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caterhamnut

MFH Williams FW16

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Right!....first WIP post on here since joining a few weeks ago.

I must admit I had made the mistake of thinking that this was mostly aircraft modelling - obviously I was very wrong, and I am incrediably impressed with the quality of the work shown in all these forums - some staggering models.

But it is also a great resource and place for advice - I'm re-starting modelling after many years - (I'm working in NYC right now, so can't play with my real cars in the UK), and tackling more complex stuff than my balsa models of years ago - so I'll be looking for tips and advice from you lot!

Will be posting some other new WIP projects as well, including Tamiya 1/12 Caterham and F1 kits...

I had a bit of a spending spree and and went a bit mad buying models to fill cupboards, and the ultimate ones are the Model Factory Hero kits - I love the Tamiya kits but they have not done any recent cars...

I got the MP4/4, the MP23 (Hamilton, Brazil) and the FW16

I am a very big F1 fan, and Senna is a hero - so this car is rather a historic model (for the wrong reasons).

This is my first 'multi-media' model (resin, white metal etc) so will be asking advice I am sure...

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This kit was only released a few weeks ago.

(Incidently, I bought all the kits direct from MFH in Japan)

Loads of parts as you would expect - all of them lovely...

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Note the pen for scale!

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The white metal is quite soft - lots of reshaping required when I get to them...

Resin parts....

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Very nice turned wheels, and rubber tyres, thankfully with the logos already applied!

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Rubber 'boots' for electrical connectors...

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Lots of rivets, cables, turned ali parts etc etc

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I'm going to start with the engine, and assembling the vehicle as a 'test' build, just to make sure everything fits....

I've purchased a source book, and collected lots of pictures from the web, to refer to...I'll add some more pictures of the kit contents when I can grab some more pics....

(apologies, pics are mainly iphone, and usually taken late at night when I actually have time to work on the kit, hence a bit dark!)

Edited by caterhamnut

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Ok - first question - some of the parts have this 'carbon' texture moulded into the resin - I'm thinking this is a bit coarse, and although it is likely to be covered with carbon decal, do I need to either sand this off, or delicately fill/smooth?

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Looking forward to watching this one progress.

Best of luck with it.

Chris.

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No expert on F1 cars, but do MFH supply decals for that area where it's a textured finish, as I'm not sure it would look right in that scale, and knowing MFH attention to detail wouldn't think they would make a mistake like that

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So - starting with the engine block, as it is a nice 'sub-assembly' I can work on and add detail too...

I am using a dremel type drill with a brass wire wheel on it to give the metal a basic clean - works great for the engine where I don't need a mirror finish!

I guess with some other parts I need to finish the metal more?

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Thanks guys - I'm not sure Colin, I shall have to study carefully! But I think you are correct - the decals provided are for the 'smooth/polished' carbon areas, like the wing elements - I do not think there are any decals to go over the 'rough' bits -

I'll take pics of the (very nice) decals...there are carbon details so I shall see where they go - and I agree that MFH are unlikley to do something if it isn't best. Trouble is that the detail is quite fine (the 'carbon' in the resin pic above) and there are a few 'inperfections'...

I know that on a lot of the F1 cars from this era and before, the carbon around the airbox (ie: under the actual aero-body) can be quite 'rough' and unfinished.

Edited by caterhamnut

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By its very nature, carbon fibre isn't rough.

It's a 'cooked' process where the weave/matt/resin is baked in a 'mould' to create the panel required.

It comes out extremely smooth and shiny.

I've never seen C/F on anything that has a 'texture' as such... ESPECIALLY F1 cars.

Even the 'old' C/F which was more like fibre glass wasn't very rough.

Mybe someone knows different?

Roy.

Edited by roymattblack

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I know what you mean Roy, but the 'smooth' is the surface that is on the tool....the other side can often look like GRP lay up....if you look at pictures of the older McLarens (MP4/2 for example) the area around the air box/cockpit, that is visible once the smooth bodywork has been removed, can be quite uneven....I saw one model maker that replicated this on his model by laying tissue paper over the plastic before sealing it on.....

But, as you say, it isn't really 'rough'...I'll post more pics when I get to that bit...

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subbed! I am getting the 1/20th MFH version of this, maybe one day when the wife allows I will get the 1/12th version!

as for the carbon texture personally I would sand it down as like Roy says it should be smooth (imo), sanding it might turn out to be a long job though. I am sure in your reference pics you will see this area and be able to gauge for yourself I would also bear in mind the thickness of that part and possibly filling it would just make the piece look too thick?

Also do you mind showing us what material you are using for reference pics and your opinion on whether or not its worth getting? This is for my own build I will eventually do

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The glossy carbon fibre is the cheaper wet carbon fibre you usually see on road cars. The dry carbon F1 cars use usually has a matte/satin finish, but I don't think it's nearly as rough as MFH have it. And it'd be a nightmare to decal over, woudn't it? So I'd be tempted to sand it down too. Some nice pictures here btw, with plenty of closups of the carbon fibre bits:

http://www.gurneyflap.com/williamsfw16a.html

Looks like a amazing kit- looking forward to seeing the progress on this one :)

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You know looking at that and the kit part ,after primer/paint may just look right, perhaps MFH does know best :winkgrin:

Just got the Ferrari 330 P4 and I'm very impressed and a little daunted by the build process, so will be watching this with interest to pick up as many tips as poss' about the build process especially the metal clean up.

Have followed other builds when steel wool and polishing felts where used but not a brass wheel, would you have to be careful not to loose some of the finer detail using that on the white metal, or is it harder than it seems

Thanks Colin

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I read somewhere else about the brass wheel - I keep it slow and it seems fine so far, but not done any parts yet that will be 'smooth' when finished...metal doesn't 'wear' away...

That P4 kit looks beautiful - good luck!

The rough finish on that wing would look pretty 'smooth' at scale...

The finish that MFH have on some areas is as below:

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This is the underside of the diffuser - looking at actual pics, it seems smooth:

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Another area of mfh texture is the internal side pods:

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I'll evaluate when I get there...

Did some more very rough test fitting last night - just to see :)

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Nothing fixed in place...

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Going back to decals...

As with most kit manufacturers, the decals supplied are 'PC' - with 'Racing' used instead of 'Rothmans'

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...but they are beautiful.

Carbon decals (showing the different 'styles':

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Now - the next bit was entirely by chance (it really was - I had no idea...) - fill in the gaps!!

I am using 'a' box that 'a' kit came in to store, and I took out the main internal cardboard box that this particular kit had some resin parts in - it was actually taped down.

Stuck on the underside was a brown envelope...

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Later, i found a 'similar' envelope and looked inside...

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:)

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subbed! I am getting the 1/20th MFH version of this, maybe one day when the wife allows I will get the 1/12th version!

as for the carbon texture personally I would sand it down as like Roy says it should be smooth (imo), sanding it might turn out to be a long job though. I am sure in your reference pics you will see this area and be able to gauge for yourself I would also bear in mind the thickness of that part and possibly filling it would just make the piece look too thick?

Also do you mind showing us what material you are using for reference pics and your opinion on whether or not its worth getting? This is for my own build I will eventually do

Best images are from gurneyflap, as linked to above.

I actually bought one of those F1 photo books that Mr Hiro produces - I have to say that for THIS car (FW16) I was very disappointing - lots of pictures of the full car and skin - very very few of any engineering details - about 3 pics of partial engine, no pictures of brakes etc - the images on gurneyflap are waaaaay better.

Annoying as those books are not cheap. The one for the Mp4/4 is much better...

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Looked at trying to sort out the Ferrari parts today, annoying that MFH put all the white metal parts randomly into zip lock bags,
would help if they were marked but their not, or even if parts were together ie, Engine in one suspension/breaks etc in another but their not, so sorting everything into some sort of sense regarding whats what is a headache.

Ah well at least you get to study the bits a little more before you start than a normal kit I suppose

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Love the look of the model caterhamnut. I'm thinking about ordering direct from MFH but I'm moving back to Australia in January so I don't know if I should wait until then - did delivery take long?

Good luck with the rest of the build - I'll be following with interest.

Andy

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Best images are from gurneyflap, as linked to above.

I actually bought one of those F1 photo books that Mr Hiro produces - I have to say that for THIS car (FW16) I was very disappointing - lots of pictures of the full car and skin - very very few of any engineering details - about 3 pics of partial engine, no pictures of brakes etc - the images on gurneyflap are waaaaay better.

Annoying as those books are not cheap. The one for the Mp4/4 is much better...

Thanks for the info, Yes I find that these books can sometimes be hit and miss and considering the cost its a little bit of a gamble sometimes.

I have the MP4/5b book and that has pretty good reference pics, thanks for the advice on the MP4/4

Love the look of the model caterhamnut. I'm thinking about ordering direct from MFH but I'm moving back to Australia in January so I don't know if I should wait until then - did delivery take long?

Good luck with the rest of the build - I'll be following with interest.

Andy

Hey Andy,

My suggestion would be to buy it in the UK or USA (this is where I presume you are atm). The exchange rate here in Australia is terrible against the USD, UK Sterling and most importantly the Japanese Yen.

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Delivery to NYC was actually very quick.

Sent out the day I ordered, great communication....

Edited by caterhamnut

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Rough finish on the front wing even shows through the stickers:

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Although I wouldn't regard it as a 'rough' finish, the carbon weave pattern can be seen under the paint of period performance road cars...Good examples would be the Alfa TZ and Ferrari F40. I once met an Alfa owner that had his TZ re-prepped and painted as he couldn't live with it!

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Looked at trying to sort out the Ferrari parts today, annoying that MFH put all the white metal parts randomly into zip lock bags,

would help if they were marked but their not, or even if parts were together ie, Engine in one suspension/breaks etc in another but their not, so sorting everything into some sort of sense regarding whats what is a headache.

Ah well at least you get to study the bits a little more before you start than a normal kit I suppose

Yep - I think they could package these bits far better!! I don't mind the random packaging so much as the fact that a lot of the parts are rather bent out of shape - I expect a little of this, but in the MP23 kit I have there is a very delicate part of barge-board that on one side has been flattened, and the other side has broken. I'm going to request new parts - I know that on the instructions MFH says that 'parts may require re-shaping' but in this case an movement will snap the part.

Similarly, some very curvaceous wing elements are bent, and it will be very hard to reshape this to accurately mirror the other elements that they are adjacent to. Straightening a bent 'rod' is far easier....

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For ref - here is the book I got for the MP4/4 build - it is superb in terms of mechanical detail:

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The one I got for the FW16 (will post a picture when I can find one/when it is in front of me!) is not nearly as useful.

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Definitely jealous you have this car, this cameos just after I got one of the mfh big cars recently I plumped for the f2008 Brazil car but it has no engine detail what so ever, it's still sitting in my cupboard now as I haven't got any real time for modelling at the moment.

With the texture effect to me it looks quite out of scale, if the full size car is was almost smooth then on a car 1/12 the size it would be almost unnoticeable surely, knowing how much this cost I am in 2 minds what to suggest, either leave it and see how it looks when done or take sand it down a little but not all the way. Looking at the pictures of the inner side pod ducts I would say the step up looks to big compared to the picture of the same area of the real car also but this is just my opinion

I am going to keep a close eye on this as I have the much cheaper fujimi version and as I love the car and what it symbolises

Shaun

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Cheers Shaun.

I got the MP23 Hamilton car from Brazil, and that too has no engine detail (all just too secret!) - but I am lucky enough to have some great source pics I took at the MTC a few years ago of that very car. I am very tempted to get the Ferrari as well, as another example of a 'modern' car and to complete the 'story' of that race!

The kits with less/no engine detail are at least a little cheaper!

Edited by caterhamnut

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