giemme Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 Sounds like air refueling was (is?) always a tricky situation Challenging and very satisfying!! SANDY BAY-BEE was unique (fun) in that whenever the radio was keyed, the rudder would deflect slightly to the left (that was never figured out the year I was there) ... not a big factor since most of our air refuelings were done radio out. Do you know which was the reason behind having the air refueling door on the top spine for USAF Phantoms, as oppose to the side one of the Navy aircrafts? Beyond my pay grade, but good summary here. Gene K Well, that was a most interesting reading, once more thanks for the link! I never thought of the big bomber aircrafts, always had only fighters in my mind (but I know it is some sort of mental distortion I have ... ) But a 2M $ aircraft steering when radio was keyed ... :D This is all fascinating Gene, thanks for sharing. I'd never heard of a 'smoke' mission before. Amazing cockpit detail Giemme. Thanks Cookie, trying to keep up with the level of this thread Seeing that the theme of this build is 60's CRB Phantom. May I ask Gene, were the solid intake covers in use during your time at CRB. I never seen them in any shots, maybe it came about more in the 1970's? As well, did you guys use your parabrake on landings? Giemme, your build has inspired me to buy the Academy 48th F-4C. Need some more research time. I had a membership some years back with the F-4 Phantom Society which I think still exists. Thanks for joining, Baldwin8 Beware, Phantom phever is highly contagious ... Great work so far, Giemme! Dressing the girl up right. As for those "smoke" cannisters, here's a nice list. http://www.designation-systems.net/usmilav/asetds/u-s.html Of course, it might not have been just smoke. Smoke is rarely a deterent. Gary Cheers Gary, thanks for the link and for commenting! Which means that you can paint them however you like, secure in the knowledge that nobody can ever prove you're wrong That thought kinda crossed my mind .... :D Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob85 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Your modelling plus gene's commentary is making this thread very special, thank you both for that. Stunning details added giemme, something aspire to... Rob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 ... were the solid intake covers in use during your time at CRB. I looked at as many CRB photos as I could find (mainly on the Internet as I lost most of my memorabilia to hurricane flooding) ... and saw absolutely NO intake covers on or off the airplanes (except wire screens used for ground engine runs). So one can't "cheat" and hide the intakes .... (just kidding, of course) Gene K 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 Gene, can you please tell what is the little thing indicated by the arrow, in next pic? TIA Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene K Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) ... what is the little thing indicated by the arrow, in next pic? Well ... uh ... well ... that ... uh .... that's the ... uh ... OK, here's an interesting site for you to read while I look up that antenna. I'll ask expert Scott Wilson - he knows everything Phantom! Gene K Edited December 16, 2015 by Gene K 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoine Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Phantom? Vietnam? Sh..! How did I miss this thread???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 Your modelling plus gene's commentary is making this thread very special, thank you both for that. Stunning details added giemme, something aspire to... Rob Cheers Rob, thanks! Well ... uh ... well ... that ... uh .... that's the ... uh ... OK, here's an interesting site for you to read while I look up that antenna. I'll ask expert Scott Wilson - he knows everything Phantom! Gene K :D Thanks for the link, very interesting - just had a quick glance at it. Phantom? Vietnam? Sh..! How did I miss this thread???? Welcome on board, Antoine - Bienvenue! Here's another progress report - not much really: last night session was a lot about trial and error, so the few things I did took a lot of attempts to get done right. Canopy unlocking lever (I believe ... ), made by hammering a copper wire for the lever shaft, while the handle is a beer can cutout, rounded using Dremel and a sanding disk, then cut to size A bit of "how I did it" concerning the canopy locking mechanism, port side; usual beer can cutouts plus another bit of hammered copper wire, held in place with double sided tape and glued with CA Hanging stripes cut to size with regular scissors, and then rigid coper wire glued in, again with CA More PE bits from Airwaves set glued in place on port side; sequence as usual, I used PVA to provisionally set them in place, CA along the internal borders and Tamiya Green Cap along the outside border, to seal everything. Then I needed to divert a bit from those little flimsy bits, so I started making a template to reproduce the AAR door: Tamiya tape positioned again on a beer can cutout: refined using scissors and the Dremel tool showed in next pic, for the rounded part I know I'm making my life harder for the scribing session, by cutting a template like this; the ideal would have been to cut a frame with that shape, but after a few attempts at the rounded part, I gave up and decided to try with this. I'll have to be extra-careful when rescribing .... Ciao 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Love Giorgio's work and Gene's information, I'm learning more about Phantoms in Vietnam in this thread than I have in some books... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I know I'm making my life harder for the scribing session, by cutting a template like this; the ideal would have been to cut a frame with that shape, but after a few attempts at the rounded part, I gave up and decided to try with this. I'll have to be extra-careful when rescribing .... I find it much easier to scribe using inside (i.e. - cut out) templates rather then scribing around cut out shapes such as this (if you see what I mean). If you're going to scribe the door Giorgio - can't you do it using a mixture of templates and straight edges? I'm thinking that the rounded section could be scribed using a suitable diameter circular template - and the rest of the outline using straight edges? If you used a 0.2mm or 0.3mm drill (or the point of a pin) to mark out each corner and change of direction point- then it should be manageable to scribe between the points? Alternatively - if the door sits slightly proud you could cut it from 0.1mm plastic card? It's quick and very easy to work with and could be glued on top with Tamiya green cap?. Maybe use a drilled or punched hole to create the radiused section and then cut it out initially as a square shape with a curved indent at the top - and then trim the sides to the correct shape. Just thinking out loud....... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 This thread just gets better and better, great build and great storyline. I am scratching my head to think why keying the radio would have any effect on the rudder controls as they were basically mechanical/mandraulic (no FBW in those days!!). There were plenty incidents of UCMs on the stabilators on F4s in those days, especially at low level (quite literally bugs in the pitot for the Stab feedback bellows IIRC), but I've never heard of that one before. Are you sure you didn't just have a nervous twitch when using the radio Gene? Duncan B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Speaking of templates, my favourite solution is to make a template from the kind of plastic transparent sheets once used for projections. This plastic is clear and can also be fed through a printer. It's thin enough to conform well to curves but also strong enough to be used as a scribing template. As it can be printed on using lasers or inkjets, it's easy to draw the shape on any drawing software and print it on the plastic. The printed shape can be used as a guide for chopping off the unwanted area. I've used this technique before and always worked well 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 Steve, thank you very much for that! They all sounds like good ideas, the only one I would discard is the thin plastic card, as looking at pictures like this: https://www.google.it/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiTjceTg-DJAhVLVRQKHQudCq8QjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.largescaleplanes.com%2Findex.php%3Fshowtopic%3D33262%26page%3D2&psig=AFQjCNHdNlscRhllTxNOuvlDm81BCEmgSQ&ust=1450343035539988 the AAR door appears to be absolutely flush with the rest of the fuselage. By the way, I found that link by chance after your post, and it's from the expert (Scott Wilson) Gene mentioned earlier; I just had a quick glance at it and immediately bookmarked - and I strongly suggest anyone interested in the F4 to do that! Anyway, you're probably right about scribing this using a mix of template and straight edges - my attempt was in some way related to having a "permanent" template, that I could reuse on future F4 builds. I'll give it a try on a piece of scrap plastic, and if I see it's too much of an hassle, I'll revert to your idea Thanks again Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 See what you mean. If you want to make a 'permanent' template why not make it an 'inside' template from thinnish plastic sheet? Say 0.3mm or 0.5mm? Using your metal can outside template or the mix of template/straight edge. At 0.3mm thick a few passes with the scriber is usually enough to cut far enough through the sheet that you can press it out and get a nice clean shape. Easy and quick to do it several times and choose the best result. Then use that as your reusable template? It should be strong enough to allow the shape to be lightly scribed with a needle, and easy enough to deepen it thereafter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 See what you mean. If you want to make a 'permanent' template why not make it an 'inside' template from thinnish plastic sheet? Say 0.3mm or 0.5mm? Using your metal can outside template or the mix of template/straight edge. At 0.3mm thick a few passes with the scriber is usually enough to cut far enough through the sheet that you can press it out and get a nice clean shape. Easy and quick to do it several times and choose the best result. Then use that as your reusable template? It should be strong enough to allow the shape to be lightly scribed with a needle, and easy enough to deepen it thereafter. This sounds the best option, I'll try that on a 0.3mm sheet (the template has to conform to the curved Phantom fuselage spine). Thanks! Speaking of templates, my favourite solution is to make a template from the kind of plastic transparent sheets once used for projections. This plastic is clear and can also be fed through a printer. It's thin enough to conform well to curves but also strong enough to be used as a scribing template. As it can be printed on using lasers or inkjets, it's easy to draw the shape on any drawing software and print it on the plastic. The printed shape can be used as a guide for chopping off the unwanted area. I've used this technique before and always worked well Fogli per lucido! I've got some of that, and used as an experiment to make my own spraying masks, but they're way too rigid for that; makes for an excellent replacement for gunsights, though. But I like the idea of using them as scribing template. My only issue would be how to cut non-straight lines - I tried something similar last night, directly on thin plastic, and gave up after a couple of attempts, but I had no template and was using an Exacto knife to cut. Thanks to you too for the tip Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) Fogli per lucido! I've got some of that, and used as an experiment to make my own spraying masks, but they're way too rigid for that; makes for an excellent replacement for gunsights, though. But I like the idea of using them as scribing template. My only issue would be how to cut non-straight lines - I tried something similar last night, directly on thin plastic, and gave up after a couple of attempts, but I had no template and was using an Exacto knife to cut. Thanks to you too for the tip Ciao There are a couple of options to cut curved lines from this material. Of course the most immediate is to use a combination of scribing templates with various curvatures (mine are from some Chinese companies but there are of different brands around). Another approach is to cut something roughly right and then sand from the inside to achieve a better curve. Actually you can even get the curves using round files, this material can be sanded easily this way. Having the shape nicely printed on the plastic helps a lot in achieving the right curves where needed. The same technique can of course be used to make a template from plasticard. Alternatively you could use the metal template you just made to cut the shape from the plastic... Edited December 16, 2015 by Giorgio N 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Lovely work on those locking mechs Giorgio!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonl Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Great work, keep it coming. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 There are a couple of options to cut curved lines from this material. Of course the most immediate is to use a combination of scribing templates with various curvatures (mine are from some Chinese companies but there are of different brands around). Another approach is to cut something roughly right and then sand from the inside to achieve a better curve. Actually you can even get the curves using round files, this material can be sanded easily this way. Having the shape nicely printed on the plastic helps a lot in achieving the right curves where needed. The same technique can of course be used to make a template from plasticard. Alternatively you could use the metal template you just made to cut the shape from the plastic... Thanks Giorgio, it all makes sense. My only point is what kind of tool (hence also the choice of the material to work on) to use to get a proper round cut - in that respect, good to know about the easiness in using files to refine the transparent sheet. Thanks again for your hints Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoine Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Welcome on board, Antoine - Bienvenue! Thanks a lot! My stash listing shows that I'm just a bit short of 50 Phantoms in all scales to apply the lessons learned here! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaStix Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Excellent work on the canopy lever and template Giemme. I'm really sure you must have tiny, skillful fingers and amazing eyesight! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob85 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Learning a lot about scribing complex shapes which is very handy, cheers chaps! Giemme your work is great yet humble.... Beer cans hammered copper, sounds like a sculpture or your making it out of the things you have found in a university students bedroom... Actually for that joke to work it should be a uni student studying electronics... Keep chipping away with the fine details Rob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 Beer cans hammered copper, sounds like a sculpture or your making it out of the things you have found in a university students bedroom... Actually for that joke to work it should be a uni student studying electronics... that would be me ... 20 odd years ago Ciao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookytooth Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Great work on the latches Giemme, and some really nice resource info too. Simon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giemme Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 Lovely work on those locking mechs Giorgio!! Thanks Keith! They'll hopefully look a bit better after a primer coat Great work, keep it coming. Thanks Leonl, trying to Thanks a lot! My stash listing shows that I'm just a bit short of 50 Phantoms in all scales to apply the lessons learned here! You gotta start somewhere ... Excellent work on the canopy lever and template Giemme. I'm really sure you must have tiny, skillful fingers and amazing eyesight! Cheers Stix, thanks . Fingers: mmhhh, see for yourself ... but I'd be lost without this: and this: :D Great work on the latches Giemme, and some really nice resource info too. Simon. Cheers Simon, thanks! Slowly proceeding with detailing the interiors, here some more work I managed to do last night: added the backseater canopy lever, now I think I can call starboard side completed, as far as detailing goes throttle handles for both pilot and GIB, just to add a bit of 3d Then I started working on port side; I have no clear pics of this part, so I basically copied some of the MONO kit details Canopy mechanism That's it. Comments welcome Ciao 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Comment: Looks like fun. Love this sort of stuff. Gonna look great under some paint. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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