Max Headroom Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I hadnt realised the RAF used the Jags before the chisel nose was fitted either. Hmm, maybe a future built there. That was very early days. You had 'vanilla' airframes without either chisel nose or RWR fairings and others with one or the other, before the first standard of both and LAG undersides. Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Cheers, Bill. I think Id like mine a little greener than that, Im thinking baby/kitten poo nasty kind of colour. Its certainly not what Id have thought "Yea, yknow what, thats a great colour for the wheel 'oles n stuff". I cant think of anything other than the Jags that got it. Poor things. The colour did of course vary, but initially it does appear to be a more yellow shade, rather then the sickly green you describe so well..... For example....(Borrowed from ARC) Tamiya's XF yellow green is actually a bit greener than this, so maybe I didn't use that on mine? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Here is the former XX118 after return from IAF service. http://www.airliners.net/photo/India---Air/Sepecat-Jaguar-GR1/2095326/L/ Trevor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMP2 Posted November 28, 2015 Author Share Posted November 28, 2015 Here is the former XX118 after return from IAF service. http://www.airliners.net/photo/India---Air/Sepecat-Jaguar-GR1/2095326/L/ Trevor Rough landing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 The colour did of course vary, but initially it does appear to be a more yellow shade, rather then the sickly green you describe so well..... Tamiya's XF yellow green is actually a bit greener than this, so maybe I didn't use that on mine? Bit like the yellow on the inside of the nwd on this T-Bird Bill, - new to the OCU :- 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Bit like the yellow on the inside of the nwd on this T-Bird Bill, - new to the OCU :- Cracking photo Dennis...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) Here is the former XX118 after return from IAF service. http://www.airliners.net/photo/India---Air/Sepecat-Jaguar-GR1/2095326/L/ Trevor ...I wonder why they sent it back?............😉 Edited November 28, 2015 by Bill Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stever219 Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 IIRC Trevor's photo at post 7 shows prototype S07, XW563 which never went to the RAF. I remember visiting Coltishall in 1974 and visiting the hangar where jets from 6, 41 and 54 Squadrons were being worked on. XZ385 (6 Squadron(?)) was in and was the first example that I'd seen with the LRMTS chisel nose and was in Matt Dark Green and Dark Sea Grey wrap around camouflage while 54's two seater XX144 retained her Light Aircraft Grey undersides. There are photos of XX108 and '111 with Light Aircraft Grey undersides and RWR fairing on the fin but both without LRMTS. The photos of XX118/JI018 suggest that more than one shade of zinc chromate was used: have a look at the AAR probe bay and the adjacent avionics bay and see what you think. Also, I may be mistaken but, I think that's a Valiant nose in the background. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMP2 Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 Wrap around camo in 74 would, from what Ive seen and read online, be odd. Seems a few things were being tried and tested around the mid 70s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stever219 Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Sorry, it could well have been spring '75 rather than summer '74. My memory leaks like a sieve on a good day and, so far, this one is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 I hadnt realised the RAF used the Jags before the chisel nose was fitted either. Hmm, maybe a future built there. There was a lovely picture of one without the chisel nose used on recruiting posters when i was a lad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dambuster Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 There was a lovely picture of one without the chisel nose used on recruiting posters when i was a lad: IIRC, there was another poster of a Jaguar flying over Germany with the same recruiting caption, which was crossed out and replaced with 'Shoot it down' by some irreverant F-4 crews down in the Falklands. Back-on topic, it isn't often documented but there were two different wraparound schemes. The first was used on aircraft which had the the upper surface pattern based on the three colour camouflage, the later wraparound had a modified upper surface pattern. The undersurface wraparound pattern was different for these two schemes. What I have been unable to determine is whether all new aircraft after the decision to implement wraparound were given the revised scheme, and it is only aircraft thet were modified from having LAG undersurfaces that had the earlier wraparound pattern, or whether some were delivered as such. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 ...I wonder why they sent it back?............😉There were three phases to the Indian order. Firstly fly-away ex RAF. Secondly were knock-down kits from Warton with increasingly more indigenous content and finally wholly Indian built.It was always intended that the phase 1 aircraft would be returned to the UK. For whatever reason very few (off the top of my head only one T.2 was returned the the RAF) and the others became battle damage trainers/parts donors. I heard though can't confirm that the RAF's reluctance to have them back was something to do with the paper trail of maintenance and parts replacement whilst in India. Re the two-tone primer on '118, I would be reluctant to comment based on one photo. However given that the Jag was a joint collaboration with France it's possible that the sections from either source had different shades of primer. IIRC the fronts were British and the rear French. Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguarfan Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 The front fuselage back until the bulkhead aft of the Airbrake bays were built in France (Biarritz) and the rear fuselage plus the wings were built by BAC in England. cheers Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 The front fuselage back until the bulkhead aft of the Airbrake bays were built in France (Biarritz) and the rear fuselage plus the wings were built by BAC in England. cheers Bob Thanks for the correction! It's been many years since I was immersed in Jaguar stuff for the Merseyside Aviation Society. Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguarfan Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 When I first arrived at Warton I worked with the guys who unloaded the Front fuselage (and the wine ) from the French trucks when they arrived (Top of 5 Hanger) and then they married the rear fuselage to the newly arrived Front! Next stage was the fitting of French Omissions (the parts that had not arrived in Biarritz before the front was shipped). Then the Main wing was fitted and then the whole caboodle moved next door to 4 Hanger to join the assembly line. cheers Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Some photos that may be of interest? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguarfan Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Yea, lots of yellow primer! The first two photos are of 4 Hanger at Warton, great pics! cheers Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMP2 Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 Lovely pics, thanks for posting those up. Im really starting to prefer the early camo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Those are excellent pictures. My kitty will definitely be 2 Sqn in wrap around like this http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/000453089.html However I will need to source another drop tank and the centreline recon pod. Trevor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMP2 Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 Those are excellent pictures. My kitty will definitely be 2 Sqn in wrap around like this http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/000453089.html However I will need to source another drop tank and the centreline recon pod. Trevor Are you sorted for 2 Sqn decals? I have the ESCI ones here that I intend to use to help me print some on decal paper. Fancy being a guinea pig? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMP2 Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 Forgot - the centreline tanks were bigger than the wing tanks I believe, so a second one of those wouldnt perhaps be ideal. Ive robbed my Airfix of its wing tanks, pylons and recce pod. You can see how the tanks and their fins compare here (Airfix fin on top of KH), chucked the recce pod in too so you get an idea how "good" that is - Just thinking that by the time youd be done with paying for AM bits n bobs, youd be as well to have bought and raided an Airfix Jag, youll be wanting pylons from it at the very least, the KH ones are erm, not exactly anywhere near sensible for an RAF Jag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Are you sorted for 2 Sqn decals? I have the ESCI ones here that I intend to use to help me print some on decal paper. Fancy being a guinea pig? Thanks for the offer but I have an unused set that is now safely in the Kitty Hawk box. As you know it's a bit basic so I'll have to get an aftermarket set for all the stencilling and walkway markings.Pylons and stuff will probably have to be hacked from the kit parts or else good old plastic card to the rescue. Trevor 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phone Phixer Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) There was no difference to the tanks. The same one's were loaded onto the required pylon. It's just that the KH version is totally the wrong shape & size Glad you spotted the wrong pylons in the kit. Robbing the Airfix one's is a good plan. I've had to carve the KH garbage into approximate RAF shaped one's! There are so many pieces on the sprues that are meant for the French kit, you have to be careful what your fitting. Study the walkround pictures on this site to check. The gun bay doors need to be the one's with the bulges on to accommodate the Aden gun link chute. Leave off the little gun barrel muzzles that are in the blast fairings, Aden barrels were not that long, they stopped at the forward most "Maserati tube" vent hole (those 2 groups of 3 holes in line with the barrel). Also, for an aircraft of the time your doing, you need to use the conical "noddy cap" brake chute fairing, not the flat ended door. In the cockpit, the instrument panel needs the circular moving map display in the middle not the later AMLCD TV screen. Don't fit the AN/ALE40 flare dispensers under the engine doors. Can't think of anything else for now. Feel free to ask if you need any other clarification. Rob. Edited November 29, 2015 by Phone Phixer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) The RAF tanks were indeed the same size, whether under the wing or under the fuselage, however the fins were normally removed when fitted centrally. Airfix's tanks and pylons are much better for an RAF machine but note that Airfix's pylons are undersized. I was lucky that I had a set of pylons mastered by Neil Burkill of Paragon, I don't know if these were ever issued commercially....but if you look on ARC Neil built a T4 conversion using his superb resin set, he explains the amendment there.... Edited November 29, 2015 by Bill Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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