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An Albert's Tale (or four, or even five)..... Actually a Beady Eyed Herky Debs Albert Epic...

Ascoteer

By Ascoteer
in Work in Progress - Aircraft

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Glen Obsessed Member

Glen

Posted
Posted

Maintain 250 kts to the Outer Marker. If unable contact Rio Approach before requesting ILS.

= go around!

I don't know of any big aeroplane that could manage that with about 8 miles to run. We have to be stable (fully configured and at or close to approach speed at 1000') - there was no stable approach policy in the RAF when I was there so idle power to the threshold was acceptable especially if you have instant power available as on the Herc. There was more chance of making it but it would be 'interesting'.

I remember years ago when the 757 was classed as a medium aircraft but a heavy for wake. We treat it as a medium now (no idea what changed) although ATC often ask if we have any restrictions. About 20 years ago we were downwind for Lanzarote when ATc asked us if we could fly an extended final and look for a Cessna in the sea. It was on a round the island sightseeing tour and got too close to an Air 2000 757. There was absolutely nothing to be seen sadly. The airfield closed after we landed and the SAR helicopter arrived to search.

Heathrow uses time based separation on approach now rather than distance which increases the landing rate on windy days as it accounts for the lower ground speeds when there is a strong headwind. Apparently the computer generates blips on the radar screen and ATC gives us speed instructions to match the blips progress down the approach. It is strange seeing the preceding aircraft closer than normal ahead but seems to work.

The A380 is the fun one for wake - we need an extra couple of miles behind one but the hole it leaves in the sky is certainly noticeable even with the increased gap!

Cheers

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Miggers Very Obsessed Member

Miggers

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Posted (edited)

Good Lord,I know some Ruski machinery is best described as "agricultural",but I've seen big John Deere's

mauling with something on the PTO make less smoke than that Albertsonov :blink: .

Didn't know they were powered by industrial diesels :lol: :lol:

Great dits real flying type peeps,keep'em coming.

Edited by Miggers
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Aeronut Very Obsessed Member

Aeronut

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Hmmm...

FIH_zpslkge50y4.jpg

Aside from the Red Book there was a Blue Book, a Green Book and a Brown Book.

I'd guess you were familiar with the Blue Book (what with all those Bardufoss dets we took the Jag Force to) and the Greeen Book (what with your photo' of Athens) but I doubt Coltishall will have ever stocked the Brown Book.

I'm guessing for most dets you had a tanker to sort out all the boring en route stuff for you.

All accessed these days via an i-Pad... Sorry I mean an Electronic Flight Bag.

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perdu Blabber Mouth

perdu

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Sometimes I feel like a relic of a bygone age...

I'd offer you me but I'm well out of service date now

Anybody got a serviceable relic for Debs?

Anyone?

;)

Ah sorry, I fell for a little terminological inexactitude

:(

But you Debs?

No way skipper

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Fritag Very Obsessed Member

Fritag

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hmmm...

FIH_zpslkge50y4.jpg

Aside from the Red Book there was a Blue Book, a Green Book and a Brown Book.

I'd guess you were familiar with the Blue Book (what with all those Bardufoss dets we took the Jag Force to) and the Greeen Book (what with your photo' of Athens) but I doubt Coltishall will have ever stocked the Brown Book.

I'm guessing for most dets you had a tanker to sort out all the boring en route stuff for you.

I'm dredging the outer reaches of memory here - so - step by step:

1. I remember we carried one or two books shoved into the bottom pockets of the G suit and generally forgotten about (Good start). I'm pretty sure it was two books.

2. One of them was definitely the Red Book - which IIRC is or was the British Isles Supplement.

3. I now have a horrible creeping feeling that the other one may in fact have been the yellow book I previously denied any knowledge of.

This depends (1) on confirmation that the yellow book was pocket size like the red book and (2) that the blue and green book were other en route sups like the red book.

That would mean that:

1. Whilst we sat on the ground at Athens wondering how long to leave it before taking off behind a 747 and

2. patted ourselves on the back for being prudent and taking off as singletons

3. we did in fact have 5 books in 4 aircraft which had we bothered to take them out of our G suit pockets would have told us the answer.

This state of affairs does not in fact surprise me - I am not sure that any of us would actually have thought about wake turbulence since BFTS (save for the odd incidences of getting in the wrong place behind a tanker and getting spat out one way or t'other to the amusements of one's pals) - as unlike the lucky Albert drivers of this world we didn't generally get out and about much mixing with strange and exotic aircraft at strange and exotic locations and talking to strange and exotic controllers. We led a sheltered existence you see.

And yes - whenever we went anywhere with a tanker we left it to them to sort out there en-route stuff.........They were good at it - and knew how to write signals and stuff :)

Edited by Fritag
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Glen Obsessed Member

Glen

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The yellow book was the same size as the red one and basically covered all the 'general' bits. The other coloured supplements were the same format as the red one and just did other parts of the world. When I was QFIing on the Bulldog the 2 books were kept in the glovebox in the centre console but it was so small that it was almost impossible to get them out again so I carried my own in my bottom pockets although I don't ever remember referring to them!! I always carried a set of approach plates for the local diversions as they were kept with the books and it was very easy to end up with a handful of shredded paper as you ripped them out of the console. Not a lot of use puzzling them back together as you stumbled round IMC with Liverpool Approach telling you it had lost you on radar in the rain clutter.

There is generally no wake vortex requirement behind a landing aircraft if you are taking off. The vortex is lift induced so it stops the moment the aircraft touches down. As long as you are not going to be airborne before it's touchdown point then there shouldn't be a problem. I am sure a Jag at Athens in in the heat is not going to be airborne before the touchdown zone!! You did the right thing being prudent tho - a 747 weighs about 250 tonnes on landing and creates a lot of dirty air so if there is any doubt stay out of the way....

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RocketSurgeon Established Member

RocketSurgeon

Posted
Posted

I decided a couple of weeks ago that I should build an L-100. I'm glad I came across this thread. Lots of great information here, not to mention the cool anecdotes.

If anyone has a surplus c-130 kit, please let me know. :)

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RocketSurgeon Established Member

RocketSurgeon

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Thank you Ascoteer, I already know all that. :)


I definately want to build a dash thirty, might even end up with a C-130H-30. It depends on which operator I pick at the end (I will probably need custom decals).


Lynden air operates both short and long sponson variants:



Draw decal has a sheet for these.


I really like the clean, all white UAE -30's:




Algerian H-30's are my favorite among the military versions:




And there are about a hundred more beautiful liveries to choose from...


I'll use the Flightpath plug set and probably their engines too, but first I need to find a reasonably priced base kit. I'm not exactly happy about having to pay 50+ usd for a kit with raised panel lines.


Sorry for the highjack.

Edited by N5016R
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Brandy Completely Obsessed Member

Brandy

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"Actually Flight Plans were not tres dificile at least not ICAO ones. US Internal Flight Plans were a different boiler of pescatorean delights! (US Flight Plans are unlike anyone else's)."

I still have a huge problem with ICAO flight plans, so much unnecessary information!

But then apart from my glider course at RAF Newton with the ATC, all my flying has been in the US.... my claim to fame is still that I soloed after only 3 hours and landed with a dead engine.....

Ian

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foresterab Established Member

foresterab

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Posted

Remember this?

Definitely looks like Lake Louise, Alberta and after a google check it looks like the Banff Springs Hotel.

Not sure about the ski jump but might have been tied to the 1988 Calgary Olympics.

Now I know what the C-130's are doing when they fly overhead...they're chasing tourists.

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RocketSurgeon Established Member

RocketSurgeon

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No worries Peter, I'm always happy to talk about Albert and how to build him. :)

C-130 kit prices on E-bay are mental ATM.

I'd suggest picking up an Italeri C-130J (it isn't a J it's the original kit with an extra sprue of {wrong} engines and props) - for some reason they are cheaper than the Italeri E/H .

There's also the new Academy rebox of the old Italeri H. They are a bit cheaper, but still... I'll have to look around and see what I can find.

Thank you again for the tips.

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