1/72 McDD F-4 C Phantom II, Hasegawa/Monogram kitbash - COMPLETED!

[Fritag]

I'm an intake connoisseur now; and I pronounce those two to be just about perfect examples.........

I've yet to try this soldering malarky, which some of our brethren deploy with such noticeable skill. I guess I'll have to dabble sooner or later; but your difficulties make me think it'll be later rather than sooner

[giemme]

Nice work again Giemme, the pit looks quite neat

The intakes look sweet in their home.

As for the boarding steps, try again, or use the kit one`s, although they do look a bit heavy.

Simon.

Thanks mate! As for the ladder, I don't have a kit for that , only a picture of it so I'll have, one way or another, to scratch build it

I'm an intake connoisseur now; and I pronounce those two to be just about perfect examples.........

I've yet to try this soldering malarky, which some of our brethren deploy with such noticeable skill. I guess I'll have to dabble sooner or later; but your difficulties make me think it'll be later rather than sooner

Thanks Steve! And I'll keep you updated on my progress about soldering ... now I'm out to look for a good tutorial on the 'net

Ciao

[NontasB]

Very nice Giorgio!! The intakes with the fans look absolutely great!! Great work!!

Keep posting images!!

Regards,

Nontas

[Blogs On]

Hi Giemme,

Those intakes look splendid.

With regard to soldering, I am a bit of a beginner at it, but you have to be scrupulously clean on all the mating surfaces prior to application of the flux and solder. Also I notice you using dissimilar materials that could potentially have different heating and cooling rates and thus set up tension at the joints. If it's possible, could you make the uprights in copper too?

HTH

[Air-to-Air]

Giorgio, as regards camouflage extending into the intakes, this post by Scott Wilson (http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=224033&st=42) discusses identifying whether the camouflage is a few inches or a few feet inside the intakes.

Gene's recollection regarding the intake lip (wear?) and camouflage is vital. It's hard to tell from the photo of Sandy Bay-Bee (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234992986-172-mcdd-f-4-c-phantom-ii-hasegawamonogram-kitbash/) whether the second variable ramp is in the camouflage colour or it is the intake grey/white.

[giemme]

Very nice Giorgio!! The intakes with the fans look absolutely great!! Great work!!

Keep posting images!!

Regards,

Nontas

Cheers Nontas, thanks! How's your Phantom build going?

Hi Giemme,

Those intakes look splendid.

With regard to soldering, I am a bit of a beginner at it, but you have to be scrupulously clean on all the mating surfaces prior to application of the flux and solder. Also I notice you using dissimilar materials that could potentially have different heating and cooling rates and thus set up tension at the joints. If it's possible, could you make the uprights in copper too?

HTH

Thanks Blogs! As for the soldering, I should have mentioned I didn't use any flux (I told you I'm not good at it), and that could be part of the problem. Thanks for the heads up on different materials, I'll see if I can find suitable copper wire for the uprights (or steel wire for the steps: it looks like soldering holds up much better to it)

Giorgio, as regards camouflage extending into the intakes, this post by Scott Wilson (http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=224033&st=42) discusses identifying whether the camouflage is a few inches or a few feet inside the intakes.

Gene's recollection regarding the intake lip (wear?) and camouflage is vital. It's hard to tell from the photo of Sandy Bay-Bee (http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234992986-172-mcdd-f-4-c-phantom-ii-hasegawamonogram-kitbash/) whether the second variable ramp is in the camouflage colour or it is the intake grey/white.

Hi Rob, glad to hear from you! Thanks for the great link, another one that got instantly bookmarked! As for the intake painting, I would discard the "few feet inside" option, since Gene had already painted white both the second vari-ramp parts before sending me the kits. So, based on Scott's post, it would just be the case to determine if there was any paint lift off/chipping or the camo paint held up on Sandy Bay-Bee

Ciao

[PlaStix]

Lovely work Giemme. Hope you have a great weekend.

Kind regards,

Stix

[Gene K]

Quote

... should I paint the first part of the intakes with camo color? I saw some USAF F4s pictures in which it looks like the very first inches of them is painted, some others in which the intake lip is metallic (don't know if Coroguard or just a paint lift off)

Giorgio,

Yes, the first few inches of the intake insides (all around) were painted matching the outside camo color:

On the clip below you can also see the intake lips - where the paint is worn off (not painted). As you know, I hesitate to send you too many pictures showing weathering.

Note that inside the intake, the paint on the outer side matches up with the inner (flat) side ... does that make sense?

(I don't know what the stencils on the inside of the intakes read)

Gene K

Edited July 3, 2017 by Gene K

[giemme]

Lovely work Giemme. Hope you have a great weekend.

Kind regards,

Stix

Thanks Stix I hope you have a great WE too!

Giorgio,

Yes, the first few inches of the intake insides (all around) were painted matching the outside camo color:

Ok thanks, great pic! I thought the paint would stop on the first movable part of the vari-ramp, but from this it is clearly visible that it extends also a few inches down the second

On the clip below you can also see the intake lips - where the paint is worn off (not painted). As you know, I hesitate to send you too many pictures showing weathering.

But in this case, I already had that picture, and it's the one that made me wondering if the lips were coated with Coroguard or just worn off. A very light silver dry-brush will do, for this

Note that inside the intake, the paint on the outer side matches up with the inner (flat) side ... does that make sense?

(I don't know what the stencils on the inside of the intakes read)

It does make sense, perfectly clear. What is also clear is that I'm gonna have a hell of a time when I get to masking that area ...

(and I'm not going to put that stencil down the intake, no worries ... )

Speaking about paint: what are your choices in terms of colors for this kind of camo pattern? I read somewhere that for the underside Tamiya Sky Grey should be a good match (is it?), but for the top side?

Ciao

[Gene K]

I read somewhere that for the underside Tamiya Sky Grey should be a good match (is it?), but for the top side?

I'll leave that to the experts! This is just one page that shows the standard FS colors and gives some cross references. Here's another, but hopefully we'll get some Phantom modeler recommendations on the colors.

As for the camo pattern, as you can see, there were variations at Cam Rahn (and everywhere else). However, as specifically concerns SANDY-BAY-BEE, I'll try to put together a graphic, hopefully in time as you to start painting.

Gene K

[giemme]

Thanks Gene; I had already seen both the links you posted, I was anyway curious to know what you would use. My choice for colors would preferably be in the Tamiya range, although I might consider Lifecolor as well, given the rather easy airbrushing control I seem to get on them when using Future as a thinner.

As for the camo pattern, as you can see, there were variations at Cam Rahn (and everywhere else). However, as specifically concerns SANDY-BAY-BEE, I'll try to put together a graphic, hopefully in time as you to start painting.

That would be very nice (and I believe we have plenty of time for that ... )

Ciao

[Jessica]

Gene K, on 08 Jan 2016 - 04:18 AM, said:

Giorgio,

Yes, the first few inches of the intake insides (all around) were painted matching the outside camo color:

(I don't know what the stencils on the inside of the intakes read)

Gene K

Probably something like "You'd better not be standing this close when the engine is running."

[Giorgio N]

IMHO Tamiya's Sky Grey is too dark. Lifecolor's UA-021 is a better match, maybe even a bit too light but again IMHO it suits a 1/72 scale model better. As Gene's great pictures show well, FS 36622 is very light, like a dirty white, so much that the lower surfaces can look white in some pictures.

For the upper surfaces, I consider Testors Model Masters line the best accuracywise when it comes to FS matched modelling paints. Not sure if their acrylics are easy to find in Italy though, enamels should still be available.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Giorgio N

[giemme]

Thanks Giorgio ; I wasn't going to use Tamiya Sky Grey as is, not even as a base color. The idea would be to add some white for scale effect, and doing a post-shading with even more white added. Rather than an exact match, I was wondering if that color has the right hue for FS36622. But I'll have a look at Lifecolor UA-021 as well, thanks for the heads up.

As for the top colors, enamels are out of question, I'm not going to use them. Looks like I'll have to do a lot of paint mixing ... but that's what I've been doing for all the colors in my recent BF109 build, so no worries

Ciao

[Cookenbacher]

I vote for using Lifecolor 36622 as well Giemme, they always seem to have a good match. I don't think that it would be easy to mix Tamiya Sky grey to match. FS 36622 is almost white, with a tinge of beige. HARM missiles are painted 36622, and there are lots of pics of them on the web that you can use to compare.

The intake trunking is amazing by the way, and I can't believe the work you're doing on that ladder!

[giemme]

Cheers Cookie, thanks!

So we have a majority for Lifecolor then (you and Giorgio N ). I'll have to go and get it and try that out

...and I can't believe the work you're doing on that ladder!

The ladder has been totally taken to pieces, it didn't hold any handling. But next WE I'm gonna try again, with soldering. Fingers crossed

Ciao

[Blogs On]

Hi Giemme,

Sorry, but soldering with your fingers crossed is not recommended! :-p

Hat, coat, leaving now!

[giemme]

:rofl:

[BerndM]

Better late to the party than never, thats how to build a decent Phantom, kitbashing at its finest !

Makes me wondering what the Monogram design team can do with new tool molding, impressive work, Giemme !

[giemme]

Welcome on board, Bernd!

Ciao

[jrlx]

Superb progress, the intakes are excellent!

Cheers

Jaime

[giemme]

Sorry, trouble posting

Edited January 11, 2016 by giemme

[giemme]

Superb progress, the intakes are excellent!

Obrigado Jaime!

Hi everybody, here's WE update, lots of photos and a few questions, mainly for Gene but also for others "in the know".

Let's start with some pics of the tub glued to the fuselage, starboard side:

Time to do some dry fit with the wings; Gene had marked the holes to be opened for the intended weapons and tanks load:

the idea is to have:

- centerline gunpod

- inboard pilons with TERs and Mk82 Snakeye bombs (three each)

- outboard pilons with drop tanks

First question for Gene; you sent me also these ECC pods (bottom part of the pic):

is this something that can fit with the AM load, or where they just an alternative? In case they fit, where would they be mounted on?

On with the wings; again, Gene here marked a couple of bumps to be removed, as they are specific for the J version:

Dry fit:

A bit of interference with the seamless intakes on the bottom part

Some adjustment needed on the back part

The front wheel well part also shows some interference

This gap is a known "feature" of Hasegawa F-4 kits

The top of the wheel well touches the bottom of the Monogram tub

Another question for Gene: the part indicated by the red circle, on the leading edge of both wings, was also on the F-4C?

Here's what I had to do to have wings a bottom fuselage to sit flush with the rest:

some cutting and scraping in the red circle areas:

same here (only one side, because when doing my side of the seamless intake, I didn't exactly copy Gene's one, so my fault )

and on the bottom of Monogram tub (I used my Dremel and a sanding disc here - of course the tub pooped off and I had to re-glue it in place later )

And here's how it looks now:

I also wanted to test fit the Aires exhausts; very fine pieces of resin, amazing level of detail:

So, after a good deal of time to separate them from their casting blocks, I started with dry-fitting the nozzles:

Then I tried with the internal part as well, and that shows another interference (again, see red circle):

Anybody that has used them before can confirm that I'll have to remove some of the plastic from the bottom part of the fuselage pieces?

Last thing for today; I've been doing more practice with soldering, so I used the parts I had already cut for the boarding ladder as a test bed (the steps are not even square), plus some other bits:

as I said earlier, I need to refine my technique, but with soldering the structure holds up very well. It also works pretty good even with different materials (and I couldn't find a suitable copper wire for the uprights), so I think I'll go on with a mix of steel and copper. On the right part of the pic you can also see the new uprights I've prepared.

That's it for today, please feel free to comment and/or answer to the questions I asked

Ciao

[jrlx]

Great progress, the bird is really taking shape now!

The parts breakdown reminds me of my Fujimi British Phantom builds.

Cheers

Jaime

[Giorgio N]

Giorgio, I believe that there are features that need removing, in particular the two bumps under the fuselage right ahead of the wing leading edges. Gene will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the F-4C only had a long chord blade antenna on the left (that may be what hasegawa wanted to represent with the long and low bump) and nothing on the right (the bump in the Hase kit is another ECM antenna used on the J)