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RMP2

Early Jaguar GR1 colours - Pre-Wrap-around

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I hadnt realised the RAF used the Jags before the chisel nose was fitted either. Hmm, maybe a future built there.

That was very early days. You had 'vanilla' airframes without either chisel nose or RWR fairings and others with one or the other, before the first standard of both and LAG undersides.

Trevor

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Cheers, Bill. I think Id like mine a little greener than that, Im thinking baby/kitten poo nasty kind of colour. Its certainly not what Id have thought "Yea, yknow what, thats a great colour for the wheel 'oles n stuff".

I cant think of anything other than the Jags that got it. Poor things.

The colour did of course vary, but initially it does appear to be a more yellow shade, rather then the sickly green you describe so well.....

For example....(Borrowed from ARC)

jag13.jpg

Tamiya's XF yellow green is actually a bit greener than this, so maybe I didn't use that on mine?

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The colour did of course vary, but initially it does appear to be a more yellow shade, rather then the sickly green you describe so well.....

Tamiya's XF yellow green is actually a bit greener than this, so maybe I didn't use that on mine?

Bit like the yellow on the inside of the nwd on this T-Bird Bill, - new to the OCU :-

T2kycHA.jpg

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IIRC Trevor's photo at post 7 shows prototype S07, XW563 which never went to the RAF. I remember visiting Coltishall in 1974 and visiting the hangar where jets from 6, 41 and 54 Squadrons were being worked on. XZ385 (6 Squadron(?)) was in and was the first example that I'd seen with the LRMTS chisel nose and was in Matt Dark Green and Dark Sea Grey wrap around camouflage while 54's two seater XX144 retained her Light Aircraft Grey undersides. There are photos of XX108 and '111 with Light Aircraft Grey undersides and RWR fairing on the fin but both without LRMTS.

The photos of XX118/JI018 suggest that more than one shade of zinc chromate was used: have a look at the AAR probe bay and the adjacent avionics bay and see what you think. Also, I may be mistaken but, I think that's a Valiant nose in the background.

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Wrap around camo in 74 would, from what Ive seen and read online, be odd. Seems a few things were being tried and tested around the mid 70s.

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Sorry, it could well have been spring '75 rather than summer '74. My memory leaks like a sieve on a good day and, so far, this one is not.

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I hadnt realised the RAF used the Jags before the chisel nose was fitted either. Hmm, maybe a future built there.

There was a lovely picture of one without the chisel nose used on recruiting posters when i was a lad:

c0c264a4408f0103a8672b2df23bd7d3_zps1fd3

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There was a lovely picture of one without the chisel nose used on recruiting posters when i was a lad:

c0c264a4408f0103a8672b2df23bd7d3_zps1fd3

IIRC, there was another poster of a Jaguar flying over Germany with the same recruiting caption, which was crossed out and replaced with 'Shoot it down' by some irreverant F-4 crews down in the Falklands.

Back-on topic, it isn't often documented but there were two different wraparound schemes. The first was used on aircraft which had the the upper surface pattern based on the three colour camouflage, the later wraparound had a modified upper surface pattern. The undersurface wraparound pattern was different for these two schemes. What I have been unable to determine is whether all new aircraft after the decision to implement wraparound were given the revised scheme, and it is only aircraft thet were modified from having LAG undersurfaces that had the earlier wraparound pattern, or whether some were delivered as such.

Peter

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...I wonder why they sent it back?............😉

There were three phases to the Indian order. Firstly fly-away ex RAF. Secondly were knock-down kits from Warton with increasingly more indigenous content and finally wholly Indian built.

It was always intended that the phase 1 aircraft would be returned to the UK. For whatever reason very few (off the top of my head only one T.2 was returned the the RAF) and the others became battle damage trainers/parts donors. I heard though can't confirm that the RAF's reluctance to have them back was something to do with the paper trail of maintenance and parts replacement whilst in India.

Re the two-tone primer on '118, I would be reluctant to comment based on one photo. However given that the Jag was a joint collaboration with France it's possible that the sections from either source had different shades of primer. IIRC the fronts were British and the rear French.

Trevor

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The front fuselage back until the bulkhead aft of the Airbrake bays were built in France (Biarritz) and the rear fuselage plus the wings were built by BAC in England.

cheers Bob

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The front fuselage back until the bulkhead aft of the Airbrake bays were built in France (Biarritz) and the rear fuselage plus the wings were built by BAC in England.

cheers Bob

Thanks for the correction! It's been many years since I was immersed in Jaguar stuff for the Merseyside Aviation Society.

Trevor

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When I first arrived at Warton I worked with the guys who unloaded the Front fuselage (and the wine :) ) from the French trucks when they arrived (Top of 5 Hanger) and then they married the rear fuselage to the newly arrived Front! Next stage was the fitting of French Omissions (the parts that had not arrived in Biarritz before the front was shipped). Then the Main wing was fitted and then the whole caboodle moved next door to 4 Hanger to join the assembly line.

cheers Bob

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Lovely pics, thanks for posting those up.

Im really starting to prefer the early camo.

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Those are excellent pictures.

My kitty will definitely be 2 Sqn in wrap around like this

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/000453089.html

However I will need to source another drop tank and the centreline recon pod.

Trevor

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Those are excellent pictures.

My kitty will definitely be 2 Sqn in wrap around like this

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/000453089.html

However I will need to source another drop tank and the centreline recon pod.

Trevor

Are you sorted for 2 Sqn decals?

I have the ESCI ones here that I intend to use to help me print some on decal paper. Fancy being a guinea pig? :)

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Forgot - the centreline tanks were bigger than the wing tanks I believe, so a second one of those wouldnt perhaps be ideal.

Ive robbed my Airfix of its wing tanks, pylons and recce pod. You can see how the tanks and their fins compare here (Airfix fin on top of KH), chucked the recce pod in too so you get an idea how "good" that is -

P1020475%20Medium.jpg

Just thinking that by the time youd be done with paying for AM bits n bobs, youd be as well to have bought and raided an Airfix Jag, youll be wanting pylons from it at the very least, the KH ones are erm, not exactly anywhere near sensible for an RAF Jag.

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Are you sorted for 2 Sqn decals?

I have the ESCI ones here that I intend to use to help me print some on decal paper. Fancy being a guinea pig? :)

Thanks for the offer but I have an unused set that is now safely in the Kitty Hawk box. As you know it's a bit basic so I'll have to get an aftermarket set for all the stencilling and walkway markings.

Pylons and stuff will probably have to be hacked from the kit parts or else good old plastic card to the rescue.

Trevor

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There was no difference to the tanks. The same one's were loaded onto the required pylon.

It's just that the KH version is totally the wrong shape & size

Glad you spotted the wrong pylons in the kit. Robbing the Airfix one's is a good plan. I've had to carve the KH garbage into approximate RAF shaped one's!

There are so many pieces on the sprues that are meant for the French kit, you have to be careful what your fitting. Study the walkround pictures on this site to check.

The gun bay doors need to be the one's with the bulges on to accommodate the Aden gun link chute. Leave off the little gun barrel muzzles that are in the blast fairings, Aden barrels were not that long, they stopped at the forward most "Maserati tube" vent hole (those 2 groups of 3 holes in line with the barrel).

Also, for an aircraft of the time your doing, you need to use the conical "noddy cap" brake chute fairing, not the flat ended door. In the cockpit, the instrument panel needs the circular moving map display in the middle not the later AMLCD TV screen. Don't fit the AN/ALE40 flare dispensers under the engine doors.

Can't think of anything else for now. Feel free to ask if you need any other clarification.

Rob.

Edited by Phone Phixer

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The RAF tanks were indeed the same size, whether under the wing or under the fuselage, however the fins were normally removed when fitted centrally. Airfix's tanks and pylons are much better for an RAF machine but note that Airfix's pylons are undersized. I was lucky that I had a set of pylons mastered by Neil Burkill of Paragon, I don't know if these were ever issued commercially....but if you look on ARC Neil built a T4 conversion using his superb resin set, he explains the amendment there....

Edited by Bill Clark

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