keefr22 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 These are great books; history of the development and use of the aircraft, stories from those who flew and maintained them, lots of great pictures and a bundle of profiles. Mainly FAA types but at least one other in the Hunter, which may have FAA references but it's the one I don't have. There's also a Sabre volume which concentrates solely on the RAF's use of the jet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Y'see, there's a significant benefit to being a glider pilot... Provided the aircraft started out that way, of course. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I hadn't seen the Target Lock item on Jag-wires Steve thanks for the link Burning chute extraction webbing! Flip! And oh wow! Glad you made it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Yes steve that is a scary story to say the least ! I am glad you made it mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 There's also a Sabre volume which concentrates solely on the RAF's use of the jet. And a Swift one. They are indeed very good. I got more reference photos from the Barracuda volume than every other source added together. Re falling from 600', I entirely agree, Steve. I ditched in a semi-controlled way (one engine still doing its best!) from 40' and it seemed to take an age to hut the water. 600' doesn't bear thinking about in a spinning ex-helicopter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 And a Swift one. They are indeed very good. I got more reference photos from the Barracuda volume than every other source added together. There's also a Sabre volume which concentrates solely on the RAF's use of the jet. These are great books; history of the development and use of the aircraft, stories from those who flew and maintained them, lots of great pictures and a bundle of profiles. Mainly FAA types but at least one other in the Hunter, which may have FAA references but it's the one I don't have. Is there a recommended purveyor of these books? Also: Strike up the band! One of my favourite films ever. What does it say about me that I preferred Michael Caine to Stanley Baker? Nothing good, I'm sure. Speaking of the era, Winston got a present today: No, not the hedgepig socks, he's had those for ages, subjective time. Kipling! I read him "How the Elephant got his trunk", because one ought to start on a high note, though my favourites by ol' Rudyard are The Convoy Escort from "Epitaphs of the War" or his wrathful "The Children" -- had he not hated Churchill, they could have been powerful allies against appeasement in the thirties. The kit, anyhoo, is not slotting together so well now that it's crammed with noseweight -- I think the superglue subtly deforms the shape and robs the plastic of elasticity. I'm sure there'll be sanding and filing ahead. Lots of it. My Aerofax Valiant book arrived today, however, and cleared up a few minor mysteries. One that persists is the sort of long ropey blister along the port side of the cockpit, seen here: Was it present on all production aircraft or added later? Sorry about the lack of bants, I only have a little time in the evenings now, and Winston's mum likes to watch Criminal Minds (the true crime, against humanity, is the dialogue) and speak to a nominal adult before collapsing. Very glad you survived, Fritag, it would have been a horrible, senseless loss -- though I think the cause of deterrence a worthy one -- as were the losses of so many dedicated young men and women during the long cold war, before the great qualities that had already taken them so far had time to fully mature. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyverns4 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 IIRC, it was part of the plumbing for the IFR equipment. The massed intelligentsia here will no doubt be along with much more and fuller info.Excellent reading material and those socks, ! Christian, exiled to the dark side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Y'see, there's a significant benefit to being a glider pilot... Provided the aircraft started out that way, of course. My father once told me he'd flown a couple of gliders but never taken off in one; seems the Hawker Hunter's Avon engine had a nasty habit of flaming out at the slightest excuse. Speaking of the era, Winston got a present today: Kipling! I read him "How the Elephant got his trunk", because one ought to start on a high note, though my favourites by ol' Rudyard are The Convoy Escort from "Epitaphs of the War" or his wrathful "The Children" -- had he not hated Churchill, they could have been powerful allies against appeasement in the thirties. The kit, anyhoo, is not slotting together so well now that it's crammed with noseweight -- I think the superglue subtly deforms the shape and robs the plastic of elasticity. Starting wee Winston as you mean him to go on? Don't know what the Stateside equivalent of Teletubbies or In The Night Garden is but I'm afraid it will be inevitable PC. An irritating but important phase they, thus by proxy you as well, must go through. Nice to see the Valiant growing rapidly as well. I suspect the heat generated by said glue as it cures coupled with the weight of all that lead will have conspired to deform the plastic around the nose. Sure you'll master it though. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) This has to take the honour of being the most diverse thread I've come across yet .....where to begin ? PC, you'll find that you need to 'adjust' the fuselage braces to get everything to line up properly as the fit isn't the greatest, though I suspect this news be too late in coming. As for the nose, how much CA did you use ? Too much will certainly tighten up the area and cause the whole thing to go rigid. I place all the lead into a small plastic tub and fit that rather than glue it directly onto the plastic. As Christian of the dark side says the 'long ropey thing' is the external plumbing course for the IFR and was very much a bolt on accessory being retrofitted from 1959, your aircraft doesn't need it. Eric Morgan's Aerofax book is a great reference tome with everything you need. As for the perils of aviation I think yesterday's sad event in Suffolk highlights just what a dangerous game flying can be....as a RRU paramedic I've been to more than my fair share of serious military aircraft incidents and dealt with the horrendous aftermath. I try to avoid TV (especially the 'news') much preferring to listen to music when whiling away the hours and select my entertainment from on-line sources, (no not that !), though I rather enjoyed Sherlock when it was aired. The Mem feels at home with Downton Abbey as she says it takes her back to the glory days of exploitation and relaxes her after a hard days knitting. Zulu...great film.. Edited October 22, 2015 by general melchett 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Good to see the Valiant progressing undeterred by the free-improv that PC's thread has engendered I envy Winston his first exposure to Kipling (et al.) I reckon Dad needs to start reading him 'Kim' asap (with all due post-modern acknowledgement of the unaccaptableness of imperial ambition). Actually it's time for a re-read myself (with all due post-modern acknowledgment etc. - but it's still a cracking read). I was gonna guess (in that "me, me sir" sort of way) that the long ropey thing was to do with the inflight refuelling. But I knew we was really just waiting for the General to opine definitively on the matter Re falling from 600', I entirely agree, Steve. I ditched in a semi-controlled way (one engine still doing its best!) from 40' and it seemed to take an age to hut the water. 600' doesn't bear thinking about in a spinning ex-helicopter I was mulling over your ditching episode as I wrote that post actually Crisp; thinking on whether the fact that you were flying (fighting!) the aircraft throughout would have distracted the mind somewhat from the potential disaster of it? I think it might have done but I speculate only....... Tis true I wos lightly toasted sitting in the over-illuminated cockpit mulling over the flying characteristics of the bits of the jag-wire that remained attached to the seat. But only lightly so and only the skin that weren't covered by the gear. So the wrists, face not covered by the O2 mask and neck. Surprisingly superficial tho'. The back of my neck caught it the worse and so I was grounded for about a month - cos I couldn't turn my head properly to the left and right till the scabs fell orf. All-in-all got off exceptionally lightly. Sort of mid 80's version of a facial chemical peel? Be kind cool if I could say that it finally sorted out the residual teenage acne............Hmmm. Might add that to the oral history (unless it was already part of the tale I told you Andy). Very glad you survived, Fritag, it would have been a horrible, senseless loss -- though I think the cause of deterrence a worthy one -- as were the losses of so many dedicated young men and women during the long cold war, before the great qualities that had already taken them so far had time to fully mature. Dunno about senseless PC - and not sure about dedicated either . I always thought that just doing it made sense (on an individual basis) in it's own terms - irrespective of the military or political aims (speaking personally of course). Wot I mean is that it's young folks being allowed (nay - being paid!) to do what they love. I wos never very military minded and just wanted to fly. End-of motivation really. The Cold War was simply the temporal context for me. As for the perils of aviation I think yesterday's sad event in Suffolk highlights just what a dangerous game flying can be....as a RRU paramedic I've been to more than my fair share of serious military aircraft incidents and dealt with the horrendous aftermath. Don't envy you that in the slightest Andy. Edited October 22, 2015 by Fritag 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Wot I mean is that it's young folks being allowed (nay - being paid!) to do what they love. I wos never very military minded and just wanted to fly. End-of motivation really. The Cold War was simply the temporal context for me. And it is as it always was. My son in law was on the repatriation party on Tuesday for his friend lost in the Puma crash in Afghan last week. He still wouldn't change his job for anything else.... K 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 So true Steve, along that vein my cousin Vaughn lost several friends during his stint flying the Harrier GR.1 at Wittering ..they accepted that it was a newly developed concept and all the inherent dangers that came with it. Thankfully he never had any serious incidents with the aircraft himself but saw several that got into real trouble in those early days. On a personal level I'm just thankful that I swopped shifts with a colleague the day poor Sean Cunningham was ejected from his RA Hawk on the flightline at Scampton, I was rostered to standby there that day...just glad I didn't, the whole thing sounded quite horrific !) PC, This ancient magazine scan shows the very Heath Robinson IFR gubbins, the aircraft was the second trials tanker WZ390...still in HSS. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 What a cracking pic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 And it is as it always was. My son in law was on the repatriation party on Tuesday for his friend lost in the Puma crash in Afghan last week. He still wouldn't change his job for anything else.... K Indeed. Of the 12 RN guys who started flying training with me, 4 are dead. 1 was killed in a motorbike crash (cos if you can fly a military aircraft, you can control any piece of screaming machinery, can't you? Stands to reason!), 1 in a Gazelle (wire strike in Wales as an instructor), 1 a Harrier T4 on hold-over, and 1 flew a Sea King into the sea on a filthy night. There but for the grace of God, and RIP all of them. But none of us would have changed profession for anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Seems trite to 'like' something that mentions the death of colleagues but it's for the final sentiment Crisp... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeronut Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 General, The IFR pipework may look a little Heath Robinson, but running it externally to the crew compartment would have removed the complication of having it in double walled pipework without joints as AvP 970 would have required. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 OK, I'll ask... "IFR"?? To me it means Instrument Flight Rules but that can't be it. Infra-Red? Nope. In-flight Refuelling? That sounds plausible. They look like pipes and do line up with the probe. I've answered my own question haven't I? Just ignore me, sorry. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Sorry, I should have mentioned that it was done that way by necessity. As you say it would have required some serious reworking to run it through internally, actually I think it looks quite neat compared to other aircraft with bolt-on accessories.... Ced...no, no, yes and yes...in that order Edited October 23, 2015 by general melchett 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amblypygid Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I have little or nothing to contribute to this thread, but I'd like to say how interesting it all is (from the modelling to the oral histories to the Valiant plumbing). It has also made it abundantly obvious how dangerous even peacetime military aviation was/is (and reading a history of GCHQ has also opened my eyes this week to the number of aircraft shot down by the Soviets in the late 40s and early 50s). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 I have little or nothing to contribute to this thread, but I'd like to say how interesting it all is ... Don't worry, I'm in the same boat and I don't let it slow me much. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 General, The IFR pipework may look a little Heath Robinson, but running it externally to the crew compartment would have removed the complication of having it in double walled pipework without joints as AvP 970 would have required. And, just maybe, had they done something similar with Nimrod, it might still be in service? (unless replaced by MRA4 in a perfect world of course!) K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper_city Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Only just seen this build Edward. Like Winston it's looking all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 OK, I'll ask... "IFR"?? To me it means Instrument Flight Rules Ced, To those of us that fly/flew Her Majesty's aircraft, IFR does indeed mean Instrument Flight Rules. The term we use for in flight refueling is AAR (Air to Air Refueling). Hope that helps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 And, just maybe, had they done something similar with Nimrod, it might still be in service? Despite Haddon-Cave, the problem with MR2 was not the AAR per sé. Had the prohibition on high pressure refueling not been overturned or had the prohibition on refuelling behind Tristar not been overturned, or had the SCP not been running (Suplementary Cooling Pack) then XV230 would not have been lost and I wouldn't have lost a very good friend. It's funny (funny peculiar, not funny hah-hah); I was at the National Arboretum a couple of years ago, I was fully prepared to see my Brother's name on the Memorial Wall - I'd come to terms with his death, it was over 30 years ago. What I wasn't prepared for was, when I saw the names etched there, just how many friends I'd lost over the years. I guess you don't 'forget', you put it to the back of your mind and carry on. Kind of putting them in Limbo... Even flying Albert meant you could lose friends. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I can't 'like' that Debs, but it's a very emotive post & I get exactly what you mean.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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