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1/72 McDD F-4 C Phantom II, Hasegawa/Monogram kitbash - COMPLETED!


giemme

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Nice work Giorgio, coming along really well!

Those Aires exhausts are stunning - I think I'd best raid the piggy bank & get some bought for the Hase Tooms I have in stock- I'll never be able to look at the kit parts again without thinking how rubbish they are!!

Keith

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Great progress, the bird is really taking shape now!

The parts breakdown reminds me of my Fujimi British Phantom builds.

Cheers

Jaime

Thanks Jaime! :thumbsup: As for the parts breakdown, I believe Gene has built some Fujimi kits as well, and so has Phantom61, so they can confirm if it is similar to the Hasegawa one

Giorgio, I believe that there are features that need removing, in particular the two bumps under the fuselage right ahead of the wing leading edges. Gene will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the F-4C only had a long chord blade antenna on the left (that may be what hasegawa wanted to represent with the long and low bump) and nothing on the right (the bump in the Hase kit is another ECM antenna used on the J)

Looking at these pictures (coming from primeportal.net) from an F-4c walkaround, I think you're absolutely right:

port side, right under the intake (I'll probably have to modify the kit one or scratch build a better version)

f-4c_05_of_37.jpg

starboard side, same position, no antenna:

f-4c_07_of_37.jpg

Good morning Giemme.

That's looking really good.

You'll find that any surplus solder can be filed back with a good needle file without compromising the strength...........hopefully!

Thanks Blogs :thumbsup: I did try filing back the excess solder with a needle file (but no pics), and even with a sanding disk mounted on my Dremel; it actually held up pretty well.

Nice work Giorgio, coming along really well!

Those Aires exhausts are stunning - I think I'd best raid the piggy bank & get some bought for the Hase Tooms I have in stock- I'll never be able to look at the kit parts again without thinking how rubbish they are!!

Keith

Thanks Keith :thumbsup: Yes, the kit exhausts are quite puny, even if you don't compare them to the superb Aires rendition. In my F-4J build I used the kit ones, detailing them a bit with a DIY method suggested by Gene, see here

This time, I was lucky enough to find the Aires ones at a cheap-ish price, so it was a no-brainer.

Looking superb Giemme, coming together nicely. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Simon.

Cheers Simon, thanks

Ciao

Edited by giemme
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Giorgio,

Some nice work going on here. :) Good luck on the soldering! Don't set anything on fire! :jump_fire:

And if the soldering doesn't work out, try building it out of plastic rod and some Tenax.

Gary

Edited by GAF
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I have some Aires Burner cans for my Fujimi FGR.2 phantom and I had do cut away some of the lower fuselage bracing to get them to fit. I also had to sand away a fair bit of the opening for the blow in doors to get them to fit so it's safe to say you'll have to do a bit of fettling to get them to fit.

I think the reason for this is the outside diameter is wider than the kit parts in order for the parts to be cast a little thicker so they are easier to cast and not too fragile. Hope this makes sense.

Mark

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Another question for Gene: the part indicated by the red circle, on the leading edge of both wings, was also on the F-4C?

24202940742_6d7d82b34e_b.jpg

At first, I thought it might be a tuning antenna for AIM-7s. But this thing appears in photos of some F-4Fs - so I guess not.

In some drawings in the Airtime Publishing book "Spirit in the Sky", this is described as a ranging radar. It certainly doesn't look be on all Phantoms. Its in photos of some RF-4Es, F-4Es, F-4EJs, F-4Fs and F-4Gs. It doesn't appear to be on all samples of these variants, or maybe it's just well hidden.

The AIRTime book shows this aperture in drawings of the F-4C and F-4D in the Phantom Variants section, but again, I don't see it in any of the photos. Okay, maybe if I stare very hard at the paintless F-4D on page 172 I can see it on the wing leading edge.

Sven

Old Viper Tester

Edited by Old Viper Tester
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Giorgio,

Some nice work going on here. :) Good luck on the soldering! Don't set anything on fire! :jump_fire:

:lol: I'll try not to! :coolio: Thanks for the appreciation and for the tip on using plastic rods :thumbsup:

I have some Aires Burner cans for my Fujimi FGR.2 phantom and I had do cut away some of the lower fuselage bracing to get them to fit. I also had to sand away a fair bit of the opening for the blow in doors to get them to fit so it's safe to say you'll have to do a bit of fettling to get them to fit.

I think the reason for this is the outside diameter is wider than the kit parts in order for the parts to be cast a little thicker so they are easier to cast and not too fragile. Hope this makes sense.

Mark

Mark, it makes perfectly sense, thank you. :thumbsup2: In fact, I wasn't checking my reference pictures when I dryfitted the burner cans, and looking back at them I saw they should go in a bit more, so some fettling is definitely needed.

Love the busy looking cockpit Giorgio :)

Cheers Steve, thanks :thumbsup:

At first, I thought it might be a tuning antenna for AIM-7s. But this thing appears in photos of some F-4Fs - so I guess not.

In some drawings in the Airtime Publishing book "Spirit in the Sky", this is described as a ranging radar. It certainly doesn't look be on all Phantoms. Its in photos of some RF-4Es, F-4Es, F-4EJs, F-4Fs and F-4Gs. It doesn't appear to be on all samples of these variants, or maybe it's just well hidden.

The AIRTime book shows this aperture in drawings of the F-4C and F-4D in the Phantom Variants section, but again, I don't see it in any of the photos. Okay, maybe if I stare very hard at the paintless F-4D on page 172 I can see it on the wing leading edge.

Sven

Old Viper Tester

Thanks Sven; I did check for some F-4C walkarounds, like this (again from primeportal.net):

f-4c_08_of_37.jpg

and I can't see that aperture either, so I think I'm safe saying it wasn't there on Sandy Bay-Bee, but I guess we'll have to wait for Gene's confirmation.

As a side note, on both the Hasegawa kits I had the chance to work so far, the top wing lines for that aperture don't match with the bottom ones, so correcting it is a bit of a pain ...

Ciao

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Giorgio,

Oh boy ... sorry you had all those fit problems with the lower wing - much more severe than "normal"!!!

A couple of things I thought I had indicated to help with the fit:

1. Do not glue the bottoms of the fuselage pieces together to allow some wiggle room fitting the fuselage sides to the wing roots.

2. Join the bottom fuselage front (wheel well piece) to the bottom wing before assembling the fuselage to the wings - that seam is much easier to get perfect this way than later.

3. Cut the sides of the rear fuselage bottom as shown so you can bend that rear portion to get a good fit to the bottom in that area (hand bend the plastic as necessary).

4. Fill in the small pieces (parts 15 and 16 that cover where the catapult hooks are on USN birds) BEFORE assembling top to bottom - that allows you to better position those loose fitting pieces from behind to make them flush.

5. Trim the fronts of the lower intake areas to accommodate the seamless intakes.

6. Trim the fuselage bottom piece as necessary to clear the length of the burner cans you are using - picture below shows Aires vice Hasegawa kit parts.

7. Yes, I should have indicated to cut off the USN antenna humps at the front of the wing bottoms. (I have no idea what that black "thingee" is in the photo you posted).

Wingsg%20Bottom_1477x1031.jpg

When you do assemble the fuselage top to the bottom piece, I heartily suggest you glue just one side of the front and let dry, then do the other side. That sequence will allow you to achieve a perfect fit requiring no sanding!! (trust me) In that regard, the picture below just has the parts taped/dry fitted - the seams do close up nicely.

Fuselage%20side_1688x1076.jpg

Whew - that's certainly enough for now ... :shutup: Have to catch up on the great posts here.

Gene

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Giorgio,

Oh boy ... sorry you had all those fit problems with the lower wing - much more severe than "normal"!!!

No worries Gene, it's still all dry-fit, some pieces are looser than what they actually will be once glued; that amplifies in some way the fit issues.

A couple of things I thought I had indicated to help with the fit:

1. Do not glue the bottoms of the fuselage pieces together to allow some wiggle room fitting the fuselage sides to the wing roots.

2. Join the bottom fuselage front (wheel well piece) to the bottom wing before assembling the fuselage to the wings - that seam is much easier to get perfect this way than later.

3. Cut the sides of the rear fuselage bottom as shown so you can bend that rear portion to get a good fit to the bottom in that area (hand bend the plastic as necessary).

4. Fill in the small pieces (parts 15 and 16 that cover where the catapult hooks are on USN birds) BEFORE assembling top to bottom - that allows you to better position those loose fitting pieces from behind to make them flush.

5. Trim the fronts of the lower intake areas to accommodate the seamless intakes.

6. Trim the fuselage bottom piece as necessary to clear the length of the burner cans you are using - picture below shows Aires vice Hasegawa kit parts.

7. Yes, I should have indicated to cut off the USN antenna humps at the front of the wing bottoms. (I have no idea what that black "thingee" is in the photo you posted).

What is new for me in the above list is point 2, 5 and 6, all the rest was clear or already done by you before sending me the kits :thumbsup2:

As for point 7, it might as well be possible that the red marks have come off upon my manipulation (some of the others have, so ... )

One more question, though, concerning point 2: what about the front wheel well top? I thought of only gluing the short back part to the bottom fuselage (see black circle in next pic), otherwise it wouldn't be possible to enlarge the "fork" made my the two side braces and make them fit flush with the upper fuselage part

24041099790_6ae00caa4d_b.jpg

once everything has set, I should also run some glue along the well top and the well sidewalls, to ensure a proper bond, but that doesn't sound like the right way to go :confused:

Another option would be to put a provisional spacer in between the "fork", so that I can glue in the top and set everything in a position that would later allow the bottom side parts to sit flush with the upper fuselage. Am i getting this completely wrong?

Thanks

Ciao

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... [the scribing on the wing leading edge] is described as a ranging radar.

As I (vaguely) recall, that was the cover for the radar ranging antenna for the air-to-ground capability introduced with the F-4D (not sure if it was also integrated with the new lead computing optical sight in the D). Would not be on a C model, which had "only" rudimentary air-to-ground and air-to-air capability. All bombing in the C was by using manual depression of the pipper - no computing sight. As much art as science!!!

Sorry I can't be more definite ... need an avionics guy for more detail

Gene K

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As I (vaguely) recall, that was the cover for the radar ranging antenna for the air-to-ground capability introduced with the F-4D (not sure if it was also integrated with the new lead computing optical sight in the D). Would not be on a C model...

Well, I'm glad to know it wasn't there on the C, so I only need to fill those lines.

But: what's a pipper then, please? :confused:

Edited by giemme
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... what's a pipper ...?

Sort of a "crosshair" - when you look ahead through the gunsight glass, you see a round red circle that is projected up from the gunsight unit. In the middle of that circle (the reticle) there's a red dot - that's the pipper that you place on your aim point. Couldn't find a Google picture, so here's a shot from a video game. :coolio:

Pipper%202.jpg

Gene K

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Great stuff, apart from the pleasure of seeing your build come together my 1/32 Phantom, when I build it will be an F-4C ( Scat XXVII ) so all this information will be very helpful.

Cheers

John

Thanks John :thumbsup: and I'm glad if this can be of any help for somebody

That looks fantastic and these gun pods are a must.

Cheers Bernd, thanks :thumbsup:

Last night I managed to do some butchery surgery on the kit, but first this:

24324287836_42983b78ef_c.jpg

I decided to go with Lifecolor paints, as they have all the matching FS colors needed for this kind of camouflage.

I removed the ejection marks from the front wheel bay top

23982684339_c67fd8e51c_c.jpg

this is going to need some additional cabling/piping :coolio: but I'm unsure if starting adding something right now or wait for when it will be in place, on top of the bottom fuselage piece - cabling/piping needed in that as well

I have then removed the USN humps from the lower wings

24324284356_0f02979188_b.jpg

In both cases, surgery operated with a mix of Dremel, scraping gizmo and regular sandpaper; on the lower wings, I also had to do some filling with PPP and CA

Closing panels positioned on the lower wings, with a blob of blue tack to hold them level

24054900930_d92cb55a0f_b.jpg

24242255522_a5cf4363d4_b.jpg

and then glued using Tamiya Green Cap; I left those setting overnight

24242253312_a1396b14b3_b.jpg

I'm not clear if those should show up like panels, or if I have to fill those lines. Any ideas?

Finally a bit more of surgery to make room for the Aires burner cans; dryfitting to determine the right amount of trimming

23722303814_2594054266_b.jpg

I used my Dremel with a sawing disc to remove the excess plastic, and a knife to refine it

23722302694_ee71f624ed_b.jpg

Another dryfit to check for clearance:

23722301764_d42001f6d6_b.jpg

That's it for the day, comments welcome

Ciao

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Re. the front wheel well, personally I find easier to start adding piping and other detail before assembling the top to the sides. Having the side parts handy is important to check for fit though!

I agree; my only concern is that I need to play with the side walls (see Gene's post #336) for a better fit with the upper fuselage; so I'm not sure what would be better, if adding the piping when everything is in the correct position or just do it on the separated pieces and leave some room for adjustments :confused: But I first need to figure how and when I'm going to glue in the wheel well top :frantic:

Ciao

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...what about the front wheel well top? I thought of only gluing the short back part to the bottom fuselage (see black circle in next pic), otherwise it wouldn't be possible to enlarge the "fork" made my the two side braces and make them fit flush with the upper fuselage part

Sorry, but I don't understand, especially about the "fork".

Gene K

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Sorry, but I don't understand, especially about the "fork".

Gene K

Sorry Gene, my poor English (or poor use of English terms). Here's a pic to describe what I mean:

24271856211_23b3c61114_b.jpg

So my doubt is: following your suggestion of gluing the bottom fuselage part (what I called "fork") one side per time, how am I gonna deal with the "wheel bay top"? If I glue it in advance, I'll prevent the possibility to spread the bottom part to align with the upper fuselage. Hence my idea of only gluing the segment in the black circle:

24041099790_6ae00caa4d_b.jpg

and glue the rest of the bay top once the bottom fuselage is in place and settled. Or, use a provisional spacer to set that "fork" at the right width, completely glue the top, etc

How does that sound?

TIA

Ciao

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On 1/13/2016 at 7:13 AM, giemme said:

. Hence my idea of only gluing the segment in the black circle:

OK .. I understand now about the "fork" (reminded me of your cooking hobby). I never thought about your clever idea of gluing just the back of the wheel well cover to allow some adjustment of the "tines of the fork" :shutup: ... will definitely have to give that a try. However, I was more concerned with perfectly lining up the top and bottom (fuselage sides) in that area so as to any eliminate sanding. The top fuselage piece usually bows in/out a little, so in the past, I'd add little tabs like this:

p10RVsuwf5Ms4IMdWZIFAku0-PfYGwBiRXNbVi0V

but I found that with a little pushing/prodding/gluing one side at a time, I could eliminated those tabs. At any rate, it's more effort with words than actually doing it (meaning we are probably making too much of this little item ... but useful if you're making more than a few of the Hasegawa Phantoms ... like me!!) :tapedshut:

Gene K

Edited by Gene K
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