Markings for the Airfix Heinkel 111

[AMStreet]

I have got to the stage were I am thinking about the markings to be applied to the Heinkel 111 I am doing at the moment, and I have hit a bit of a show-stopper.

The transfers supplied with the kit and the after-market Xtradecal set I also bought do not match. The crosses are completely different sizes on the two sheets. The Airfix ones are small and the Xtradecal ones are much larger. Neither look right to me and to add to the confusion those on my Italeri Heinkel are different again!

Does anyone have any idea if either set is right?

Thanks.

[Graham Boak]

I was expecting someone with better information would answer, but as they haven't, here goes with a starter... The crosses did vary in size with time, and not having the kit you mention I can't comment directly as to whether they are convincing or not. There was a period in late 1939 when the crosses were very large indeed - sometimes worn alongside the much smaller earlier ones. Then they reduced to a more restrained size. I would however expect both the recent Airfix markings and the Xtracolour to be correct - for the example featured. You don't help us much there: I presume that you have the He111P but just which markings are provided in the kit? Just how large (in mm) are the ones you have? The Italeri kit (although there are more than one) is of the much later He111H-6.

[Touvdal]

It is difficult to say, as the cross size could differ. always get a photo of the plane your making.

But if your making the KG4, that has been restored in norway i think that you can relie on the info in the kit, even that one shall seldom relie on retored a/c, but i think that the norwigians has been very tru to the original.

here af few links,

https://ktsorens.tihlde.org/flyvrak/digervarden.html

http://jonkblogg.blogspot.dk/2015/05/hohenhausen-lesja-alfaset-en-liten.html

cheers

Jes

[AMStreet]

Graham,

Yes it is the P that I am making.

The dimensions of the markings are as follows:

Upper wing

Airfix 14mm

Xtradecal 17mm

Lower wing

Airfix 28.5mm

Xtradecal 35mm

Fuselage

Airfix 14mm

Xtradecal 20mm

There's no hakenkreuz on the Airfix sheet, the Xtradecal one is 11mm across the flats. A Techmod sheet I have gives a size of 9mm AF.

Unit codes

Airfix 8mm

xtradecal 10mm

It was the unit codes that first made me think about the size difference. they were so different one from the other that I took a look at the crosses etc. Everything on the Xtradecal sheet is so much larger than on the Airfix one. Hence my original post.

I'm going to finish the model as S7+HA of StG 3 in North Africa colours. As this A/C was used in 1941 I suppose that the markings could well have changed from those used in 1940 but the difference is so great it just had me worried that something may not be quite right.

Apologies for the lack of information in my original post. I hope that this one will help.

Edited December 12, 2015 by AMStreet

[Graham Boak]

According to Michael Ullman's book, the He111 carried upperwing crosses of 1000mm, below wing of 2000mm, Fuselage crosses were 1800mm later 1400mm, the swastika 710mm later 650mm.

This suggests that the Airfix examples are generally closest, but this does not refer to specific dates so probably excludes the smaller prewar examples carried nearer the wingtips, and the very large ones introduced at (or near) the outbreak of the war. I suspect that the very large underwing crosses from Xtradecal are the latter; these appear to have survived longer under the wing than above. Some variation appears to have existed in mid-1940, presumably mainly on examples which had been repainted in the field.

[AMStreet]

Graham,

Thanks for that. The references I have do not give the actual dimensions so I was in a poor position to see if the crosses were right. Looking at the sizes, it does look as if the 2:1 ratios are about right for the upper to lower crosses.

From what you have said I think that I will mix and match. Keep the Airfix crosses and use the Xtradecal codes.

It's a pity that no-one seems to do Luftwaffe code letters any more, unlike those for the RAF. I do have some ancient Microscale letters and numbers but they are the wrong size.

There is, I think, a market for such things, I have some Bf109s just aching for someone to produce a set or two of coloured numbers to go with all the Gruppe and Staffel badges I have.

Thanks again.

Edited December 12, 2015 by AMStreet