Jump to content
This site uses cookies! Learn More

This site uses cookies!

You can find a list of those cookies here: mysite.com/cookies

By continuing to use this site, you agree to allow us to store cookies on your computer. :)

Sign in to follow this  
Homebee

1/72 - Breguet Br.521 Bizerte by Azur-FRROM - project cancelled

Recommended Posts

FRROM is currently studying the idea of a 1/72nd Breguet Br.521 Bizerte kit.

The brand would like to hear modellers about this project.

The planning and explanations are here: http://www.frrom.com/index.php?page=frrom-frxx-2µ

Gbr521-bizerte.jpg?resize=330%2C186Gbr521-bizerte-2.jpg?resize=362%2C186

Gbr521-bizerte-index.jpg?resize=356%2C18Gbr521-bizerte-3.jpg?resize=336%2C189

Source: http://www.avionslegendaires.net/avion-militaire/breguet-br-521-bizerte/#photos

Quote

FRXX Breguet Bizerte

Project : a Breguet Bizerte kit in 1/72 nd, injected plastic

We are thinking about producing a kit in 1/72 nd scale of the Breguet Bizerte. Considering the size of this flying boat, the public price should be a little less than 70 euros, which is a quite big amount but in the same range than some 1/32 nd kits. We might also go for a Bizerte in 1/144 th scale, that would be more affordable. We have not seen any mainstream kit maker going for a Bizerte in the coming years nor doing one since the sixties (beginning of injected plastic kits), so there is a very slim probability to have a Bizerte popping out if we don't start doing one. But we are facing risks, we have to manage them (this is a project).

Delivery : in three years, we get the kit (schedule to confirm - in reality three years after start of project)

Documentation : a book is cooking in Artipresse publications, we should get here the Bizerte bible (we only need our friend Gérard Bousquet to finish the volume 4 of 'Les Ailes françaises', in one week according to him), then we would go for the book Bizerte (text ready, reviewed and corrected). Anyway, we have access to this documentation and we will pass it to the manufacturer (MPM, who defined a Sunderland, having the capacity of dealing with a kit this size). An other book on Breguet planes went out in Lela Press (second volume under press, if we get it right). And... we are betting there are still unplublished documentations and pictures, who knows ?

Boxes, quantities : two boxes of 1000 units or, more probably, three boxes of 800 (2 400 kits), we might have one box for French Navy until june armistice, one box Vichy + Luftwaffe, one box French after armistice.

Intended plan:

  • first, check the opportunity, check if people are interested (get email adresses and names) during two or three months. Build the final plan in parallel and submit it
  • Confirmation of project, definition of the macro-tasks (probably three steps and three checkpoints)
  • Subscription of first step, realization (probably : 3D design and/or master design)
  • Subsription of second step, realization (molds - to check)
  • Realization of third step (production, definition of decals, boxes, building instructions, etc)
  • Sale to public, shipment of kits to subscribers (first and second steps)
Price on first step, second step and public price will not be the same (obviously getting up). In other words, first step subscribers will pay less than second step subscribers, these ones paying less than public price. So the 1 st step subscibers will pay on project start and will wait three years for the kit. Second step subscribers will wait less and pay more (still less than public price) We will see if we should put in place (or not) a third subscription step (same rule).

If there is not enough public attention for the project (in other words, if risks are too high), we will not launch the project. If we launch the first subscription and finally go back, we will naturally reimbourse the subscribers. And we will timely report on project advance.

This is a first idea, we will have to work on it (with you), we will attend the Telford meeting (in MPM booth) and we may discuss the project. We will start soon collecting the names and addresses of persons who are interested (if you already want to show your interest, just put in the mail title : Bizerte - and maybe the quantity, for example ten !).

This aircraft is really appealing, it deserves a nice kit in 1/72 nd scale, doesn't it ?

 

V.P.

 

MattMemory2.jpg

Edited by Homebee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's certainly a very interesting project.

I'll buy one but it has to be to lets say 97% accurate proportion and shapewise, also from details that are visible on photos like for example the fabric covered rear engine nacelle covers, otherwise no ...

We have to to teach the manufacturers to pay attention lol ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd say a big yes on this one - we need more biplane flying boats.

Regards,

Jason

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Jason, Its a big yes for me too, especially if its done in 1/72 :winkgrin: I applaud companies like FRROM who are intersested in producing aircraft types like these, kind regards Colin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was a pretty good vacuform kit of Bizerte done by French company Aerovac in 1/72nd scale. It included some short-run injection parts (I believe also done by MPM) and decals.

Due to the large number of different types of French flying boats done prior to WW2, I wouldn't support this idea just because of the subject being already kitted and would support instead some other type which has not been kitted so far at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent news! - if they studying "depth of the market" here - I can promise buying one :)

Jerzy-Wojtek

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are interested, please register in the FRROM site (contact - with the number of kits you would take). If there are not enough registrations, the project will go nowhere (registrations should turn LATER into subscriptions, at a price that should be 30 % lower than public price). The project is described in the site, we are in phase 0 (raise awareness and count the registered persons and kits).

If it works - we might go LATER for other projects, provided enough persons would take a kit (the Bizerte is somewhat a prototype and proof of concept, as we may say).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aerovac Bizertes are sold for ridiculous amount of money on eBay. But Latecoere 32*, 52* and 62* are even more expensive

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only the French could take a Short Singapore, add a conservatory to the sharp end and make it even uglier! I've put my hand up for a couple. From what I've seen of their stuff, FRROM seem to have a reasonable track record of getting the details right. And who knows - if this one works, maybe we can talk Gilles into doing some of those Lates ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd love a Singapore - how much work would it take to make a Singapore from a Bizerte, apart from the engines and removing the garden room from the front?

Regards,

Jason

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd love a Singapore - how much work would it take to make a Singapore from a Bizerte, apart from the engines and removing the garden room from the front?

Regards,

Jason

I wouldn't discourage anybody to buy a Bizerte and try to convert it into a Singapore. The amount of work will be quite high probably. The Bizerte was not a modified Singapore, from what I understand.

Breguet bought the licence for the Short Calcutta and built 5 of them for the French Navy. He used the same construction techniques (all metal) on the Breguet Bizerte, but it doesn't appear he took straight away parts from the Calcutta to go for the Bizerte. Apart from beeing floatplanes, big biplanes and having the engines between the wings, probably not a lot of pieces (if any) could be taken from a Bizerte to use for a Calcutta, and probably less again to re-use for a Singapore.

Dimensions :

Wingspan Bizerte 35,13m Calcutta 28,32 Singapore 27,43

Lenght Bizerte 20,48m Calcutta 20,35 Singapore 19,56

Wing area Bizerte 170m2 Calcutta 170 Singapore 136

Well, according to dimensions, Bizerte and Calcutta are quite close. If the wings were of the same chord, maybe you have something. We should check the sources and see if parts were reused.

You should check on Ailes Françaises (in french, Gérard Bousquet, Artipresse) or in French Flying Boats of WWII (in english, Gérard Bousquet, Mushroom), unfortunately I can't reach these books for the moment.

Edited by Gilles_53

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Gilles

Put me for one . Can't afford me a whole squadron !

Mail sent.

Madcop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

News: http://frrom.com/index.php?page=frrom-fr0xx-2

Project Bizerte

Project : a Breguet Bizerte kit in 1/72 nd, in injected plastic.

Status : 70 kits reserved on 05 th of Nov, 2015 (thanks to IPMS Belgium and some other groups !). We are progressing. If you are interested, please register or the project might not even start for real...

FR0999_Ap.jpg

Last information (05/12/2015) :

  • We have bought the rights on the Aerovac Bizerte kit. we will use this kit as a basis to define the modifications we should perform (hull, according to Gérard Bousquet, should be improved, wings are fine).
  • We will meet the Special Hobby team in January 2016 and will discuss the project (costs, schedule, project plan including the communication plan... ). We will keep you updated.
  • Thank you for all the messages, this confirms the kit potential and helps us in this project. The critical factor, nevertheless, is the number of kits reserved by the registered persons.
  • We have requested a box art, expecting it to be appealling to potential subscribers
We are thinking about producing a kit in 1/72 nd scale of the Breguet Bizerte. Considering the size of this flying boat, the public price should be a little less than 70 euros, which is a quite big amount but in the same range than some 1/32 nd kits. We might also go for a Bizerte in 1/144 th scale, that would be more affordable. We have not foreseen any mainstream kit maker going for a Bizerte in the coming years nor doing one since the sixties (beginning of injected plastic kits), so there is a very slim probability to have a Bizerte popping out if we don't start doing one. But we are facing risks, we have to manage them (this is a project).

We have started to build a project plan, you may have a look to dedicated pages to see the project plan and the profiles (these may or not be the ones we will get in the boxes). Price should be with a discount of 30 % on public pric (in France), that would give a kit at around 40 to 50 (all taxes included - without transportation - for subscribers at beginning of project). We have to work on the prices, anyway if you are interested in such a kit, please register in the site Contact page, we may get a lower price at subscription depending on number of subscribers.

V.P.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... The Bizerte was not a modified Singapore, from what I understand.

Dimensions :

Wingspan Bizerte 35,13m Calcutta 28,32 Singapore 27,43

Lenght Bizerte 20,48m Calcutta 20,35 Singapore 19,56

Wing area Bizerte 170m2 Calcutta 170 Singapore 136

Well, according to dimensions, Bizerte and Calcutta are quite close. If the wings were of the same chord, maybe you have something. We should check the sources and see if parts were reused.

The Bizerte wings have the shortest chord of the trio mentioned. Then follows the Singapore, while Calcutta/Rangoon have the longest chord. There's still another one member of this family that's worth mention - the Kawanishi H3K, which uses Rangoon chord combined with (almost) Bizerte span, thus making some 214 m2 area.

Cheers

Michael

Edited by KRK4m

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I confirm - still want to buy one. I am sure they are customers for ramaining 2399...

An advise to producer if I may - I think that prototype variants can be left for scratch or aftermarket modifications. The machine is enough rare that main production series is very attractive.

Cheers

J-W

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about this model? Anybody knows? Is it still approaching sometime?

Cheers

J-W

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, JWM said:

What about this model? Anybody knows? Is it still approaching sometime?

Cheers

J-W

 

I heard it was cancelled due to not enough paid pre-orders and the costs too high in general, or at least in that direction ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad I've still got the Aerovac one. It's a very nice kit by vacform standards, along with the big Farmans and Latecoeres they did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, occa said:

I heard it was cancelled due to not enough paid pre-orders and the costs too high in general, or at least in that direction ...

That a sad news...

Regards

J-W

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder what would happen if somebody set up a kickstarter to crowd fund a new kit ? Say a Venom or Singapore in 72.  AFAIK  none of the smaller manufacturers have done this . (Basicly people pledge to buy to the kit and once the targets reached ,you pay and it gets produced . ) A lot of wargaming stuff is made following this model and it seems successful.  It even extended to new puppet episodes of Thunderbirds getting made for the 50th anniversary . I'm surprised nobody's done it yet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of all the French WW2 aircraft I want to do, it is the Breguet 521. When the project was first raised, I added my support and it is nice to see it come this far with the possible release later this year.  Like the previous comment, if you are RNZAF modeller and you desire a Fairy Gordon or Short Singapore - crowd funding maybe the way to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...