mounting the pylons at a different angle on the fuselage, an extension was added between the fuselage and the pylon which lifted the AOA of the pylons and engines but the mounting points on the fuselage were the same on super as on the standard.

link showing extension to engine stub pylons

http://www.vc10.net/Memories/Images/SVC10_engpylon.jpg

Edited by Blacktjet
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They were,the dihederal of the Stubs on the Std were constant,on the Super there was a decrease in dihederal at the fwd end,inbd of the small intake on the stub lead/edge this "kink" was tapered towards the rear.This changed the angle of the engine center line to the Fuse C/L.The new structure for the Supers Stubs started where the beams joined the fuse/carry through structure to the other side.

Edited by bzn20
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The difficult part of the conversion from super to standard, will be shortening the rear fuselage. The cut will have to be immediately aft of the trailing edge of the wing but you will have to cut around the rear portion of the wing fillet because the curvature of the lower fuselage on the standard needs to start just aft of the wing.

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Its a Standard Fuselage K2 . The original Airfix VC10 boxing in BOAC and then BA based on the Prototype though on it's first flight in a Pre MOD state. Beavers,Fences missing.

I don't know whats missing or added to the K2 kit apart for the required refueling kit,Probe,HDU,wing pods,rear facing TV camera housing etc.are all supplied.

Edited by bzn20
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Thanks, that means there would soon be a Super VC10 available and a standard if you can get hold of the Airfix K2, albeit with some adapting. I know there's the Welsh Models standard VC10 but I'm talking injection moulded.

Sorry for hijacking your thread Ian but I thought that this could be a related item.

Mike

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The K2 AAR external gear was the same on the K3 . The K4 didn't have the HDU,no tankage in the cabin.If thats what you are thinking about. The HDUs were a much modified piece of equipment,kept redesigning bits of them,couldn't hack the punishment they were getting!

Edited by bzn20
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No problem hijacking the thread Mike, it's all VC10 related!

I may take you up on your offer bzn20, once I decide which VC10s I'll be modelling, it won't just be one or two! I don't think I'll be able to resist a few conversions back to Standards. Of course I'll be building a BOAC and EAA Super too!

My first thought on seeing the sprue shots provided by praded-dembelya in this thread http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234995138-vickers-vc10-1144-roden/ was that the engine pylons appear to be completely horizontal like the Airfix kit so some surgery may be require in this area, otherwise it looks very nice.

Can't be far away from being released now!

Cheers,

Ian

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  • 2 months later...

Got my first Roden Super VC10 a couple of days ago and I'm really impressed. I love the crisp detail and the nose shape is spot on as far as I'm concerned, scribing is nice and fine. I normally fill most scribing but I don't think I will with this one. Decals aren't great but I normally use aftermarket ones anyway.

Pylons are angled not flat as I thought they may be but don't capture the double angle of the pic posted above by Blackjet

I can feel a super to standard conversion coming on at some point in the not too distant future too!

My new favourite plastic kit!!

Cheers,

Ian

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  • 3 weeks later...

Flickr photo album for the Roden Super VC10 :-

https://www.flickr.com/photos/56210108@N04/albums/72157667297080331

BZN20's info above is real good - only bit I disagree with is that there is no titanium in the beaver tails, They were a VAAS stainless steel spec. as originally built.

Not that this matters for modelling of course !

Edited by XV104
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Hi XV104. The first RAF Ten I flew on in March 72! The beavers I was involved with were C.Mk 1s and K2s ,not much BTW, were Ti . We were warned not to use Pencils and spirit pens/fibre pens etc.for marking out. Couldn't use certain cleaners/chemicals for cleaning. They cause cracks in Ti when its been heated,doesn't happen with SS . The BAe blokes were forever shouting ******* Titanium ! Either way the beavers were a pain,more MODs than just about anything else on the jet. Add complete redesigns on top for complete confusion.

Never heard of VAAS though. Does that stand for Vickers Armstrong Aircraft or Aviation Steel ? Guessing a bit there incase you hadn't noticed.You're right about not needing all this info for a model ! Ti models......RUNAWAY ! :winkgrin:

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