Planebuilder62 Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Hi there Back around 1963, the RAF did some incetion trials between an EE Lightning and a PR XIX Spitfire. Does anyone know which colour scheme as applied to the Spitfire? Regards Toby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomBigStu Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) high speed silver with black anti glare panel most likely EDIT: Ignore, in this case most likely was totally wrong Edited December 11, 2015 by PhantomBigStu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darby Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) It may have been a PRXIX. I read a similar thing a while ago to see how Lightnings would cope against P51's in Indonesia or somewhere. Apparently the Spit did quite well. edit; just seen PRXIX in original thread. Ooops, silly me. Edited December 11, 2015 by Darby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flankerman Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 IIRC the Lightning had great difficulty downing the Spit - the IR missiles couldn't aquire it and the Lightning couldn't get in a position to use its cannon. However, the Lightning could break combat at will, no way for the Spit to down the Lighning. The method arrived at for the Lighning the cope with the Spit (and, presumably the Indonesian P-51?) was to get under the Spit and accelerate and climb using afterburner immediately in front of it to 'topple' the Spitfire in the jet wash. I suppose the Spit could have just turned inside the Lightning - until it (the Lightning) ran out of fuel...... At least that's what I remember reading, many years ago. Ken 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 There is a picture of the Lightning and Spit in the book 'Spitfire' by Alfred Price. I'm away from my references at the mo but I'm sure it's one of the three 19's that ended up with BOBMF. Trevor 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJP Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) It's PS853 you want and the story is told in Spitfire At War. PS853 was with the Central Fighter Establishment at Binbrook, intended as a gate guardian but maintained airworthy instead. When the Indonesian confrontation brewed up the question of meeting Indonesian Mustangs with Lightnings arose. The Spitfire was used in the trials in 1962. A googling reveals PS853 in Dark Earth / Dark Green with type D roundels and flash, fuselage serial was grey. Red spinner with white backplate. Light undersides but not sure of the colour. Type D roundels and black serials underwing. Edited December 11, 2015 by RJP 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 This is how PS853 looked like in those days http://www.airteamimages.com/supermarine-spitfire_PS853_united-kingdom---royal-air-force_99167_large.html The picture above was taken in 1962, the trials occured in 1963. The picture shown in Price's "The Spitfire Story" taken at CFE show the same scheme as above. The picture I mentioned can be seen on this web page that also tells the story of the involvment of PS853 in the simulated combats with the Lightning https://defenceoftherealm.wordpress.com/2014/12/11/the-spitfire-the-lightning-how-two-british-icons-met-in-simulated-combat/ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Interesting stuff, Giorgio. Looks like a yellow spinner, though, in the lower pic of PS853 from your second link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike N Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Very interesting discussion, and something I was wondering about for one of my Spitfire XIX kits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedders Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 An excellent reference for this scheme is here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/64209520@N05/8054042898/ Justin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 never heard of this.......how cool! imagine that a high tech fighterplane having to combat a WW2 relic....did it actually happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 never heard of this.......how cool! imagine that a high tech fighterplane having to combat a WW2 relic....did it actually happen? Never with a performance difference like the one between a Lightning and a Spitfire but there have been several clashes between what were then modern combat jets and WW2 veterans in Korea and in other wars. And while there have been a few victories for the prop fighters, generally the jets came on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Interesting stuff, Giorgio. Looks like a yellow spinner, though, in the lower pic of PS853 from your second link. The spinner is sure not red, yellow is a good bet, guess that this detail changed over time. As PS853 was in the camo scheme for quite a long time it would be useful to know when that picture was taken. I've seen another picture of her with a light spinner, unfortunately the caption did not report the date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Yeah...I have the same problem trying to decipher the spinner colours on THUM Flt Spitfires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dambuster Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) PS853 moved to Historic Aircraft Flight in 1957, painted dk green, dk earth, sky under with a light spinner - probably sky, black serial and D-type roundels. Moved to Central Fighter Establishment in Apr 1958 as gate guard, but was kept flying in the same scheme with fuselage titles. Overhauled in 1961 and returned to CFE in the Nov 62 in the same scheme but with red spinner with white backplate, white serial and no fuselage titles. This is how it was flown against the Lightning in 1963. By 1966 it transferred to the BBMF and roundels had been changed to represent the wartime type, a sky tail band was added, yellow wing leading edges, serial became black and the white backplate had been painted red. Peter Edited December 15, 2015 by dambuster 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Thanks Peter, this clears everything. So the light spinner was before it was painted red. IIRC PS853 also had a light spinner when wearing the PRU blue scheme with THUM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dambuster Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Thanks Peter, this clears everything. So the light spinner was before it was painted red. IIRC PS853 also had a light spinner when wearing the PRU blue scheme with THUM Agree, that's what the photos show. It is my assumption that the spinner is probably sky when the aircraft was first camouflaged, as it doesn't look quite as bright as the THUM photos. I should have said that the info came from 'Spitfire Survivors' Vol 2 which shows the different schemes in photos. Peter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3xarmourer Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Hi, I was station flight armourer at CFE West Raynham through the summer of 1962. PS853 was on strength and flown regularly by Flt Lt Sollit (OC Stn Flight) and Grp Capt Crowley Milling throughout that period.We moved to Binbrook autumn 1962 where PS853 continued to fly. I was posted to Tengah Jan 63. Sorry I can't remember the colour scheme. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike N Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Does anyone have details of the Lightning used in the trials? (The photos in the links show two different Lightnings posing beside the Spitfire, so maybe one or both were taken at open days or for publicity purposes?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudioN Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 One is an AFDU F Mk. 3, the other is a 145 Sqn./226 OCU F. Mk. 1. I'd go with the first. HTH Claudio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfqweofekwpeweiop4 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 On 15/12/2015 at 9:15 AM, ozothenutter said: never heard of this.......how cool! imagine that a high tech fighterplane having to combat a WW2 relic....did it actually happen? A Skyraider downed a MiG-17 in the Vietnam war, so I've heard. Apparently the MiG-17 flew head on towards a pair of Skyraiders who just let rip with their 20mm cannons and nailed the Mig. thanks Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 11 hours ago, Mikemx said: A Skyraider downed a MiG-17 in the Vietnam war, so I've heard. Apparently the MiG-17 flew head on towards a pair of Skyraiders who just let rip with their 20mm cannons and nailed the Mig. Also, I seem to recall Tomcats downing some Zero's in a documentary called ""The Final Countdown"". Cheers, Andre 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat C Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 4 hours ago, Hook said: Also, I seem to recall Tomcats downing some Zero's in a documentary called ""The Final Countdown"". Cheers, Andre Yes, although when I saw the Zero's were wearing historically inaccurate markings the whole film ceased to have any believability..... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 ... especially given their T-6 origins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike N Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 On 29/01/2017 at 8:26 PM, ClaudioN said: One is an AFDU F Mk. 3, the other is a 145 Sqn./226 OCU F. Mk. 1. I'd go with the first. Thanks Claudio, I agree. The AFDU Lightning photo looks like it could've been taken during the trials, judging by the personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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