thepureness Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Hi guys I've recently purchased an Academy 1/72 P-47D bubble top, looking at the options online I could see it came with a SEAC option, Kit has arrived this morning and opening the box it did have a SEAC option but the colour call outs are for dark green and ocean gray over MSG, this doesn't see correct, as I want under the understanding that it was dark earth and dark green over MSG, Is this a cock up by academy, or were no. 615 sqdn Thundebolt MK II's in dark green/ocean gray. I've found a few builds online, were the model was painting in the colours of the instructions while others are in the dark earth/dark green colours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Have a look here http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/78328-seac-colors-for-p-47-t-bolt-mki/ http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234912569-raf-two-tone-green-thunderbolts-in-burma/ Cheers Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) The RAF Thunderbolts were in DG/DE, according to the official instructions and the best research available - look for the book on RAF Thunderbolts by Geoff Thomas. However, I do know of one modeller who painted his green and grey because that's that his father told him - and he was flying the beast. Thomas does talk of the tropical conditions fading and discolouring the paints. Some of the photos of very late examples do appear to show the very light appearance of faded Ocean Grey, but as long as we are relying upon interpreting b&w photos it would be wrong to claim that as any kind of confirmation. Thunderbolts were delivered in DG/OG (or substitutes) and were seen in the UK and at the OTU in Egypt in these colours. Here they had European roundels rather than the SEAC blue/blue. Edited November 2, 2015 by Graham Boak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) The only known colour photo shows Dark Green/Dark earth, but I can beleive that in the rush to get aircraft to the frontline, they could have left some in DFS. Also, look at the weathering on the wing l/e THE ROYAL AIR FORCE IN INDIA AND BURMA, JANUARY 1945. © IWM (TR 2637)IWM Non Commercial Licence This is the painting Nick mentions: http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/paintings/thunderbolts-burma-no-910-wing-taking-off-from-strip-meik136208 Edited November 2, 2015 by Dave Fleming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomBigStu Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Probably likely there were some in both, even if temporary, painted grey in the uk before delivery to the Far East Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) Probably likely there were some in both, even if temporary, painted grey in the uk before delivery to the Far East No, they were painted green/grey in the USA before delivery to the UK, then repainted in SEAC Edited November 2, 2015 by Dave Fleming 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) Nick: were these Spitfires the 607 Sq. examples that he drew in pencil? If so, do you have an electronic copy of it? I'd greatly appreciate seeing it. Oh dear, I feel another 607 Sq. Spitfire Mk.VIII coming on. The rendition in Wooton's painting is very dark to have been Ocean Grey. Could they be the original US colours of Olive Drab and Sea Grey? Perhaps. My first impression was that it was an unusual shade of Dark Green with Dark Earth. The P-47 painting certainly represents the green on the (nominally) green and grey aircraft different from that on the (nominally) green and brown aircraft, so could this just be because the central aircraft has the fuselage directly lit whereas the others do not? Edited November 2, 2015 by Graham Boak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Thanks very much for the direction to the Spitfire painting, or rather paintings, although they raise much the same queries. For example, the darker colour is around the cockpit (of AF.N) which is where the green would be, not the grey. Similarly the browner shade is were the DE should be. Ocean Grey is notorious for fading even in temperate climes. It may have been that dark when fresh but after some time in the tropics? The arguments in favour of DFS in the SEAC theatre have tended to be based on the very light appearance of one colour on faded aircraft, something Thomas spends some time discussing, as I'm sure you're aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I don't believe that can be a Wootton painting as it was still being painted in April 2013 and Frank Wootton died in 1998! http://www.wetcanvas.com/Community/images/03-Apr-2013/984204-FB3APR13.jpg The artist wrote: "This particular painting is being done in tribute to the war artist, the late Frank Wootton who worked for an extended period at Meiktila in WWII. All of the paintings he did at the time were in haste and almost abstract in nature, whereas I have the benefit of both time and peace, neither of which Frank had." Thanks for posting the Wootton Thunderbolts pic though! Nick Woops! trouble with using Google! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepureness Posted November 2, 2015 Author Share Posted November 2, 2015 So, I think with this, I can say I'm good to paint this P-47D in TLS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwart Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 A painting of strong sunlight hitting the fuselage,a photo of strong sunlight hitting the fuselage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I'm not sure how much milage I'd give to sun glare in a painting versus a photograph. Holidaying in the Caribbean, for example, is an extremely bright, glaring and vivid experience and if trying to paint what you saw there you'd paint very bright colours and glare. When you get home and look at your holiday photos however it looks like a moderately pleasant day in Aberdeen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwart Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 If you examine the original photographic print you can see that the fuselage side is badly worn with the original grey paint almost fully exposed. Strong sunlight is also hitting H-AW in Wootton's painting but he hasn't painted it grey. As Graham notes above the demarcations between brown, green and grey are problematic. Nick Yup,and the P-47 in the background in the photograph is the same.In the piece of the aircraft i cropped from the painting no one has mentioned the Azure blue under the nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 We might be at risk of taking a painting too literally? The TLS T'Bolt appears to have a fuselage painted in RAL 6010 Grun but this is art and he's trying to portray how things looked as he saw them. I'm happy to accept that painting some aeroplanes grey and others brown was a conscious observation, but the rest of the effects, tones and hues I think are more down to how he perceived them when mixing on his pallete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I did consider the underside colour, but you need also to look at the undercarriage door on the same aircraft, which is much more a light grey with little or no blue. I don't think that the evidence for Azure Blue or Sky Blue or Medium Sea Grey (which does contain some blue) is convincing. Generally speaking, I regard an artist as a better guide to the colour on any aircraft than another observer. But when it comes to creating an artwork rather than simply describing what he's seen, then other factors do affect the composition. For example, Dennis Barnham described the Spitfire he flew on Malta as either blue or blue-grey (with another in yellow and brown), but he painted it with a strong blue and a Bf109 as black - I don't suspect for one moment that was the colour of any Bf109 that he saw. Wootton's art is generally closer to being representative than Barnham's but is clearly not photographic. I interpret these aircraft as being DG/DE but suspect that the colours he saw (and represented) may not have been quite the standard shades we see in the published paint chips or in the tins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwart Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I completely agree with your comment about an artist being a better observer,the Azure blue was just me being facetious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Millman Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 the Azure blue was just me being facetious. I see. I thought the discussion was a serious one. My mistake. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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