AnonymousAA72 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) Good luck with this. I like a good Hunter me! It's my understanding that the Sapphire engine Hunters had a vent somewhere on the underside to accommodate the total loss oil system which was a feature of said engine. The consequence of this is that there would be a ruddy great oil streak running along the belly. I've seen photos in the dim and distant but googling comes up with nowt. Typing in "Hunter F.2 underside" only seems to conjure up something very different. I'll keep trying...... Trevor The Avon engined machines also had a small circular vent just aft of the transportation (?) joint. This bled all sorts of crud spreading aft, and it was why the squadrons latterly moved their coloured bars higher up the roundel. The Sapphire engined machines didn't have this vent, so that on the kit should be filled. Edited November 12, 2015 by Bill Clark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 interesting topic. Has anyone done a side by side comparison of the Aeroclub vs Academy Hunters? (says he lazily, having both... though my Aeroclub one are not cut out... and are stashed away...) Isn't the chap who did the Hunter Datafile a member as well? I'm interested to see what Jonners does, as I find his work very well thought out, and personally I find working out what where and how to do improvements the hard part! cheers T PS and alook at the link bob posted... Academy by Paul Bradley Aeroclub by OzH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles87 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 The Hunter's one of my all time favourites so I'll be watching this too. There were lots of ex-Hunter pilots in ATC in the '70s and '80s one particular one I remember well, he flew a Mk5 during the Suez crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 A trial run on 1 intake last night has worked - I'm a lot happier with the shape now. Pics to follow when I'm home this evening Jonners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenMG Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 (edited) Hi Jonners, Always glad to see a Hunter in progress! If it's not too late and you haven't seen it already this - http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234909441-italeri-academy-hunter - is a post I made a while ago with comments on all the things that are 'off' with the Academy/Italeri Hunter. I also posted some details of the too/blunt/bulbous nose. Hope it's useful. Cheers, Mark Edited November 13, 2015 by StephenMG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 Hi Jonners, Always glad to see a Hunter in progress! If it's not too late and you haven't seen it already this - http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234909441-italeri-academy-hunter - is a post I made a while ago with comments on all the things that are 'off' with the Academy/Italeri Hunter. I also posted some details of the too/blunt/bulbous nose. Hope it's useful. Cheers, Mark Hi Mark - it snot too late, and its tremendously useful. Many thanks for pointing it out. I suppose asking if you have refs for the underside of the F2 or F5 to show the Sapphire engine oil vent is a step too far? Cheers Jonners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Some pics of trial fitting. Cockpit is Aeroclub with bits nicked from the NeOmega set, seat is Aeroclub though. As you can see the gun ports are being re-done, which though not difficult is time consuming! Jonners 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 A little more done The boundary layer plates in the intakes are replaced ( the other plates coming down from the intake top need repositioning i've realised! ). Note the plasticard panel which firm ups the intake walls and prevents any flexing when this sub component is installed - there's a reason for doing this Aeroclubs replacement tail cone is built up and the metal exhaust ring faired in. I positioned this a little higher than intended then blended the ring into the plastic to enhance the upswept lower contour on the early "small bore" tail cone. The cannon ports are now replaced with brass tube, which is sanded to shape first then CA'ed in. I'll need a little putty to blend them in but they are a pretty good fit. The jet pipe has its rear opened up, and a basic representation of a Sapphire "hot end" is made to add some interest. You will be able to see this, so its worthwhile! ( its not fixed in yet - hence its unusual angle inside the tube) I've now turned to sorting out the fairing behind the canopy. More pics to follow tomorrow!! I'm loving this kit - there's lots of bits to fix and improve, but nothing too difficult, so it's just fun building. cheers Jonners 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 Morning all! So I've settled on the later ejection port layout - and here's the first side done. The link ejector position is, of course, "conveniently" sited over the filled slot for the Sabrina - so there's a bit of drilling and trimming through the CA and plastic, but hey-ho, it's no fun if it's not just a bit challenging is it! Brass tube is ised for one of the shell ports, and small bits of plastic card form the 'flat-T" shape for link ports. And now for the nose: To add the canopy slide slots, the rear fairing needs to be removed and reduced in width. This allows the rail slots to be added with a scribing tool, then a new sill is added from thin plasticard and the whole thing faired in with filler. At the same time the front of the cockpit where the windscreen goes is levelled out a tad too, and with everything taped together, some energetic sanding is gently applied in a loving fashion to give the nose the plastic equivalent of the Atkins Diet ( or perhaps Tommy Atkins Diet! groan) Removing the rear fairing also means a new top bulkhead can be made for the rear cockpit wall and attached to the tub, allowing the control run fairing to be added, and the whole cockpit will now have some extra detail applied - a darn site easier than trying to work with the split bulkhead. Working with the components taped is trickier than doing this when they are glued, but it does mean the sanding swarf has no chance to contaminate painted areas ( I find plastic dust and dark cockpits dont ever mix - there's always some ingress no matter how much you seal the cockpit, and its a sod to get out). Heres the initial results of the rough sand: To my eyes this all looks far more Hunter, than the (Billy) Bunter fat look before Your opinions are welcomed. cheers, Jonners Ops now suspended for a large Sunday lunch (alas vigorous sanding will not reduce my girth after this...) 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 More excellent work Jonners This one looks more 'right' with every update you post although I keep having to ignore that awful cockpit tub in favour of the parts you have sorted out so far. Have you picked a particular machine to represent yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Sorry Jonners, but those last two photos clearly show that you've put the canard/thrust nozzles in backwards! I'm afraid I didn't quite follow the "abaft the hood" mod, but perhaps once I compare to the kit I'll understand. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 More excellent work Jonners This one looks more 'right' with every update you post although I keep having to ignore that awful cockpit tub in favour of the parts you have sorted out so far. Have you picked a particular machine to represent yet? Cheers Co - I think Im veering to towards an F2, but can't quite decide on 257 or 263 Sqn as yet! ( theres not a lot of choice!) or perhaps a CFE machine, though an F5 is still doable too...... Sorry Jonners, but those last two photos clearly show that you've put the canard/thrust nozzles in backwards! I'm afraid I didn't quite follow the "abaft the hood" mod, but perhaps once I compare to the kit I'll understand. bob Hi Bob - yes the little known "stealth Hunter" mod lives! Stealth Hunter - wasn't that a Chuck Norris film? It should have been.... To explain - the Hunter has two recessed canopy slide rails that run either side of the aft canopy fairing, but the fairing on the kit is the same width as the canopy. To give the model a nod toward versimilitudiness, the fairing width needs reducing to allow these two rail slots to be added. That way the canopy will slide over the fairing like on the real thing, rather than fit flush to it. In reality the un-framed rear of canopy, when closed, overlaps the fairing a little and it's sealed via an inflatable pneumatic internal collar. Its one of those Hunter features that to my mind needs to look right if the model is to look right. Also- early Hunters are so clean that anything that adds a bit of interest, erm...well adds a bit of interest! LOL This may help. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151264350077386&set=a.10151147184402386.497453.699792385&type=3&theater Cheers Jonners, now activly contemplating roast beef, yorkshires, roasties, carrots, gravy and lashings of horse raddish sauce...Mmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Cheers Co - I think Im veering to towards an F2, but can't quite decide on 257 or 263 Sqn as yet! ( theres not a lot of choice!) or perhaps a CFE machine, though an F5 is still doable too...... Cheers Jonners, now activly contemplating roast beef, yorkshires, roasties, carrots, gravy and lashings of horse raddish sauce...Mmmmmm Well the 257 Sqn. option gets my vote as I've always felt the camouflaged Hunter looked better with big bright nose badges but the CFE machine intrigues me as well. Of course doing an early F.5 opens up a couple more options including the 1 or 34 Sqn. artwork with Suez stripes but that depends on what decals you have available. Lunch sounds lovely by the way. Making me hungry now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenMG Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Hi Mark - it snot too late, and its tremendously useful. Many thanks for pointing it out. I suppose asking if you have refs for the underside of the F2 or F5 to show the Sapphire engine oil vent is a step too far? Cheers Jonners Hi Jonners, I think the dirty streak from the Sapphire that is referred to is actually from the upper port side of the fuselage, here... ...and this is an example of the mess it made! In fact, it's visible in the colour photo of the same F.5 you posted in post 22. The Avon Hunters had a similar dirty streak but it was less obvious as it emerged from a vent immediately below the trailing edge fillet of the starboard wing. I tried (not entirely to my satisfaction!) to replicate it in my 1/72 F.1 build a while back... The mods you've made so far look excellent. My only comment is that the link ejection ports are more of a rectangle with two of the corners angled off shape rather than a T shape. Looking at a side view the forward port has its top two corners angled off, and the rear port has its bottom two corners angled off...if you see what I mean! Something like this... Keep up the good work! Mark 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenMG Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) A little more done The boundary layer plates in the intakes are replaced ( the other plates coming down from the intake top need repositioning i've realised! ). Note the plasticard panel which firm ups the intake walls and prevents any flexing when this sub component is installed - there's a reason for doing this Hi again Jonners, Sorry, I didn't spot this earlier. Those plates coming down from the top of the intakes are Academy's poor attempt at representing the directional receiver aerials of the Rebecca Mk.8 DME system. The other 2, the transmitter aerial and the omni-directional receiver aerial, are fitted to the engine starter and engine access doors respectively. However the early Hunters, such as the F.2 and F.5 had a different arrangement of aerials (and used Rebecca Mk.7) and didn't have those aerials in the intakes. So rather than spend time improving them, just chop 'em off and chuck 'em away! Good work on the splitter plates by the way. A vast improvement on Academy's boilerplates! Mark Edited November 15, 2015 by StephenMG 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 Hi again Jonners, Sorry, I didn't spot this earlier. Those plates coming down from the top of the intakes are Academy's poor attempt at representing the directional receiver aerials of the Rebecca Mk.8 DME system. The other 2, the transmitter aerial and the omni-directional receiver aerial, are fitted to the engine starter and engine access doors respectively. However the early Hunters, such as the F.2 and F.5 had a different arrangement of aerials (and used Rebecca Mk.7) and didn't have those aerials in the intakes. So rather than spend time improving them, just chop 'em off and chuck 'em away! Good work on the splitter plates by the way. A vast improvement on Academy's boilerplates! Mark Hi Mark - thanks for all the info. I'd realised that about the intake aerials - when i came to reset them It suddenly dawned on me that they might not be right for the earlier versions. ( A distant memory of a thread her eon BM came to mind - so checked my refs, and got rid of 'em). But thank you for confirming it too. Jus spent an hour making a telescopic box section to bind the two wings together - installed it on the wings, fit was great, really strong, then checked fit with intake trunking and it was in the wrong place- totally fouled by the trunking. What a wally!! Onwards and sideways it seems! Cheers Jonners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Jus spent an hour making a telescopic box section to bind the two wings together - installed it on the wings, fit was great, really strong, then checked fit with intake trunking and it was in the wrong place- totally fouled by the trunking. What a wally!! Onwards and sideways it seems! Cheers Jonners I totally removed all of one side's intake trunking on one of mine, so the wings would fit...I added FOD covers to hide it!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 I totally removed all of one side's intake trunking on one of mine, so the wings would fit...I added FOD covers to hide it!! Believe me Bill, I can well understand that. My wings "were" fitting well, but each subsequent trial fit seems to make things worse. It's still doable though; in fact looking at the shape of the opening compared to the wing I'm starting to think that the two don't actually match up at all!!. Anyway - onto something else: The canopy. Now I've already flattened out the lower line of the cockpit windscreen area as the kit has this sloping upwards when it should be pretty much a flat line with the canopy sill, and sanding down the top of the nose has reduced the large "step" that was there - so the windscreen can fit over and around the curved top cross section rather than into it ( I hope that makes sense) It occurred to me that I ought to make sure the shape of the canopy is correct. So first up I trimmed out my Falcon vac windshield. Didn't look right ( too short and angle of windscreen seems too steep). So next I trimmed Aeroclub's canopy out: Better to my eye, but it seems a bit large: So a bit of judicious sanding to reduce it's height and it looks "OK"..... ....However it's thrown up another issue. The top line the canopy, and the top line of the rear fairing should be pretty much be one gently curved line, transitioning with a smooth curve into the spine. They aren't. I'm starting to think that the shape of Academy's fairing is out: It's too flat along it's top line, and the curve into the spine is too abrupt and doesn't happen forward enough either. If you look at models of the Academy kit this gives the canopy/ fairing line a distinctive kink - which is I think, erm....wrong! I think some sanding will sort this out, but I wonder if anyone else has thought this too? Cheers Jonners PS, I'm at work at the moment - but I'll try and post some pics to show you what I mean 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 Morning all! here are some pics of the canopy: and finally an overlay to try and show what I mean about the rear fairing. Its not a perfect overlay as the side view angles arent exact, but i hope you can see hoe the kit fairing is straighter than the real thing. Fin tip seems too tall too.... cheers Jonners 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 So what's the master plan Jonners: sand back the plastic to better represent the real shape? I'm thinking the cross section when seen from above as in your first photo is a bit fat as well but not able to check the reference pile at the moment to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 So what's the master plan Jonners: sand back the plastic to better represent the real shape? I'm thinking the cross section when seen from above as in your first photo is a bit fat as well but not able to check the reference pile at the moment to be sure. HI Col. - yes i think so. I can back the insides with filler in case I need to sand through - but I think that's probably not the case. looking at the cross section from above - I also think its a bit fat - towards the rear of the fairing. The taper is a bit flatter it seems to me. Cheers Jonners 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I remember why I haven't started my Academy Hunters yet. Duncan B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Interesting Jonners. The hood and windscreen are a great improvement, as for the spine, it certainly looks like it could do with beefing up. I'd maybe consider removing it, adding a wedge of plastic card to the whole length, then re-apply the spine. In fact I may do that on my Shelf of Doom/KUTA Hunter, when I get around to it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 Interesting Jonners. The hood and windscreen are a great improvement, as for the spine, it certainly looks like it could do with beefing up. I'd maybe consider removing it, adding a wedge of plastic card to the whole length, then re-apply the spine. In fact I may do that on my Shelf of Doom/KUTA Hunter, when I get around to it...... Actually Bill - if anything I think the fuselage vertical cross section needs reducing in height, so the spine stays the same, but sits lower in relation to the canopy and canopy fairing. My gut feeling ( and I have NO measurements to confirm this at all I must stress) is that the fuselage is in fact slightly oversize inn terms of cross section. But that would need someone to come along and retool a new kit.... Ahem Airfix!! Hellooooo Jonners 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I remember why I haven't started my Academy Hunters yet. Duncan B 'Cause you're lazy? HI Col. - yes i think so. I can back the insides with filler in case I need to sand through - but I think that's probably not the case. looking at the cross section from above - I also think its a bit fat - towards the rear of the fairing. The taper is a bit flatter it seems to me. Cheers Jonners I was thinking it needs to curve in a bit more; a convex shape rather than the way it's been moulded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now