NorLars Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 So, it looks like F-16's did the shootdown?According to BBC that's what the Turkish military reports. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34907983 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan P Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I think NATO might be one nation smaller by the end of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight_Flyer Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 According to the latest, the Russian plane was given a few warnings before it was fired a upon. If Turkey are able to prove the plane was over their airspace then presumably they can claim they were within their right to engage the aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorLars Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I think NATO might be one nation smaller by the end of the week.And give up a highly strategicly important location like Turkey? I think not. I'm not going to be political and say if they should or not. Just trying to be a realist. At most NATO will condemn the shoot down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slater Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 In the wider context of the conflict in that region, it's a regrettable but (so far) isolated incident. Apologies will be made and everyone will move on. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occa Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Turkey under Erdogan belongs to the Wahhabit Saudi axis, says it all. Wahhabit Islam has a radical interpretation of the Koran as a basis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occa Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 According to the latest, the Russian plane was given a few warnings before it was fired a upon. If Turkey are able to prove the plane was over their airspace then presumably they can claim they were within their right to engage the aircraft. 15:54 SU-24 SHOT DOWN DESPITE AIR INCIDENT PREVENTION AGREEMENT SIGNED WITH U.S., AND TURKEY IS PART OF THIS COALITION - PUTIN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hacker Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 just to say if it was the other way around the Russians would have not even gave a warning. That has been proven time and time again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Both crew dead, one shot whilst in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight_Flyer Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 15:54 SU-24 SHOT DOWN DESPITE AIR INCIDENT PREVENTION AGREEMENT SIGNED WITH U.S., AND TURKEY IS PART OF THIS COALITION - PUTIN Don't know, all I'm reading on the news article is Putin claiming the Su24 never violated Turkish airspace. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hacker Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) if it was the Russians it would be sorry about your luck and they would say it violated their airspace whether it did or not. l side with the Turks as it could be as they said Edited November 24, 2015 by hacker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 RIP to the pilots. Galling to survive being shot down only to be killed by ground fire while helpless on the silk 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigmason1971 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 it was a russian SU-24 and putin is very annoyed about it The shooting down of a Russian jet by Turkey is a "stab in the back" committed by "accomplices of terrorists", Vladimir Putin has said. The Sukhoi Su-24 was warned 10 times before being downed near the Syrian border by two Turkish F16 jets for violating the country's airspace, according to the Turkish military. http://news.sky.com/story/1593241/putin-downing-of-jet-a-stab-in-the-back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occa Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 17:17 Turkish F-16 downs Russian jet in Syrian territory, plane crashes 4 kilometers away from Turkish border - Putin (Part 2) And even this: 16:45 Su-24 downed despite Memorandum on Military Flights over Syria signed with U.S., Turkey part of U.S.-led coalition - Putin Makes two wrongs on the Turkish account Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorLars Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Both crew dead, one shot whilst in the air. Very sad. According to this radar image it seems they were indeed in Turkish airspace. I would guess that the pilots chose to take a shortcut over the border to save time. I don't think they would have been authorized to violate Turkish airspace. But that's just speculation on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
occa Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Very sad. According to this radar image it seems they were indeed in Turkish airspace. ............................................ I would guess that the pilots chose to take a shortcut over the border to save time. I don't think they would have been authorized to violate Turkish airspace. But that's just speculation on my part. Where is that image from ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaurieS Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) The Russian air force have been straying into Turkey territory regularly and Russia have been warned each time. Turkey is a large land mass with a population of that of Germany. They have wanted, from reports, to warn the Russians for a long time that they are not to be taken lightly. For its part I suspect Russians are also trying it on. Either that or Russian pilots need to learn to navigate. They knew the risks. With what is going on in that part of the world and the possibility of rogue pilots the Turkish goverenment, it seems to me, are showing their teeth. Misleading is the easy conclusion that the aircraft was shot down in Syria as it landed 4km away form the Turkey border. The aircraft passed over a deep protrusion on Turkey's southern border with Syria. If correct it was shot down in this protrusion and after being hit carried on as a "missile" many kilometers more than the four reported. Bet they get it right from now on ! Shame really as I am sure that Mr Putin would be very kind to any Turkish aircraft violating Russian borders. Laurie Edited November 24, 2015 by LaurieS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorLars Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Where is that image from ? I found it on a Norwegian news site called Dagbladet.no Their source is the Turkish Armed Forces. Here's the article run through Google Translate: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dagbladet.no%2F2015%2F11%2F24%2Fnyheter%2Futenriks%2Ftyrkia%2Frussland%2Fsyria%2F42101106%2F&edit-text= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorLars Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Reuters is now saying that the pilots are believed to be alive. https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/669191195986366465 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzn20 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 IS/ISIL/Daesh must be really happy, NATO country shoots down Ally (in the anti ISIS etc.missions) I don't understand why Turkey doesn't give Russia permission to overfly on the ISIS etc. attack missions for operational reasons. They are massive trading partners so there is mutual intrest and on common ground over ISIS etc. destruction. This was always a mistake in the waiting,nobody should be really surprised.So a simple communication channel could/should be operating,makes sense with so many "coalition" aircraft buzzing around Syria with Russia out of the loop. I imagine an AWACS or similar is patrolling that area and have got this incident recorded and share it with all parties and stop it happening again. Reuters is now saying that the pilots are believed to be alive. https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/669191195986366465 Hope thats true, they are helping to get rid of ISIS etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daryl_five_zero Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Sadly, the plot thickens. Russian CSAR Helo has been taken down by Syrian rebels. http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/621677/Reports-Russian-helicopter-shot-down-while-searching-downed-jetsSuch a sad day. I'll refrain from airing my own political views, but I think we can all join and spare a thought for the pilots/crew involved in both the Su-24 shootdown, and the downing of the Helo sent to rescue them. Regardless of why they were there, it's horrible to think of those poor guys being gunned down in their silks, and the Helo crew idling helplessly on the ground being taken out by a TOW.RIP. Daryl. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Where the Russians really bombing ISIL in that area, as they have been known to bomb parties fighting against Assad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 There is a huge amount of local politics going on there and understanding it is a bit like trying to work out a rubic cube blindfolded in the dark after someone has mashed your fingers with a hammer. I don't profess any insight other than they guys the Russians are bombing may not be the guys the Turks want them to bomb. Turkey is very sensitive about national sovereignty and Syria has violated their airspace many times as have the Russian flights there reportedly and allegedly. Against that very superficial background co-operation between them is not likely and an incident like this was on the cards in that area unless people were very very careful. Its not nice to see what happened but its a very very dirty war there. Think Balkans on a very bad day and you are getting close. Meantime all very well for the Russians to get upset but if they start sailing in other peoples waters then they might get their fingers burned - that's if the persons whose waters they are have any matches of course Then again it might just be a Minkie I hope that this all calms down meantime and that the two aviators might make it out yet and the reports are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Foster60 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 No reasonable person, civil or military wants to see pilots shot in their parachutes, or on the ground immidiatly afterwards. That would seem to have angered the Russians more than the loss of the aircraft and in a right world, correctly so. This will have inflamed the Russians, whilst I have little in common with the men from the east this does not help an already volatile situation. If this turns out to be true it would not be surprising if the Russians go all out to destroy those who carried out that act which is beyond the rules of war. There is little to defend this act, let alone to have such folks as allies. It is only one notch up from what IS did to the Jordanian F 16 Pilot. Nigel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptormodeller Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Apparantly the Sukhoi WAS in Turkish air-space... for 17 seconds (according to sky news) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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