Gremlin56 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Happy new year Ced, you have the air pressure cranked up too high methinks. As Jaime said: practice on some scrap before going for the real thing. Looking good so far, very unusual aircraft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTiger66 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Hi Ced, I'm in the chicken coup with Alex.... I have some lovely kits in the stash that I simply daren't start because of the need to mottle! My hands, with age are an increasingly wobbly pair of appendages (fnar), I know too wobbly to freehand mottle. I admire your bravery here and a flying start has been made! I haven't tried them, but I wondered if the photo etch mottle/blotch masks are helpful? I wouldn't want to recommend something I haven't tried, but it seems the mottle for this plane looks close to a 'blotch mask' I've seen. It's not often I'm able to suggest appropriately sized blotch creators for someone! Holding my breath for the next instalment, onwards and upwards Ced (after a glass of red stuff) Nail biting stage.... Tony 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 And it started so well. You're a brave man mottling that close to an unmasked hard edged demarcation, I know what would happen if I tried it. Better luck next time. Cheers John Thanks John With the 0.2mm nozzle there's only a very small area that's covered, close up, and I got even braver today! Oh yes... That's good for a first attempt using an airbrush Ced. A couple of glasses of the red stuff now and back to it. Thanks John Don't tempt me! Hi Ced, I don't use your paint make, only Gunze and Tamiya. For these I thin at 75% thinner / 25% paint and reduce the pressure to 10 psi and limit the volume as much as possible without clogging the airbrush. Some test runs are done to ensure a proper mottling can be achieved before committing to the real thing. Don't loose your spirits with your first attempt. Just don't feel pressed to rush to the model. Test on a dummy until you get the hang of it. Cheers Jaime Thanks Jaime, great advice. Happy New Year Regarding the blobs: Yeowch! More reasons (among many) that I avoid airbrushes* like the Plague. Although I do admit that ABs are the only way to go for mottling/soft-edges. As the scale decreases, however, "scale effect" (to only slightly abuse the term), is going to make the soft edges sharper - cf. the wavy demarcation line? - so maybe you could use a brush on 'em . I know I would, chicken that I am (waark, chook chook)... Cheers, Alex. *And Vallejo et alia paints... Thanks Alex - a great 'plan B' and I've thought about opting for this all day... but I didn't want to be beaten! Happy new year Ced, you have the air pressure cranked up too high methinks. As Jaime said: practice on some scrap before going for the real thing. Looking good so far, very unusual aircraft. Happy New Year to you too, oh Mottling Master (have a look at Julian's JU88 - I know it's BIG but it still counts!) I tried lower pressure today (see below). Hi Ced, I'm in the chicken coup with Alex.... I have some lovely kits in the stash that I simply daren't start because of the need to mottle! My hands, with age are an increasingly wobbly pair of appendages (fnar), I know too wobbly to freehand mottle. I admire your bravery here and a flying start has been made! I haven't tried them, but I wondered if the photo etch mottle/blotch masks are helpful? I wouldn't want to recommend something I haven't tried, but it seems the mottle for this plane looks close to a 'blotch mask' I've seen. It's not often I'm able to suggest appropriately sized blotch creators for someone! Holding my breath for the next instalment, onwards and upwards Ced (after a glass of red stuff) Nail biting stage.... Tony Thanks Tony Wobbly appendages? I know what you mean and I have to wait until I have fairly steady hands for this sort of thing - the red stuff only helps afterwards! I think I should have used Alex's plan B. Despite flow improver (about 10%) and winding down to 5psi I still had a bit of trouble. Opening the nozzle a tiny amount and then wobbling around started OK but then the nozzle would start blocking (??) and I had to clear it by opening up the flow on some paper towel. I sprayed the brownish first and got too confident at the end where the results were OK. Despite testing the green it didn't flow in the same way and I'm less happy with the results here: Untitled by Ced Bufton, on Flickr You can see how the brown improved by the time I got to the tail and how over-confident I got with the green. Splodge rather than blob. Rats. So it's out with the brush for a bit of touching up. After some red stuff tonight! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob85 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Did you do the ones nearer the tail from further away?? It looks that way and they look the best of the bunch! I have never 'mottled' before... However I will need to learn this year as I have a number of baddies lined up! Rob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Something a bit different, a somehwat unusual design and it's always good to try out new techniques! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darby Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 How on earth did that privet start growing in your nozzle? Don't give up on it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto21 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I think it actually looks quite cool! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin56 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 You are getting there Ced, towards the tail the "spiders" are getting smaller or disappearing. Grab a sheet of paper and do some practicing, that's what I did at first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Laidlaw Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Wow, you are a brave man attempting mottle with VMA! I love the paint, but it's as finicky as all buggery. Try (if you get the chance, and if you have the inclination, of course) thinning with Vallejo Airbrush Cleaner... it's the only stuff I've found can cope with tip-drying when using Xtracrlix, and I use it as a matter of course with VMA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrlx Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Brave attempt, Ced! I find that one should spray test for a while until the mix starts to come out properly. I always mix in the airbrush cup, thinner first followed by paint, and the first attempts always come out very thin (just clear thinner, even) . After a while, the mixed stuff reaches the nozzle and I get a good misty coverage, appropriate for mottling. Maybe I should mix outside of the cup and then pour the mix in the cup, but I'm too lazy... Cheers Jaime 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 Did you do the ones nearer the tail from further away?? It looks that way and they look the best of the bunch! I have never 'mottled' before... However I will need to learn this year as I have a number of baddies lined up! Rob Hi Rob I started at the foot port side and worked my way around. I'm pretty convinced the problem is the Vallejo Model Air being a bit inconsistent, although of course bad workmen... Something a bit different, a somehwat unusual design and it's always good to try out new techniques! Hi Flashgun and welcome How on earth did that privet start growing in your nozzle? Don't give up on it. Aerial seed transfer? I shall persevere! I think it actually looks quite cool! Thanks Matt You are getting there Ced, towards the tail the "spiders" are getting smaller or disappearing. Grab a sheet of paper and do some practicing, that's what I did at first. Thanks Julian I did practice first, honestly, but the nozzle blocking and clearing meant that the flow as always 'dodgy' Wow, you are a brave man attempting mottle with VMA! I love the paint, but it's as finicky as all buggery. Try (if you get the chance, and if you have the inclination, of course) thinning with Vallejo Airbrush Cleaner... it's the only stuff I've found can cope with tip-drying when using Xtracrlix, and I use it as a matter of course with VMA. Thanks John I think you're right - the VMA is too 'finicky' for precise work like this. Rats. Brave attempt, Ced! I find that one should spray test for a while until the mix starts to come out properly. I always mix in the airbrush cup, thinner first followed by paint, and the first attempts always come out very thin (just clear thinner, even) . After a while, the mixed stuff reaches the nozzle and I get a good misty coverage, appropriate for mottling. Maybe I should mix outside of the cup and then pour the mix in the cup, but I'm too lazy... Cheers Jaime Thanks Jaime I think, as John L suggests, that the VMA is a bit too inconsistent for this sort of job - continual blocking just makes it a pain. So PLAN B as suggested by Alex - blob it on with a brush. Firstly I needed to clean up a bit with Micromesh: Micromesh out by Ced Bufton, on Flickr Then blobbed on with a medium round brush, finally tidying up with a bit of grey where needed. I'm going to call this a day: I've also had to replace the pitot with some brass tube as I eventually knocked it off - you knew I would didn't you? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordfunker Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Nice save Ced! Mottling is one of those things that just takes lots of practise. Ask me how I know, and I'm still not good at it! Karl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookenbacher Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Nice save Ced! Mottling looks difficult alright. Has anyone here ever tried using ink rather than paint? I used white ink to weather an NMF Mustang, and it was very forgiving, and any mistakes were easily removed until varnished. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles87 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I find it hard enough in 1/32, and try to avoid it in 1/48, so in 1/72 I think you're ' blob it on ' method is as good as any. Do you have a stipple brush? I made one some time ago by getting a cheap round brush with stiff bristles and cutting it down then using it almost dry, to let the paint build up, The results were variable, but not too bad when not studied too closely, like in your last photo. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTiger66 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 That looks good Ced. I would guess in the field mottling was far from an exact science; I'm sure their paint and spray equipment was very variable! Your P.1099 suddenly stopped looking like a prototype, methinks it needs a Me. 163 and 262 for friendship now... Big thumbs up Tony 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 Nice save Ced! Mottling is one of those things that just takes lots of practise. Ask me how I know, and I'm still not good at it! Karl Thanks Karl Nice save Ced! Mottling looks difficult alright. Has anyone here ever tried using ink rather than paint? I used white ink to weather an NMF Mustang, and it was very forgiving, and any mistakes were easily removed until varnished. Hi Cookie. Ink? I find it hard enough in 1/32, and try to avoid it in 1/48, so in 1/72 I think you're ' blob it on ' method is as good as any. Do you have a stipple brush? I made one some time ago by getting a cheap round brush with stiff bristles and cutting it down then using it almost dry, to let the paint build up, The results were variable, but not too bad when not studied too closely, like in your last photo. John Thanks John! I've used the cut-off brush method before (see below) for the 'fuzzy edge' mottling and it's easier IMHO - this one's sort of blobs, hence the attempts at the 'new' method. Just in case you thought I was taking a distance shot to hide the mess, here's a close up (of the mess) just for you Untitled by Ced Bufton, on Flickr You probably need to squint a bit to get the full effect! That looks good Ced. I would guess in the field mottling was far from an exact science; I'm sure their paint and spray equipment was very variable! Your P.1099 suddenly stopped looking like a prototype, methinks it needs a Me. 163 and 262 for friendship now... Big thumbs up Tony Thanks Tony, very kind I already have their friends on the ceiling... got the step ladder out just for you (but had to take down the 163 to get a decent shot) Untitled by Ced Bufton, on Flickr Both were mottled using a cut-off brush and I'm fairly happy with that technique. Transfers next - I'm not going to do my 'usual' coat of Klear this time to see if it makes a difference. Fingers crossed. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrlx Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hi Ced, It's great you found a solution. Anyway, it's a What-if, so you are free to camouflage it as you like By the way, the 262 and the163 look great! Cheers Jaime 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Laidlaw Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Excellent save there - nicely done, sir! And you have a great deal more patience than me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTiger66 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 The 163 and 262 are lovely models with great mottling and camouflage. Thank you for sharing and taking the pictures The P.1099 is going to be in good company Ced 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob85 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Great mottling ced looking very nice! The other two look excellent work, well done getting that done with a brush Rob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookenbacher Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Excellent save Ced, and another cool addition to your ceiling. I think you need another Meteor or a P-80 now, to chase it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 No post yesterday, sorry guys, the transfers are... well... see below. Hi Ced, It's great you found a solution. Anyway, it's a What-if, so you are free to camouflage it as you like By the way, the 262 and the163 look great! Cheers Jaime Thanks Jaime Excellent save there - nicely done, sir! And you have a great deal more patience than me Thanks John - Not sure about patient... but I will admit to being stubborn sometimes The 163 and 262 are lovely models with great mottling and camouflage. Thank you for sharing and taking the pictures The P.1099 is going to be in good company Ced Thanks Tony I did both some time ago (before I started on BM IIRC), the 163 benefitting from a bit of practice. Great mottling ced looking very nice! The other two look excellent work, well done getting that done with a brushRob Thanks Rob Excellent save Ced, and another cool addition to your ceiling. I think you need another Meteor or a P-80 now, to chase it! Thanks Cookie - another Meteor (Nooooooo!) but a P-80 might squeeze into 'my period' and I do like the look of them... I think I'll have a mooch on BM and see which kits people recommend. So yesterday I started applying the transfers, as usual doing the big ones on the wings first. Then I looked at the rest and thought hmmm, perhaps I'll wait until I have a little more patience: Tiny tiny by Ced Bufton, on Flickr Look at those, gulp, thin red walkways and tiny tiny stencils... I think I'll use my 'if you can't read it, bin it' approach. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philp Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Coming along nicely Ced. Regarding decals (yes, I am still old school) the Dakota I am working on is going to help me out. It depicts a plane that was overpainted and according to the pics, none of the stencils were reapplied so a couple of main markings and I am finished. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beard Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 That's a lot of small transfers, I think you're right 'if you can't read it, bin it' (although I've started to use a hand lens to see if I can read the small ones on Airfix Spitfires). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar side Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Looking good CedB Dug mine out today and remembered that I not only deleted the rear guns but the nose gun - the 'A' type nose called on this one. Here is a pic with a strange assortment of other unusual planes of the era: Also did the mottling with a cut off brush 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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