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Spitfire Mk.I X4382 from No.602 Squadron with wavy leading edge camo


Basilisk

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This picture was published in the September issue of FlyPast, showing the whole wavy leading edge camo.

074-602SQDN.jpg

But is it really camo? I would think that the aircraft was delivered with the normal painted leading edge an that the change happened on unit level. But why. On the picture it looks like it was added later.

Does anyone have a clue how this came about?

Cheers, Peter

Edited by Basilisk
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Yep, the one in the title. Sorry, I was a bit in a rush last night. It is BoB veteran X4382 LO-G from No 602 Squadron and the picture was taken at Westhampnett in late 1940 as there are no leaves on the trees.

According to Spitfire Mark I/II Aces, this aircraft was flown by 11 kill ace Pilot Officer Hanbury, using it to destroy a Bf 110 near Beachy Head on 15 September 1940, half a Ju 88 over Tangmere on 21 September and a 2nd Ju 88 on 30 September near Selsey-Bembridge. In December, the aircraft was passed to No 610 Squadron for a few month before becoming an OTU aircraft. It was struck off charge in January 1945.

The picture below is the same aircraft photographed from the side.

602sqdn-spit1.jpg

And here another shot taken at the same time as the head-on picture.

Here's another image via Sandy Johnstone of that Spitfire. I have said before that the only fault with it is that Airfix missed the personal emblem painted on it, but I understand that it was included on one of the Xtradecal sheets.

2014-10-20_1_zpslw3mmefo.jpg

Cheers, Peter

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I know, but there is no mentioning about the camo on the leading edge. In addition, the squadron letters are too wide - a typical Xtradecal effort badly researched. There is a perfect side-on picture of this aircraft and they still managed to get it wrong.

Cheers, Peter

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  • 4 years later...
On 10/14/2015 at 5:49 AM, Basilisk said:

Yep, the one in the title. Sorry, I was a bit in a rush last night. It is BoB veteran X4382 LO-G from No 602 Squadron and the picture was taken at Westhampnett in late 1940 as there are no leaves on the trees.

According to Spitfire Mark I/II Aces, this aircraft was flown by 11 kill ace Pilot Officer Hanbury, using it to destroy a Bf 110 near Beachy Head on 15 September 1940, half a Ju 88 over Tangmere on 21 September and a 2nd Ju 88 on 30 September near Selsey-Bembridge. In December, the aircraft was passed to No 610 Squadron for a few month before becoming an OTU aircraft. It was struck off charge in January 1945.

The picture below is the same aircraft photographed from the side.

602sqdn-spit1.jpg

And here another shot taken at the same time as the head-on picture.

Cheers, Peter


Bit late on this one! Thanks to @AndyL for those other pictures, great to see different pictures of 602 aircraft (any others would be most welcome!!)

 

I did ask Airfix’s artist about the personal emblem, it wasn’t missed as such, but left off as they couldn’t establish what it actually was., and rather than put an inaccurate decal on, the left it off.

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This looks like the lower surfaces have been repainted. Not only the wavy camouflage on the wing leading edge, but also the lower cowling/tank on the nose has been painted up to where they join the 'cheek' cowlings. The cowling camouflage typically came down slightly over that lower cowling/tank area when first manufactured. 

 

Refer post 13 below

Edited by Peter Roberts
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Quote

X4382 Ia 1119 EA MIII FF 6-9-40 6MU 7-9-40 602S 10-9-40 610S 14-12-40 53OTU 3-3-41 412S 19-7-41 58OTU 7-8-41 Scottish Aviation 23-1-42 RNAS Arbroath 4-9-42 808S Machrihanish 3 to 11-11-42 880S from 1-12-43 Retd RAF at 45MU 10-9-44 SOC 26-1-45

I wondered if the wavy leading edge might be due to unit/MU application of Sky (or similar) but from the date,  not only should X4382 have left the factory in Sky undersides,  but also with standard under wing roundels. 

 

As best i can make out, X4382 has very small roundels out near the wing tips, maybe 30 inch.   

074-602SQDN.jpg&key=7a91db0bd126a823f339

 

most odd!

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Troy and Peter,

 

I have strong doubts that the aircraft in the head on shot is X4382? What is the source of that info? I don't have that issue of Flypast so can't check the original source.

 

Peter (Basilisk) stated that the head on shot was taken at the same time as the side shot of X4382 that he posted. That is clearly not the case. In the head on shot the main wheels are in shadow - in the side shot they are in sunlight. The prop is positioned differently in each shot. The tail wheel is at different angles in each shot. The trolley-acc is in a different position in each shot.

 

I agree with your, and Peter's (Roberts), hypothesis about a repaint from the earlier black/white under surfaces is correct, but are we trying to compare apples and oranges here. I would like to see some positive confirmation that the head on shot is of X4382.

 

Too many Peters in this thread!!

 

Cheers,

Peter M

 

@Troy Smith

@Peter Roberts

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3 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

I wondered if the wavy leading edge might be due to unit/MU application of Sky (or similar) but from the date,  not only should X4382 have left the factory in Sky undersides,  but also with standard under wing roundels. 

 

As best i can make out, X4382 has very small roundels out near the wing tips, maybe 30 inch.   

074-602SQDN.jpg&key=7a91db0bd126a823f339

 

most odd!

 

That'll be 6MU. According to the November 1982 Scale Aircraft Modelling article on Spitfires, No. 6MU favoured a 25" roundel on the undersides, centred 18" from the wingtip. I've seen it a few times before.

 

31145814488_490e8fbd70_b.jpg

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Magpie 22 raises a very good question. Are they the same a/c? The lower wing roundel looks similar between the side on and head on shots, but obviously not definitive. The points made by Magpie 22 regards differences in the two photos are valid. Perhaps the photos were taken on two different occasions? The question remains.

 

However, the a/c in all three photos posted here have been repainted on their lower surfaces, when you compare the upper to lower surface dividing line on the cowling, versus typical manufactured demarcation. Still not definitive in confirming they are photos of the same a/c (side on vs head on). refer post 13 below

 

The camouflage of this a/c in the two side on shots are hard to reconcile in the two photos in the post by Peter (Basilisk) in Post 3, but with careful comparison you can just make out the similarities. Another of the many cautions looking at B/W photos. The head on shot suggests that the demarcation on the port (left) cowl is a bit different to that of the two side on shots to my eye, but the angle of the head on shot makes this a bit ambiguous.

 

Edited by Peter Roberts
correction to post
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Mark, thank you. You have certainly enlightened me! My understanding was that ALL Mk I Spitfires had that extended lower upper surface camouflage on the cowlings, but this is obviously incorrect. Do you have a time/serial for when this simplification happened?

 

If not repainted, this raises the question of why the wavy leading edge demarcation on this a/c. Do you have an explanation or hypothesis for this?

Edited by Peter Roberts
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If I were to hazard a guess I would say the lower demarcation was used up until the factory changed from black and white undersides to sky.   So R and X series probably had the higher position.  The wavy edged camouflage on the 602 Sqn Spitfire is also seen on Cyril Babbage's X4541 LO-M which overturned on 12 October.  It definitely hasn't been overpainted at the MU as the trestle stencilling is still intact so it was probably a squadron experiment, maybe similar to the Me109s that had the underside colour extended up and over the leading edges.

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19 minutes ago, Mark Postlethwaite said:

The wavy edged camouflage on the 602 Sqn Spitfire is also seen on Cyril Babbage's X4541 LO-M which overturned on 12 October.  It definitely hasn't been overpainted at the MU as the trestle stencilling is still intact

 

this is X4541, I can't really see a wavy leading edge, or any stencilling, or is there another photo? 

 

3EFF5F0600000578-4385842-image-a-7_14914

 

Quote

X4541 Ia 1170EA MIII FF 21-9-40 24MU 21-9-40 602S 2-10-40 damaged by Ju88 nr Beachy Head Sgt Babbage safe 12-10-40 AST SOC FH6.50

 

I must see if I can find out where in Iford this was.  (it's about 3 miles from Lewes BTW

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The wavy edge is not as pronounced on X4541 but it is there so somebody clearly made a conscious decision to alter the standard camouflage on at least two aircraft.  I doubt it would be the MU as I've never seen it on other squadron's aircraft.  There is another photo of the Spitfire from the side but I can't see a way of including it in this post.  Of course it could have just simply been one bored erk's way of retouching some chipped paint!

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2 hours ago, Mark Postlethwaite said:

There is another photo of the Spitfire from the side but I can't see a way of including it in this post.

Needs to be on an online photo host.   I can host it if you can email it too me.   I'm interested in this as it's local to me.

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13 hours ago, Mark Postlethwaite said:

 ..so it was probably a squadron experiment, ...

If so, I don't recall Sandy Johnstone mentioning it in his book and he's usually pretty good on including the sort of anoraky detail we modellers love to know.  Not that that proves anything: he may just have thought it not worth mentioning.

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