1/72 - Grumman Martlet Mk.IV by Airfix - released

[Dave Fleming]

Bruce ties down the Martlet/Wildcats here, although I believe he has done some later research into FM2 lengths (Their cowl was different again) and there may be slightly more recent stuff on II/IIIs

http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/wildcatfaaba_1.htm

I must admit to fully expecting Airfix to do a II or V.

[occa]

Whether my dimensions are in inches or mm is really irrelevant, the dimension doesn't change because of the units I used. But, if I do the conversion by multiplying by 25.4 mm/inch, the Airfix kit measures 160.8mm and the Hasegawa is 157.8 mm; 3mm too short and the difference between the two kits is all in the width of the fuselage. The quoted wingspan of 11.58 m (37.99 ft) is equivalent to 160.83 mm in 1/72 scale.

Strange, I measured 160.3 mm for the Hase wingspan ... straight line from tip to tip ...

Wonder what result others get ...

[VMA131Marine]

Strange, I measured 160.3 mm for the Hase wingspan ... straight line from tip to tip ...

Wonder what result others get ...

It's not that strange. 2 people with different measuring instruments measuring different examples of the same kit and our measurements are within 1.5% of each other. That's not bad, it's just not good enough for this purpose.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Have to say, it does look like they've made a II/IV hybrid.....And I consider myself an impartial observer here as it has neither tracks nor a gun worthy of the name.

[occa]

It's not that strange. 2 people with different measuring instruments measuring different examples of the same kit and our measurements are within 1.5% of each other. That's not bad, it's just not good enough for this purpose.

It's not that we are in the medieval times where every shire had their own measuring stick lol ...

I will post an assembled kit held over grid paper later ...

[Garry c]

Gentlemen,

The Grumman factory measurement from the center line to the inner edge of the flap is 30 inches or 60 inches from flap to flap. In 1/72 scale this equals 21.17 mm. At this spot the Hasegawa kit measures 20.2 mm, the Airfix kit measures 22.0 mm. Factory measurement is from page 70 of : Aircraft Pictorial 4 , F4F Wildcat by Dana Bell.

Garry

[Dennis_C]

Why no one refers to the recent Airfix F4F-4 thread with Airfix fuselage comparison against FM-2 photo? Apart from the spine question, fuselage looked to be spot on shapewise.

With the Martlet, I personally do not see any disasters except for the cowling which is definitely not Martlet IV's. I'm not in US WWII theme but was thinking about building a quick and easy Martlet. Looks like this kit will require some extra effort so let's wait for its release.

[VMA131Marine]

Gentlemen,

The Grumman factory measurement from the center line to the inner edge of the flap is 30 inches or 60 inches from flap to flap. In 1/72 scale this equals 21.17 mm. At this spot the Hasegawa kit measures 20.2 mm, the Airfix kit measures 22.0 mm. Factory measurement is from page 70 of : Aircraft Pictorial 4 , F4F Wildcat by Dana Bell.

Garry

So the upshot is Hasegawa is a bit narrow, Airfix is a bit wide, and, in the end, you go with whichever you think looks best.

[VMA131Marine]

Why no one refers to the recent Airfix F4F-4 thread with Airfix fuselage comparison against FM-2 photo? Apart from the spine question, fuselage looked to be spot on shapewise.

With the Martlet, I personally do not see any disasters except for the cowling which is definitely not Martlet IV's. I'm not in US WWII theme but was thinking about building a quick and easy Martlet. Looks like this kit will require some extra effort so let's wait for its release.

The working theory is that Airfix Martlet will actually build into a fairly accurate Martlet II. This type has the PW Twin Wasp with the long chord cowl, folding 6-gun wings, and the carb intake and intercooler intakes were deleted from the cowl. The future Airfix Martlet will have all these features, we just have to get Airfix to provide Martlet II markings for it. It is a shame that Airfix hasn't got this right as there have been no1/72 kit of the Martlet IV produced to date. The only kits of the Wright powered Wildcats with the short chord cowl are by AZ models: the Martlet I and G-36A, which have the non-folding wing. The FROG kit was sold as a Wildcat Mk.IV, but the plastic is for an F4F-4. There are no Wright Cyclone powered options among the available 1/48th scale kits.

Edited November 9, 2015 by VMA131Marine

[Dennis_C]

The working theory is that Airfix Martlet will actually build into a fairly accurate Martlet II. This type has the PW Twin Wasp with the long chord cowl, folding 6-gun wings, and the carb intake and intercooler intakes were deleted from the cowl. The future Airfix Martlet will have all these features, we just have to get Airfix to provide Martlet II markings for it.

Ok, I see. So looks like this might be easy Martlet II build provided decals are bought separately.

[Denford]

Ok, I see. So looks like this might be easy Martlet II build provided decals are bought separately.

Cue Xtradecal

[Dave Fleming]

Depends how accurate their Wright cowl is, because the plan view was quite different (Tapered sides on the P+W one, straight on the Wright)

[occa]

Why no one refers to the recent Airfix F4F-4 thread with Airfix fuselage comparison against FM-2 photo? Apart from the spine question, fuselage looked to be spot on shapewise.

With the Martlet, I personally do not see any disasters except for the cowling which is definitely not Martlet IV's. I'm not in US WWII theme but was thinking about building a quick and easy Martlet. Looks like this kit will require some extra effort so let's wait for its release.

Where is that thread, can you link to it please ?

[VMA131Marine]

Depends how accurate their Wright cowl is, because the plan view was quite different (Tapered sides on the P+W one, straight on the Wright)

Martlet II has the PW engine and the cowl on the test shot looks like the correct long chord version. The Wright R-1820 Cyclone was only fitted to the export G-36A, Martlet I, Martlet IV, and the FM-2 (although the FM-2 has a completely different cowl and the exhausts were relocated). The only potential problem I see is if Airfix provides the Martlet kit with the Wright engine instead of the PW. Then it won't be possible to build any version accurately out of the box, though the easiest thing to do will be to source a PW R-1830 and build as a Martlet II.

[Dave Fleming]

Martlet II has the PW engine and the cowl on the test shot looks like the correct long chord version. The Wright R-1820 Cyclone was only fitted to the export G-36A, Martlet I, Martlet IV, and the FM-2 (although the FM-2 has a completely different cowl and the exhausts were relocated).

And the FM2 foward fuselage was shorter than the I/IV but longer than the F4F :-)

(BTW, not sure anyone has mentioned it, but the reason for the fuselage length increase was because the Wright engine was lighter than the PW one, so it was moved forward to maintain Centre of Gravity. If I recall correctly there was a framework forward of the firewall that held the engine).

The fact they have provided a separate cowl suggests that it's 'different' in some way from the F4F one =- whether that's just the intake or if it's shaped different5ly we shall see

Edited November 9, 2015 by Dave Fleming

[occa]

Gentlemen,

The Grumman factory measurement from the center line to the inner edge of the flap is 30 inches or 60 inches from flap to flap. In 1/72 scale this equals 21.17 mm. At this spot the Hasegawa kit measures 20.2 mm, the Airfix kit measures 22.0 mm. Factory measurement is from page 70 of : Aircraft Pictorial 4 , F4F Wildcat by Dana Bell.

Garry

Actually the Hase is 20.8 mm there where the inner front edge of the flap meets the fuselage, at the trailing edge of the flap it is a little less, 20.5 mm, the wing attatchment lines are slightly angled inwards towards the rear (in planview) with the Hasegaw kit, that's where the little difference comes from.

The Airfix is 22.2 mm there, it has the wing attachment joint lines in parallel.

All measured with a precision slide ruler with the fuselage halves firmly taped together.

Here are the two fuselage parts for comparison:

Second (sorry blurred) pic only added to show the differences on the fin which I hadn't even noticed before

[Garry c]

I was holding the fuselage together with my fingers when measuring and may have squeezed a bit too much.

Garry

Edited November 9, 2015 by Garry c

[VMA131Marine]

Actually the Hase is 20.8 mm there where the inner front edge of the flap meets the fuselage, at the trailing edge of the flap it is a little less, 20.5 mm, the wing attatchment lines are slightly angled inwards towards the rear (in planview) with the Hasegaw kit, that's where the little difference comes from.

The Airfix is 22.2 mm there, it has the wing attachment joint lines in parallel.

All measured with a precision slide ruler with the fuselage halves firmly taped together.

Here are the two fuselage parts for comparison:

Second (sorry blurred) pic only added to show the differences on the fin which I hadn't even noticed before

It is possible to put the two fuselage halves together so that the only real difference is at the bottom of the fuselage starting just behind the lower windows and moving forward

[Fernando]

Hi, all,

Regardless of the minutiae inaccuracies and differences in fuselage depth (and others, which are fairly typical of any kit), the main issue is that the kit is no Martlet IV. The amount of work you have to put into it to make it resemble one is similar to converting any other F4F kit on the market. Pity.

Fernando

[occa]

It is possible to put the two fuselage halves together so that the only real difference is at the bottom of the fuselage starting just behind the lower windows and moving forward

Yes can do, later this evening ...

[Greenshirt]

Fernando, my impression is that if one ignores the inaccuracies (as one would the Hasegawa kit) then a close Mk IV could be made by placing a couple of mm plug on the fuselage and trimming the same amount from the cowling. Refit/scribe the cowl flaps of course.

For a Mk II, you need the same P&W engine from the F4F boxing...so that needs sourcing to sort. Otherwise modify the F4F cowl to look like a Mk II cowl by removing the scoop on top and rescribing the cowl flaps.

If memory serves me, and I'd appreciate a correction if wrong, but the difference in fuselage length was 7 inches: 15 inches from wing LE to cowl on the P&W variants and 22 inches on the Cyclone variants. The cowls were shortened by the same amount for the Cyclone variants such that overall length remained unchanged on all variants.

Tim

[Seahawk]

I have been following this thread with interest but have been too busy to chip in till now. The following relates not to Airfix's misinterpretation of what a Wildcat IV is but the issues with the current F4F-4 kit. In the meantime much of my thunder has been stolen by Garry C (post 61) and VMA131Marine in another now closed thread: apologies for some rehashing of points already made.

The reported problems with the Airifx Wildcat (setting aside Airfix's fundamental misunderstanding of what a Martlet IV is) are twofold, firstly the alleged over-fat fuselage and secondly the canopy/fuselage spine.

“Fat” fuselage. I must say this does not grate for me, however in the interest of injecting some facts into the discussion I have compared the Academy (nee Frog), Hasegawa and Airfix fuselages. The baseline for comparison has been the Dana Bell drawings in Detail and Scale 30: if Dana has produced anything more authoritative since or you prefer other drawings, stop reading now. Taking meaningfull comparative measurements on compound-curving surfaces is not easy. I have therefore compared the distance between the wing-root panel lines on all 3 kits. Kit measurements have been taken with a micrometer screwgauge and adjusted to metric using a conversion factor of 1 inch = 25.4mm. The measurements for the Academy, Airfix and Hasegawa kits are 23.24, 22.12 and 20.11mm respectively compared to the measurement from Dana's drawing of 21.2mm (as close as my eye can detect to Garry C's “official” measurement via Grumman and Dana of 21.17mm). The FROG/Academy kit is clearly bloated and omitted from any further consideration. The bottom line is that the Airfix kit is about 1.0mm too wide and the Hasegawa about 1.1mm too narrow. So they are both wrong, by about the same amount but in different directions. In other comparisons with Dana's drawings

• the Hasegawa kit is bang on the money as far as the length from rudder post to rear edge of the engine cowling, the Airfix about 1mm too long. The discrepancy is in the panel below the windscreen, with the flap-like hatches on it.

• The Airfix kit seems to be missing a bit from the leading edge of the fin and rudder, starting at the panel line immediately forward of the tailplane leading edge and increasing to about 1.2mm by the top of the fin. The Hasegawa fin outline is much better but not perfect.

• The Airfix fuselage otherwise matches the outline of Dana's drawings perfectly. In partticular it captures the barely perceptible curve in the Wildcat's spine: the Hasegawa one less so.

• As one might expect if the fuselage diameter is too small, the Hasegawa fuselage is in part too shallow. Divergence from Dana's drawings starts around the vertical panel line immediately behind the cockpit, reaches 1.5mm by the wheel wells but recovers to be almost on the money by the rear of the cowling front ring.

• The Hasegawa cockpit rear bulkhead is about 1mm too far forward.

So far so good. Neither kit is perfect: you just choose which set of imperfections grate on you less. At this stage I think I give the nod to the Airfix kit on the grounds of another factor, the vastly superior cockpit and wheelwheel detail which put the Hasegawa kit to shame. From the box t's about as good as a Hasegawa kit upgraded with the True Details cockpit/wheel-well set. Okay, so the rear of the firewall is not detailed but you are not going to see much of it through all that struttery that Airfix reproduce more faithfully than anyone else to date.

So to the canopy/spine. The sliding portion of the Wildcat canopy was of constant section, rather like a Hurricane's. The Hasegawa kit reflects this, the Airfix kit conspicuously does not, the canopy getting noticeably more squat towards the rear. The Clearvax canopy cannot help here: designed for the FROG/Academy kit, it is far too deep and wide. Surprisingly the Hasegawa canopy will almost fit but is about 1mm too narrow and 0.5mm too high. (The cockpit sills are about 0.5mm higher on the Airfix kit (result of that over-corpulent fuselage?) than on the Hasegawa: from Dana's drawings Hasegawa seem to be right. ) So, contrary to some of what was said when the kit first emerged, the spine profile was not compromised to permit an open canopy option. As for cross-section, the breadth of the Airfix spine looks about right from Dana's plan view but the cross-section of the cockpit rear bulkhead looks a little fat compared with the photo on p.45 of D+S 65 (also on the Wildcat but drawings not by Dana). I'm inclined to believe an over-thick spine is more the issue than an over-diameter fuselage. Overall, I'm convinced it ought not to be beyond the wit of man to devise a new cockpit canopy (closed option at least) based on the Hasegawa (or Dana's) side profile but with adjustments made for the differing dimensions of the Airfix fuselage. It might not be 100% accurate but it would look a sight better. For my money, we would then have probably the best 1/72 Wildcat on the market. It remains to be seen whether Airfix will do this themselves (cf the various quiet corrections to their Bae Hawk kits) or the aftermarket industry will get there first. Until then, for me at least, because of the canopy error this kit fails the basic test: it DOESN'T look like a Wildcat tto me - and I'll be sticking to my Hasegawa kits.

And to those who say, “Why not put these points to Airfix direct rather than blethering away to other anoraks on a website?”, I reply, “Good point: maybe I will.”

Edited November 10, 2015 by Seahawk

[tonyot]

What a pity,....I really wanted to model a Martlet Mk.IV but the forthcoming Airfix kit is definitely more like a Mk.II (apart from the engine), even when it comes to the propeller as the Mk.IV actually used a totally different prop to that provided,.....shouldn`t the Mk.IV have a fatterHamilton Standard style hub?

If Airfix retain the engine sprue from the F4F-4 and change the decal to a Mk.II they could just release it as this version instead,....they could even add the unusual Z shaped upper wing pitot mast used on some Mk.II`s.

Cheers

Tony

[Albert RN]

Please refrain from posting if you only contribute mockery, the span of 38 feet is mentioned elsewhere too.

Where have I landed, in the national kit fight club ?

This is really getting silly ...

Quoting Wikipedia, another kit and colour profiles as reference sources isn't going to win you credibility either.

[Mitch K]

So they are both wrong, by about the same amount but in different directions.

Neither kit is perfect: you just choose which set of imperfections grate on you less.

Here we have it.